[What If] Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

[Boll Weevil]

I just got CU:NOTW and, for the first time, my campaign world will veer off from the official Champions Universe. I think it diminishes the tragedy of the Battle of Detroit to have it otherwise. As always, your mileage may vary and this is not a criticism of Hero's choice to keep the bad doctor on staff.

 

In my world, Dr Destroyer either died or survived as a shell of what he was. What I would like to explore then is the resulting power vacuum created in his absence. With his vast resources in place, I think it would start with Gigaton and Destroyer's own organization. With the boss gone, how will his "loyal" generals usurp power from Dr D's demise?

[caris]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

I just got CU:NOTW and, for the first time, my campaign world will veer off from the official Champions Universe. I think it diminishes the tragedy of the Battle of Detroit to have it otherwise. As always, your mileage may vary and this is not a criticism of Hero's choice to keep the bad doctor on staff.

 

In my world, Dr Destroyer either died or survived as a shell of what he was. What I would like to explore then is the resulting power vacuum created in his absence. With his vast resources in place, I think it would start with Gigaton and Destroyer's own organization. With the boss gone, how will his "loyal" generals usurp power from Dr D's demise?

 

The problem is that Gigaton won't "usurp" the power. Gigaton is the perfect Beta. He is completely campable of leading troops in battle and handling tactical situations. What he lacks is the vision and drive to take on strategic level decisions. With Destroyer gone, Gigaton will either going to grab as much cash as he can and retire some where, or look for a new boss. Top contender would probably be Warlord. Their common military background should give them a fairly good place to start working from. Hopefully Warlord would be smart enough to keep Gigaton separate from the War Machine and set Gigaton up with his own division.

 

From there it gets murky where Gigaton could/would go.

 

Takofanes and Mechanon would not give Gigaton a chance.

Istvatha is a possibility, if he could reach her.

I don't see Menton or Tellios changing their modus operandi to include Gigaton and Destroids.

Gravitar might see the value of adding on these kinds of resources, but I doubt it.

Eurostar would most likely have a problem with Gigaton's nationality, and he might have a problem with their ideaology.

Viper has possiblities, but they definitely wouldn't use him in North America or Europe.

Coil is another possibility, but I'm not sure that King Cobra would trust someone that he didn't have better control over.

I think that most of the realy mystical ones: DEMON, Tyranon, Skarn, Crowns of Krim wouldn't be interested.

Groups like Grab and the Ultimates really don't operate on the kind of level that squadrons of Destroids would be appropriate.

Psi is too much like Menton in terms of methodology.

IHA would not take a "super freak" like him, but might try to acquire Destroid technology.

 

I've kind of reached the limit of my KS: CU Big Bads.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

Given that Destroyer's resources took a major hit before and during Detroit, Gigaton will probably have less to give than otherwise might be obvious.

 

IIRC, Rakshasa was picked up post-Detroit, so, he remains out there as a solo villain.

 

With Destroyer gone, Mentalla has less incentive to stay with Eurostar.

 

With Destroyer gone, Menton has more freedom of activity.

 

With Destroyer gone, one major enemy of VIPER is caput, so they have more available resources.

[Vondy]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

Another option is a sort of alliance that agrees to run Destroyer's Empire. It would be contentious and prone to factions and infighting, but it could keep the organization as a whole in line, and be the basis for a mega-villain group on the order of something akin to DC levels, as opposed to what the CU currently has. It could be that Gigaton and Menton agree to join forces at the top of the pyramid, while looking for some major bruisers to bring in for hitting power: Firewing, Grond, etc. Whether or not this League of Doom shtick works is entirely up to how you arrange the events, interplay, and the like.

 

Something else to consider is the old day of the destroyer adventure, which featured a kidnapped reporter who had been brainwashed and put inside destroyers armor (and was terminally ill because of it). The death of destroyer doesn't just mean a power vacuum in his organization. It means a load of super-weaponry on an unparalled scale being ripe for the taking. You could just have a minion come out of the shadows and don the suit - or more scarily - Gigaton himself. Or - the ultimate nightmare - MENTON IN DESTROYERS ARMOR.

