Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

[Susano]

Matt Bailey of the Inside Track offers a detailed analysis of Starship Enterprise casualties, particularly those sustained by crewmen in red shirts, with a formidable Power Point presentation to go with it

 

http://www.clicktracks.com/insidetrack/articles/kirk_analytics.php?source=nws072007

[Starwolf]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

Very interesting, he only failed to look at one thing that COULD be important...

 

Red shirts were security... roughly analagous to our marines or auxiliary security forces aboard IRL naval vessels. When looking at caualty rates, the rate among ground combat forces (marines, infantry, and others in direct combat) are necessarily higher than amongst other naval ratings (line officers, medical personnel, deck, and support personnel).

 

In addition when counting casualties he only counted Enterprise crew, I can offhand think of at least 4 episodes where entire federation starships were destroyed. The Omega Glory, The Tholian Web, The Doomsday Machine, and The Ultimate Computer.

[austenandrews]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

And people always ragged on Kirk for being a playboy. He was just looking after his crew!

[tancred]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

Isn't it true, though, that in the Original Series red shirts didn't indicate Security only, but also include Engineering and Ship's Services?

Both Scotty and Uhura wore red, but neither was security.

 

And I'm pretty sure that the "yellow" (actually gold) shirts were NOT Engineering but were Command track. Sulu, Chekov, and Kirk all wore gold shirts, as did nearly all the command officers seen in the series.

[shadowcat1313]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

starts a chorus of 50 Ways to Kill an Ensign

[Starwolf]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

Tancred is correct... red shirts included engineering and security. Which supports my contention that it is the security position which is inherantly more dangerous, rather than the engineering positions. The danger had little to do with the color of the shirt, instead it was the job involved.

 

For some really great fan movies based on TOS check this out...

 

http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/

 

[Inu]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

Very interesting, he only failed to look at one thing that COULD be important...

 

Red shirts were security... roughly analagous to our marines or auxiliary security forces aboard IRL naval vessels. When looking at caualty rates, the rate among ground combat forces (marines, infantry, and others in direct combat) are necessarily higher than amongst other naval ratings (line officers, medical personnel, deck, and support personnel).

 

In addition when counting casualties he only counted Enterprise crew, I can offhand think of at least 4 episodes where entire federation starships were destroyed. The Omega Glory, The Tholian Web, The Doomsday Machine, and The Ultimate Computer.

That's taking this altogether too seriously. ^_-

[Curufea]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

I've always wanted to see stats on casualties in Doctor Who actually - there have been a few episodes where every character except for the Doctor and his companion(s) have died. Horror at Fang Rock, for example.

[Badger]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

That's taking this altogether too seriously. ^_-

 

 

Not to mention how geeky I feel knowing Morgan Woodward who played Cpt. Tracy in Omega Glory also played Dr. Van Gelder in another episode. (Not to mention about 30 different guest characters on Gunsmoke)

 

Note: And Williams Shatner was also a guest villain on at least one episode of Gunsmoke.

[tkdguy]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy and Werner Klemperer (Col. Klink) were all guest stars in an episode of The Man from UNCLE (yes, the same episode). Shatner and Nimoy only had one scene together: Nimoy's character threatened Shatner's character and left.

[tomd1969]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

Very interesting, he only failed to look at one thing that COULD be important...

 

Red shirts were security... roughly analagous to our marines or auxiliary security forces aboard IRL naval vessels. When looking at caualty rates, the rate among ground combat forces (marines, infantry, and others in direct combat) are necessarily higher than amongst other naval ratings (line officers, medical personnel, deck, and support personnel).

 

In addition when counting casualties he only counted Enterprise crew, I can offhand think of at least 4 episodes where entire federation starships were destroyed. The Omega Glory, The Tholian Web, The Doomsday Machine, and The Ultimate Computer.

 

I'm sorry SW, but I think you're missing the point...

 

This isn't about an exhaustively researched analytic of the percentage of red-shirt deaths in ST:TOS; it's an example of an analytic and how one would present such an analytic. In the cited web-site, he talks about how PowerPoint would not be an appropriate vehicle to show this kind of data, and shows an example of how he feels it would be better represented. In fact, his first sentence is:

 

In my seminars, I enjoy teaching analytics because the fun is in finding effective and memorable methods to help people understand the concepts.

In other words, this isn't a page devoted to analyzing how many red-shirts die in a typical ST ep; instead, it's devoted to showing profs how they can use something students might recognize (such as ST, and the Red Shirt Phenomenon) to teach them something (in this case, Web Analytics).

[Clonus]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

Isn't it true, though, that in the Original Series red shirts didn't indicate Security only, but also include Engineering and Ship's Services?

Both Scotty and Uhura wore red, but neither was security.

 

And I'm pretty sure that the "yellow" (actually gold) shirts were NOT Engineering but were Command track. Sulu, Chekov, and Kirk all wore gold shirts, as did nearly all the command officers seen in the series.

 

Yes, many of the shipboard deaths were casualties in Engineering because it is first of all, the most dangerous section of the ship and it's the one that probably has the most personnel. But that doesn't have much bearing on his analysis of the effectiveness of Kirk liasons at reducing redshirt mortality. (Which is entirely valid of course, because Kirk liasons reduce the time in the script which could be used to kill people.)

