Cuts through anything

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

Wolverine's claws and Black Knight's sword. Just two of the comic book items that can "cut through anything".

 

How would you build that? Even a 4d6K AP, Piercing wouldn't cut through anything.

 

As others have noted, these items that cut through anything don't actually cut through anything. Cap's shield blocks Wolvie's claws, for example. It's more unbreakable than his claws are sharp.

 

Penetrating (x6) would be a +3 advantage. That should cut through anything the GM desn't make absolutely certain is cut-resistant (6x Hardened is a lot).

 

From the GM perspective, if I told the player his 1d6 6x Penetrating KA would be able to cut through anything, then it would be able to cut through anything. If I don't want a "cut through anything" ability in my game, I would instead tell him "there are no absolutes in this game".

[ghost-angel]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

The absolute about absolutes is that they absolutely don't exist. Even in source material.

[Peregrine]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

Interestingly' date=' Single or Limited Author Narratives, like Fantasy novels, are where you generally find examples of stable absolutes like 'cuts through anything", once you enter the land of Open Author Narratives, like most comic books, those absolutes tend to wax and wane with the preferences and or Narrative needs of this iteration's Author.[/quote']

 

And I consider RPGs to be a near-ultimate example of Open Author Narratives, with the GM and players serving as the plural Authors. You could split a hair and say that, given the limited number of participants in an RPG, a specific campaign is not quite as Open as the above would indicate, but the key idea is that the GM is not / should not be a Single Author.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

I'd still say my original idea of double Penetrating would suffice 99% of the time. Not that many characters have Hardened to begin with...much less double Hardened or better. And it avoids the messy issues with NND.

 

Rob

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

I'd still say my original idea of double Penetrating would suffice 99% of the time. Not that many characters have Hardened to begin with...much less double Hardened or better. And it avoids the messy issues with NND.

 

Anything double hardened or better seems, to me, to have ben designed to intentionally override the Double Penetrating anyway.

 

Of course, we could go with a 1d6 KA, AVLD (+1 1/2; Resistant Mental Flash Defense), Does Bod (+1), Penetrating (+1/2).

 

Anyone with Resistant Hardened Mental Flash Defense clearly has this specific attack in mind.

[Patriot]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

Here is My take on it:

 

2d6 Hka

Indirect (+1/4)

(bypasses force walls and fields)

NND(+1) ( defense:being made of the same material as the weapon)

 

Cost:67 points

[nexus]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

Here's how I'd do it if I had too

 

HKA, AVLD vs Energy sfx defenses*, Does Body.

 

 

*Energy Shields and the like. Could also be vs Unobtanium and similar "indestructible" alloys.

[nexus]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

Here is My take on it:

 

2d6 Hka

Indirect (+1/4)

(bypasses force walls and fields)

NND(+1) ( defense:being made of the same material as the weapon)

 

Cost:67 points

 

Indirect doesn't by pass Force Field.

[Tachyon]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

Maybe something like this:

 

The Sword of Destruction: HKA 1 point, Penetrating x6 (+3), Indirect [passes through barriers] (+1/2), 0 END (+1), Autofire [10 shots] (+1) [Special Effect: one unstoppable hit, but the damage depends on accuracy], OAF (-1) plus Rapid HTH Autofire [to attack multiple targets] plus Precise Sprayfire II [The Ultimate Skill, page 86] plus 2-point CSLs x4, Only to determine the number of hits (-0)

 

The character makes one attack roll. If successful, it deals 5-10 points of damage. This doesn't work against targets with Hardened x6 rDEF, but against everything else...

 

Did somebody say overkill?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

Anyone with Resistant Hardened Mental Flash Defense clearly has this specific attack in mind.

 

My mentalist actually has that as part of her Psychic Force Field

[Prometheus]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

Isn’t this, to a considerable degree, campaign specific?

 

Taking the highest DEF listed in the 5ed (Tank, front armor) as a benchmark, then being able to overcome 20 DEF could arguable be a reasonable target. That doesn’t take into consideration what might exist in a particular campaign though- if Adamantium is 30 DEF, Hardened, then you’re aiming at a different level.

