Why the dislike for Find Weakness?

[Metaphysician]

Re: Why the dislike for Find Weakness?

 

I never liked it because it was headache to properly balance with DCs of damage. FW could be weak or strong, narrow or broad. . . but in a totally different manner than attacks are.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Why the dislike for Find Weakness?

 

The relationship of Find Weakness to combat in HERO reminds me of the board game Axis & Allies when the German player spends all their money on Industrial Tech in the hopes of getting Heavy Bombers. If they succeed they are almost assured to win the game eventually. It has some of the same issues as the Killing Attack Stun Lotto.

[lemming]

Re: Why the dislike for Find Weakness?

 

I guess I'm one of the strange ones. I never had a problem with it as a GM, have never played a PC who had it (although I once designed one; a MA "brick breaker" named Argent who had FW on a 25-), and don't particularly mourn its loss in 6E.

 

I can see where it could be a headache in some campaigns, but it never was in games I played in.

 

It seemed to be less of an issue with our high powered games, than with the low powered games. Probably because all the bricks had lots of Lack and Damage Reduction, but the FW rolls were in a few cases in the 30s.

 

But with you, I'm not mourning the loss, but not going "Yay! It's gone!"

 

And it's not like games couldn't have it if the GM wants it.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Why the dislike for Find Weakness?

 

I've always kinda liked the idea of Find Weakness, but honestly I mostly do Heroic level games with a full load of combat options and Find Weakness has always been kinda wonky for my tastes when you add in the options. It really only ever worked for me when using the vanilla set of 4 color basic combat rules, and I'm not gonna be too put out having to rebuild it as Deadly Blow RSR, Piercing RSR, or some other construct, so hearing that it's going away isn't a really big deal for me.

I'd have preferred that the orphan mechanic get adopted into the toolbox family, broken apart into components, and those components balanced to work with other things in the toolbox, but that's a pretty tall order and I don't mind leaving the orphan out to die instead as long as I can find another little toolbox resident to do the job.

 

Dickens HERO

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Why the dislike for Find Weakness?

 

I always figured Find Weakness was inspired by the Marvel Comics character Karnak, of the Inhumans. Karnak is pretty much the pro from Dover in finding weak spots in anything and anyone, to the point of shattering tanks with a single precision blow.

 

The "feel" of Find Weakness (as separate from the straight mechanics of it) always seemed to me suited to characters who are extraordinarily skilled in combat, rather than simply wielding a lot of force; the Bullseyes and Karate Kids of your campaign world. You can construct something similar using Armor Piercing or Penetrating or Piercing, but IMHO the feel isn't the same.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Why the dislike for Find Weakness?

 

The problem with FW is that it augments attacks at a flat cost. It seems much more useful to halve defenses against a 12d6 attack than against a 2d6 attack, yet FW costs the same for both.

 

Sean Waters has suggested, with mathematical backup elsewhere, that simply allowing multiple levels of AP to halve defenses multiple times. This seems reasonable. You could then build some Naked Advantages to recreate FW if desired.

 

Without reprinting all the backup, consider that a character buying APx2 (quartering defenses under this model) could spend the same on an NND with the defense being hardened PD or hardened ED, and a character buying AP x4 (defenses now 1/16, so negligible) could have made that ND also do BOD, ignnoring defenses entirely.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Why the dislike for Find Weakness?

 

I'm a firm Meh.

 

I neither liked nor disliked the Mechanic. It felt weird in some games, worked in others, and was just a PITA in a rare few.

 

On some level, I lament the loss of a tool in the box though. Always hurts when that happens. But, I don't lament it enough to give it more than a few seconds thought.

[Zed-F]

Re: Why the dislike for Find Weakness?

 

We'll just have to see what new, better balanced tools Steve plans to add in the toolbox to replace it.

[jtelson]

Re: Why the dislike for Find Weakness?

 

I always figured Find Weakness was inspired by the Marvel Comics character Karnak, of the Inhumans. Karnak is pretty much the pro from Dover in finding weak spots in anything and anyone, to the point of shattering tanks with a single precision blow.

 

The "feel" of Find Weakness (as separate from the straight mechanics of it) always seemed to me suited to characters who are extraordinarily skilled in combat, rather than simply wielding a lot of force; the Bullseyes and Karate Kids of your campaign world. You can construct something similar using Armor Piercing or Penetrating or Piercing, but IMHO the feel isn't the same.

 

Find Weakness always puts me to thinking of Bullseye; Although I must admit of late I've tended to model "Precision" hits as damage adds, allowing even playing cards to be deadly - without all the Make a roll, maneuver, make another roll business.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Why the dislike for Find Weakness?

 

And the people who dislike Find Weakness get the final laugh. Steve has officially pulled the power from 6E.

 

I won't be sorry to see it go, but I'd have been glad to keep it if we also kept some of the other things that are changing. As a single power, it's easy enough to just not allow if you're not fond of it.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Why the dislike for Find Weakness?

 

To me, Find Weakness going kind of simplifies things in that it frees up five or so points on average for bricks who are only dumping the points on an off chance they may face an opponent with a rather exotic power. When a defense is way more common on builds than the attack it defends against, something is just a little out of whack.

 

I wouldn't have minded if it were left in, either, but ditching it does simplify things.

[Kenn]

Re: Why the dislike for Find Weakness?

 

I don't like it. I don't use it. I discourage my players from using it. And ditto with Lack of Weakness.

 

That said, I think removing it from the RAW is a mistake that unfairly penalises the people who do use it, like it, and are happy with it.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Why the dislike for Find Weakness?

 

I don't think removing it becomes unfair unless the base game mechanics change so much that they won't permit you to simply plug the prior version of the power back into the game.

 

In order for someone to like the power, they must already have the rules for the power either in print, or memorized. So, dropping it from the book does nothing to remove their ability to put it right back IN their games.

 

Unless the rules change so much that the power won't work. Which I doubt.