 

You thought destroyer was nasty... well, let me tell you, once I ran a "what if..." style adventure based on the premise of Destroyer's dies and someone gets the suit. The new Destroyer's name was Freddy... "Quick, to the Foxbat-Destroyer-Mobile!" Okay, not what you were looking for, but maybe some of the other stuff works.

[OddHat]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

Another option is a sort of alliance that agrees to run Destroyer's Empire. It would be contentious and prone to factions and infighting, but it could keep the organization as a whole in line, and be the basis for a mega-villain group on the order of something akin to DC levels, as opposed to what the CU currently has. It could be that Gigaton and Menton agree to join forces at the top of the pyramid, while looking for some major bruisers to bring in for hitting power: Firewing, Grond, etc. Whether or not this League of Doom shtick works is entirely up to how you arrange the events, interplay, and the like.

 

Something else to consider is the old day of the destroyer adventure, which featured a kidnapped reporter who had been brainwashed and put inside destroyers armor (and was terminally ill because of it). The death of destroyer doesn't just mean a power vacuum in his organization. It means a load of super-weaponry on an unparalled scale being ripe for the taking. You could just have a minion come out of the shadows and don the suit - or more scarily - Gigaton himself. Or - the ultimate nightmare - MENTON IN DESTROYERS ARMOR.

 

You thought destroyer was nasty... well, let me tell you, once I ran a "what if..." style adventure based on the premise of Destroyer's dies and someone gets the suit. The new Destroyer's name was Freddy... "Quick, to the Foxbat-Destroyer-Mobile!" Okay, not what you were looking for, but maybe some of the other stuff works.

 

Repped.

 

I was also thinking that Menton is the natural heir to Destroyer in this situation. He knows the organization, and he's a natural manipulator. I see him doing an Anthony post Ides of March act (the real Anthony, not the HBO Version). He steps up to all of Destroyer's supporters, tells them what a god among men their master was, fakes evidence in support of the claim that he was Destroyer's chosen heir, and holds control over as much of the organization as he can. Probably takes the time to create a frontman dupe as well, just in case he needs to feed someone to the wolves (maybe Prof.Muerte).

[John T]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

Repped.

 

I was also thinking that Menton is the natural heir to Destroyer in this situation. He knows the organization, and he's a natural manipulator. I see him doing an Anthony post Ides of March act (the real Anthony, not the HBO Version). He steps up to all of Destroyer's supporters, tells them what a god among men their master was, fakes evidence in support of the claim that he was Destroyer's chosen heir, and holds control over as much of the organization as he can.

Given Menton's ability with Mental Illusion... WHO'D EVER NEED TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE?!

[Captain Xenon]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

What if doc destroyer had a backup plan for his death? a masterwork of long-term planning, that would take place when he was confirmed dead?

 

What if Destroyer had a son?

 

So, the Son of Destroyer is kidnapped. he wasnt aware of who he was... but his abscence does not go unnoticed. where plot goes from there, depends on what the plan was, and how the kid reacts to it.

 

other than that... i expect on DD's death, a lot of troops will desert. no use fighting for a dead mastermind after all. Several other organizations and villians will probably take over various assests, leaving destroyer loyalists with little or nothing...

 

hmm, that would be an awesome background for a new hero, wouldnt it? left with a crumbling legacy of a supervillian, salvaging what he can to become a hero.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

Given Menton's ability with Mental Illusion... WHO'D EVER NEED TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE?!

 

Indeed. IMHO this would be the most logical outcome. In fact this development wouldn't necessarily change anything in the official Champions Universe as far as anyone else knows. Menton would have taken that decade since Dr. D died to consolidate his hold over the organization, announcing his "return" just as the original DD did. Menton would still be believed to have gone rogue from Destroyer, so people would assume they're working at cross purposes. And you just know that the "Menton" captured in Champions Universe: News Of The World will turn out to be a clone or robot.

[incrdbil]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

Repped.