 

Something else to consider: “Cuts Through Anything” and “Obliterates On Contact” are, to most people, two different things. If you’re looking at punching a hole in a battleship, that’s very different that slicing it in two with one swipe.

 

With all that in mind, I’d look at Killing Attack, with enough Penetrating to do at least 1 BODY to anything that isn’t indestructible in the campaign. Personally, I’ve never seen any build with Hardened x2- but YMMV- so even 1d6 with Penetrating x2 could be enough to do 1 BODY to practically anything.

 

Now, if you're looking for a build that "Obliterates On Contact"... well, that's a different animal entirely.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

NND Does Body, define some things it doesn't cut thru, done.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

I really think it depends on what sort of attack one is attempting to model. Something like Wolverine's claws, based on sharp edged weapons with no special physics-defying qualities beyond the hardness of the material would strike me as a pretty straightforward Armor Piercing attack. Maybe a 3d6 x2 AP HKA or so, enough to cut through battleship steel with effort but not enough to pierce effectively indestructible materials.

 

For something like Nemesis' atom-wide sword or lightsabers, I'd say the NND [defense is Force Field] Does Body route is the way to go.

[phydaux]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

It's either Campaign Absolute Maximum in place' date=' or Writer's Fiat.[/quote']

 

This is a genera issue, not a rules issue.

 

You can't take everything writen in the pages of as comic book and treat it as The Word of the Lord. If you do that, then even fairly low powered characters like Daredevil & Moon Knight start weighing in at around 650 character points. Wolverine comes in around 1000, and Batman around 2500.

 

Comics are full of hyperbole. Hyperbole is an intentional exageration in order to illustrate a point. "Cut through anything" is in genera, and is pure hyperbole. 2d6+1 AP HKA, that's rules.

[pinecone]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

I'd still say my original idea of double Penetrating would suffice 99% of the time. Not that many characters have Hardened to begin with...much less double Hardened or better. And it avoids the messy issues with NND.

 

Rob

 

I agree, and I'd likely find a Penx2 attack less of a ballence issue than a NND: Does Body...

[Certified]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

Since I've seen a few builds being passed around I'll offer one up as well.

 

Zatoichi's Edge: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6-1, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Does BODY (+1), Attack Versus Limited Defense (Lack of Weakness; +1 1/2) (94 Active Points); OAF Unbreakable (-1)

 

Cost: 47 (94 Active Points)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

Since I've seen a few builds being passed around I'll offer one up as well.

 

Zatoichi's Edge: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6-1, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Does BODY (+1), Attack Versus Limited Defense (Lack of Weakness; +1 1/2) (94 Active Points); OAF Unbreakable (-1)

 

Cost: 47 (94 Active Points)

 

So an Automaton (with 0 END) wouldn't be able to use it?

[Certified]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

So an Automaton (with 0 END) wouldn't be able to use it?

 

in that sense can an Automation use any power that cost's End?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

in that sense can an Automation use any power that cost's End?

 

I was referring to the usual practice of selling back CON and buying all powers at 0 END for Automatons built with either the 'Cannot Be Stunned' or 'Takes No STUN' varieties of that ability.

[Certified]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

I was referring to the usual practice of selling back CON and buying all powers at 0 END for Automatons built with either the 'Cannot Be Stunned' or 'Takes No STUN' varieties of that ability.

 

I guess an Automation would need a naked advantage to use the sword. For humor's sake though and since automatons cover a wide swath of things if there is an automation wielding the Zatoichi's Edge it better be a Zombie Samurai.

[jtelson]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

I guess an Automation would need a naked advantage to use the sword. For humor's sake though and since automatons cover a wide swath of things if there is an automation wielding the Zatoichi's Edge it better be a Zombie Samurai.

 

or you could just make the sword cost 50 points instead of 47 and have it be 0-End

[Certified]

Re: Cuts through anything

 

or you could just make the sword cost 50 points instead of 47 and have it be 0-End

 

I suppose you could do that but I want want those damn Zombie Samurai to work for the Blind Guy's sword.