[austenandrews]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

Unless you were a space-god (and sometimes if you were), engineering was where you went to take over the Enterprise. I think "leaping off the catwalk at an intruder" is required learning at the Engineering Academy.

[Inu]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

Unless you were a space-god (and sometimes if you were)' date=' engineering was where you went to take over the [i']Enterprise.[/i] I think "leaping off the catwalk at an intruder" is required learning at the Engineering Academy.

I guess that's why they updated the computer system for Next Gen, so you could control the whole ship from the drinks machine in 10-Forward, AND take a bunch of civilian hostages in the process!

 

Much more variety in hijacking types. Get some of the load off those poor engineering types.

[Zeropoint]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

Based on my own experience aboard the Carl Vinson, you'd HAVE to take over engineering to take over the ship. The bridge can send orders for steering and ring up bells (order engine speeds) but the steering can be switched to manual control easily, and the throttles are actually controlled from engineering, so that the reactor operator can give orders to the throttlemen. This is necessary to deal with the effects of large changes in steam demand on reactor power levels.

 

The point of this is that even if it's possible to control the ships engines and other systems from any networked computer terminal, like a drink machine in Ten Forward, it's going to be possible for the Engineering crew to switch to local control. At least, it SHOULD be.

 

They have to know something's up, though.

[Inu]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

Based on my own experience aboard the Carl Vinson, you'd HAVE to take over engineering to take over the ship. The bridge can send orders for steering and ring up bells (order engine speeds) but the steering can be switched to manual control easily, and the throttles are actually controlled from engineering, so that the reactor operator can give orders to the throttlemen. This is necessary to deal with the effects of large changes in steam demand on reactor power levels.

 

The point of this is that even if it's possible to control the ships engines and other systems from any networked computer terminal, like a drink machine in Ten Forward, it's going to be possible for the Engineering crew to switch to local control. At least, it SHOULD be.

 

They have to know something's up, though.

Oh please. Manual overrides are SO last millennium.

[Narratio]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

If the machine has no manual overrides. Do NOT collect the pink slip, leave it with the sales rep. As Scotty said in one of the TOS movies, the more plumbing they install, the easier it is to break.

[sinanju]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

Oh please. Manual overrides are SO last millennium.

 

Besides, it always made me laugh to see some dimwit on ST:The Nth Iteration announce, "switching to manual override" while poking helplessly at ANOTHER unresponsive switch on his high-tech electronic console.

 

No...manual override is when Col. Jack O'Neill goes down to the power room of the SGC and grabs hold of the honking huge Frankenstein-style knife switch and pulls it to cut power to the stargate.... Okay it didn't actually work, but at least they tried--and they used an actual manual switch to do it!

[Jaxom]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

Ok, granted I am late to the topic for a week off, but the real take-away here is that people who do statistical analysis today are so busy worrying about the message that they want to deliver that they cannot even answer the questions that they pose for themselves.

 

If the hypothesis is that wearing a red shirt and beaming down to the planet with Kirk is a death sentence, then the relevant data is how many red shirts survived beaming down to the planet with Kirk. There are, of course, interesting corollaries like the what happens to the landing party if there are no red shirts and what happens to red shirts if there is no landing party.

 

But the simplest answer to the question, what happens to red shirts who beam down, remains unanswered. We know how many die and in what circumstances but have no clue how many beam down and survive, rendering the answer to the fundamental hypothesis unreachable.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

If the machine has no manual overrides. Do NOT collect the pink slip' date=' leave it with the sales rep. As Scotty said in one of the TOS movies, the more plumbing they install, the easier it is to break.[/quote']

 

"The more they overtech the plumbin', the easier it is ta stop up the drain."

[Publius]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

I love Red Shirts!

 

You have the Pcs get attached to them, you know, with names and stuff. I'd say "pimp them out" but that would convey the wrong image to most folks, you know personalize them. Heck, the Red Shirts who they personalized were more effective, better shots and whatnot.

 

Then you offer the PCs bonus points to order their (now prized) Red Shirts in situations where they know the GM is going to kill/freeze/reduce them into stryofoam cubes and watch the angst.

[bobrunnicles]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

Perhaps explains why in ST:TMP they got rid of 'red-shirts' completely and actually issued security personnel with body armour (although you only actually see it in one or two quick scenes).

 

By ST:TWOK, of course, they are all wearing red shirts (well, jackets, and yes I know they had 'undershirts' which were used for the same purpose (I remember an at-time-very-svelte Kirstie Alley beaming up and changing from the landing party parka to the uniform jacket wearing a red undershirt) but I don't recall them being as obvious).

 

Just sayin' :)

[Vondy]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

I give you the definitive analysis: RED SHIRTS.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

I give you the definitive analysis: RED SHIRTS.

 

I just finished it (like, yesterday)... I strongly reccommend it to anyone who loves classic Star Trek, or TV Science Fiction in general. I intend to buy a copy to loan out to my sister, dad, and friends.

[Vondy]

Re: Analysis of the Red-Shirt Phenomenon in Star Trek

 

I just finished it (like' date=' yesterday)... I strongly reccommend it to anyone who loves classic Star Trek, or TV Science Fiction in general. I intend to buy a copy to loan out to my sister, dad, and friends.[/quote']

 

I'm writing a short fanfic story entitled "The Red Shirt." Its not a tongue-in-cheek deconstruction like the book, but it does star a Chief Petty Officer doing security duty on a Starfleet vessel.