 

I was also thinking that Menton is the natural heir to Destroyer in this situation. He knows the organization, and he's a natural manipulator. I see him doing an Anthony post Ides of March act (the real Anthony, not the HBO Version). He steps up to all of Destroyer's supporters, tells them what a god among men their master was, fakes evidence in support of the claim that he was Destroyer's chosen heir, and holds control over as much of the organization as he can. Probably takes the time to create a frontman dupe as well, just in case he needs to feed someone to the wolves (maybe Prof.Muerte).

 

"After the massive payments, all the stolen and transferred data, Telios finally had come through. A new body. another century in his prime. The true barrier was that the long 18 months in the vat would have him helpless; the only way he could remain safe from his enemies or his servants was to find a way to have someone else take up the mantle of the Destroyer for a time. No one would voluntarily do this who was truly capable, but the Doctor had other ideas..."

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

Indeed. IMHO this would be the most logical outcome. In fact this development wouldn't necessarily change anything in the official Champions Universe as far as anyone else knows. Menton would have taken that decade since Dr. D died to consolidate his hold over the organization' date=' announcing his "return" just as the original DD did. Menton would still be believed to have gone rogue from Destroyer, so people would assume they're working at cross purposes. And you just know that the "Menton" captured in [i']Champions Universe: News Of The World[/i] will turn out to be a clone or robot.

 

I have to agree with the Lord on this one. Menton seems way too powerful to be fooled by Rakshasha and too cautious to not make sure those close to him weren't completely loyal or mindwiped into being loyal. So that leaves two options: Either that wasn't the real Menton or..... he WANTED to be captured. Perhaps he's found a way to utilize his powers from his subconscious...which would make hot sleep worthless?

 

Rob

[assault]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

The problem is that Gigaton won't "usurp" the power. Gigaton is the perfect Beta. He is completely campable of leading troops in battle and handling tactical situations. What he lacks is the vision and drive to take on strategic level decisions. With Destroyer gone' date=' Gigaton will either going to grab as much cash as he can and retire some where, or look for a new boss.[/quote']

 

Another possibility: Gigaton tries to usurp the power, and can't handle it. The organisation (already heavily damaged) begins to crumble. Missions fail, schisms appear, rival organisations try to move in, and so on.

 

A good opportunity to bring RAVEN into the CU, if you wanted to, or to revive Terror, Inc.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

Indeed. IMHO this would be the most logical outcome. In fact this development wouldn't necessarily change anything in the official Champions Universe as far as anyone else knows. Menton would have taken that decade since Dr. D died to consolidate his hold over the organization' date=' announcing his "return" just as the original DD did. Menton would still be believed to have gone rogue from Destroyer, so people would assume they're working at cross purposes. And you just know that the "Menton" captured in [i']Champions Universe: News Of The World[/i] will turn out to be a clone or robot.

 

I believe Dr Destroyer retained contact with his organization; he just had them all hunker down and not do anything for years. So, Menton couldn't take it over, because that'd require coming onto hostile territory thats still against him.

 

I would also assume that Dr Destroyer went big with the Anti-Menton propaganda, so any post-real-death takeover would require either considerable effort or indirection.

[Peregrine]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

I believe Dr Destroyer retained contact with his organization; he just had them all hunker down and not do anything for years. So, Menton couldn't take it over, because that'd require coming onto hostile territory thats still against him.

 

I would also assume that Dr Destroyer went big with the Anti-Menton propaganda, so any post-real-death takeover would require either considerable effort or indirection.

 

I thought the assumption was that DD is actually dead... Menton could move in on the organization using illusions to appear to be DD, and over time wean them off of the anti-Menton thing (if he wanted to go that far).

 

And the fun possibility is that he did all of that (after DD's Final Death at Detroit)... and got punk'd and captured anyway...

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

I thought the assumption was that DD is actually dead... Menton could move in on the organization using illusions to appear to be DD' date=' and over time wean them off of the anti-Menton thing (if he wanted to go that far).[/quote']

 

Remember that at the time of Destroyer's apparent death, Menton was still counted among his followers - he only broke away because the Doctor had to keep a low profile to maintain the illusion of his death, and couldn't afford to draw attention by going after his erstwhile servant. So there would be no "anti-Menton thing" among DD's followers at that time.

[Balabanto]

Re: [What If] Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

At one point, Doctor Destroyer did die in one of my many games. (I may have to retcon this out or change the character when I publish, I don't know). He took so much knockback that his internal casing cracked, and he was dying of radiation poisoning. Reasoning that he had failed, he decided to live up to his name. The heroes tracked him to the bottom of the Marianas Trench and fought him. One of them used magic to sacrifice their life to remove Destroyer from the planet so he would not explode in a high-tritium area, and crack the earth in half.

 

It was very heroic and very cool. The most fun was running "The Quest for the Secret Technology Lab of Doctor Destroyer." They didn't like that, but it was tough.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

Remember that at the time of Destroyer's apparent death' date=' Menton was still counted among his followers - he only broke away because the Doctor had to keep a low profile to maintain the illusion of his death, and couldn't afford to draw attention by going after his erstwhile servant. So there would be no "anti-Menton thing" among DD's followers at that time.[/quote']

 

Ah, sorry, talking about two different points in the timeline.

 

In the immediate post Detroit era, canon, Menton couldn't just take over the organization, because Destroyer was still around, and the organization was still taking his orders.

 

OTOH, in a "Destroyer died in Detroit" timeline, both Menton and Mentalla are still there in the chain of command. Also means Eurostar isn't going to form the same way.

[incrdbil]

Re: [What If] Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

Here's a mean thought.

 

A bureaucracy never dies.

 

Until had a division to deal with the Doctor. But now, No doctor, no division. Loss of jobs, prestige, and power for those who led what was once the cutting edge, highest priority branch of UNTIL.

 

Some individual in UNTIL decides the 'good' products of the anti-destroyer division are too useful to be disbanded; there are other menaces out there, and only the elite members of the anti-DD are cutting edge enough to handle it. The skills they honed in preparing to fight Destroyer made them a potent force, too good to be disbanded and mingled with those inferior lesser divisions!

 

But the bean counters wont listen to him....he goes to the secure room, the secret data pad to the doctors hidden lab he never turned over, and makes his call. For the good of mankind he takes on the mantle of the Destroyer in secret, to preserve his agency.

 

And the first step down the road of good intentions is taken.....

[ghost-angel]

Re: [What If] Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

On a less serious note...

 

Rise Of The Foxbat.

[assault]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

Remember that at the time of Destroyer's apparent death' date=' Menton was still counted among his followers[/quote']

 

In which case Menton takes over the organisation, purging anyone who is a threat to him.

 

I'm not sure that Menton being in charge is any less scary than the Doctor...

[Metaphysician]

Re: [What If] Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

Well, he's got much less science skills, so suddenly, the support scientists of Destroyer are vastly more critical. Also means alot of the really good tech gets mothballed, as its now 'use it, lose it, but no replacing it.'

[incrdbil]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

In which case Menton takes over the organisation, purging anyone who is a threat to him.

 

 

The joy of being Menton is never having to say you are sorry, or purge anyone. He just gives them a little attitude adjustment.

[assault]

Re: Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

The joy of being Menton is never having to say you are sorry' date=' or purge anyone. He just gives them a little attitude adjustment.[/quote']

 

Unless he can't do that, for whatever reason. Those are the people/entities he would need to purge.

[Pariah]

Re: [What If] Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

On a less serious note...

 

Rise Of The Foxbat.

 

This would make one heck of a "What If" adventure. If it ever got written and published, I'd buy it.

[Boll Weevil]

Re: [What If] Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

In the case of Dr Destroyer's demise, is it possible Sennacherib would take over operations?

[Marcus Impudite]

Re: [What If] Dr Destroyer really did die. What now?

 

If Destroyer dies, and assuming his organization falls apart shortly thereafter, there's going to be a mad dash to claim the toys he left behind when he died. Numerous secret bases around the globe, huge arsenals of weapons and gadgets, killer robots, doomsday devices, and all his wealth; all of it up for grabs. Lots of would-be world conquerors would be salivating at the thought it all.