6th Edition Question: New Powers?

[Tasha]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

Most of my questions have been already answered, but I'm still wondering about two things:

 

How is Telekinesis structured? Still the old 3:2 cost?

 

And what about Complications? How are those working? What changes are we looking at there?

 

TK is the same. My guess is as long as you can directly damage stuff with it (ie Punch and Squeeze). It will have that particular cost.

 

Complications don't seem to be that different besides losing the limitation name in favor of being a Complication. ie Physical Complication, Psyc Complication etc. The big change here is that at least for supers they are recommending less points in complications with a greater amount of base points ie 325 base +75 Complications (400pts total) is a Standard Superheroic character level). Which I find to be a strangely compelling change.

[Zephrosyne]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

You're probably right, but they didn't.

 

To be honest, the names of Powers have never bothered♦ me at all. They're just labels and you simply have to separate the game definition from the real world definition.

 

You are right; in fact, it could be argued that I am being rather trivial (perhaps even silly). It's just that when explaining it to people, "Darkness versus hearing" sounds a bit odd. I once had to explain to a player "I understand the power is called 'Energy Blast' but it still applies to projectiles that are not energy." Blast on the other hand is a lot more generic with no real sfx implications, which is why I am glad that name change was made. I always wondered why Energy Blast wasn't simply called Normal Attack (Ranged), the normal damage version of Killing Attack (Ranged).

[Tasha]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

You are right; in fact' date=' it could be argued that I am being rather trivial (perhaps even silly). It's just that when explaining it to people, "Darkness versus hearing" sounds a bit odd. I once had to explain to a player "I understand the power is called 'Energy Blast' but it still applies to projectiles that are not energy." Blast on the other hand is a lot more generic with no real sfx implications, which is why I am glad that name change was made. I always wondered why Energy Blast wasn't simply called Normal Attack (Ranged), the normal damage version of Killing Attack (Ranged).[/quote']

 

Remember the powers were named before the Hero System was a Universal system. In those days we just had Champions and that was the ruleset and the Genre book all in one (More rules than genre). So basically the Supers genre has left a mark on the rules that may never be totally erased.

 

I don't know what else you would call "Darkness"? Disrupt Senses perhaps? I think that Flash and Darkness are here to stay (in name).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

with Dex now 2 did they remove lightning reflexes or tweak it down as dex that has no skill roll

 

DEX seems, to me anyway, overpriced at 2. What does it do? Grants a bonus to Agility skills. PRE and INT grant bonuses to skill subsets, and they are worth 1 point each. What else do they do?

 

INT adds to PER rolls. PRE adds to PRE attacks and defense (although I'd be good with defense being based only on EGO). DEX lets you move sooner in the combat order.

 

I don't think moving sooner in the combat order is more valuable than the INT and PRE effects. I really don't think it's vastly more valuable (ie enough that, if we subtract the cost of a level with skill rolls, the cost comparison works). Assuming 3 points for a skill level, then all those PRE benefits cost 2 points per 5 PRE, and moving 5 up in the combat order is somehow worth 7. That, or it is more valuable (and thus expensive) to boost DEX-based skills than to boost INT or PRE based skills.

 

Presumably, others value combat order more than I do. I never saw the value in Lightning Reflexes either - it always seemed overpriced to me. However, I note that DEX costs 2 points instead of 3, the same as its old cost before SPD additions, but provides considerably less benefits. It was a bargain before, but I think the pendulum has now swung too far the other way. Time will tell - but I think DEX inflation may now be "solved".

 

end reserve is still handy as it does not get zeroed if you get knocked out unless that changed

 

I'm glad to see REC, STUN and END reduced in cost. How often did characters buy STUN and REC, rather than defenses, or END and REC rather than Reduced END or END Reserve? If it's overpriced, no one buys it. If it's underpriced, everyone wants it.

 

As you note, the END in an END reserve is more valuable since it sticks around if you get KO'd. The REC, on the other hand, is less valuable as it can only work once per turn (but it does ALWAYS work once per turn) and it doesn't recover STUN.

[Beast]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

yeah dropping Dex 2 is over priced ,it should be 1 IMHO

all it is giving is a DEX roll and an order of who goes first

 

granted it was way underpriced before

 

 

 

 

DEX seems, to me anyway, overpriced at 2. What does it do? Grants a bonus to Agility skills. PRE and INT grant bonuses to skill subsets, and they are worth 1 point each. What else do they do?

 

INT adds to PER rolls. PRE adds to PRE attacks and defense (although I'd be good with defense being based only on EGO). DEX lets you move sooner in the combat order.

 

I don't think moving sooner in the combat order is more valuable than the INT and PRE effects. I really don't think it's vastly more valuable (ie enough that, if we subtract the cost of a level with skill rolls, the cost comparison works). Assuming 3 points for a skill level, then all those PRE benefits cost 2 points per 5 PRE, and moving 5 up in the combat order is somehow worth 7. That, or it is more valuable (and thus expensive) to boost DEX-based skills than to boost INT or PRE based skills.

 

Presumably, others value combat order more than I do. I never saw the value in Lightning Reflexes either - it always seemed overpriced to me. However, I note that DEX costs 2 points instead of 3, the same as its old cost before SPD additions, but provides considerably less benefits. It was a bargain before, but I think the pendulum has now swung too far the other way. Time will tell - but I think DEX inflation may now be "solved".

 

 

 

I'm glad to see REC, STUN and END reduced in cost. How often did characters buy STUN and REC, rather than defenses, or END and REC rather than Reduced END or END Reserve? If it's overpriced, no one buys it. If it's underpriced, everyone wants it.

 

As you note, the END in an END reserve is more valuable since it sticks around if you get KO'd. The REC, on the other hand, is less valuable as it can only work once per turn (but it does ALWAYS work once per turn) and it doesn't recover STUN.

[prestidigitator]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

Dive for Cover?

[Sean Waters]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

..........

 

Damage Negation is bought as Physical, Energy, or Mental and can be limited further by Limitations. Each "level" of Damage Negations removes a Damage Class from an attacking Power. So for example "Damage Negation (-6 DCs Physical), Only against Bullets" reduces a 2d6 + 1 RKA defined as a gun to a one-pip RKA.

 

................

 

 

This sounds like an idea we kicked around some time back. I like it as it speeds combat: fewer damage dice to actually roll. Nice to see it in there.

[Sean Waters]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply. I glad they removed the "Energy" from Energy Blast. However' date=' I wish they changed the name of Darkness to something that is more generic. Darkness kinda implies sight-based. I kinda like the Mutants and Masterminds name for the same power: Obscure. I has a more sense-neutral ring to it.[/quote']

 

Sticking with 'O', we have Obfuscate? Obtenebrate? (actually that one probably doesn't work given your objection) Onion? (Well I can hardly see anything when I peel one)

[Sean Waters]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

Dive for Cover?

 

 

That is now called 'Dave 4 Clover' and is a romantic short story about a man's love for his cow. I have to say it is a bit confusing coming, as it does, in the middle of the combat section.

[Sean Waters]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

DEX seems, to me anyway, overpriced at 2. What does it do? Grants a bonus to Agility skills. PRE and INT grant bonuses to skill subsets, and they are worth 1 point each. What else do they do?

 

INT adds to PER rolls. PRE adds to PRE attacks and defense (although I'd be good with defense being based only on EGO). DEX lets you move sooner in the combat order.

 

I don't think moving sooner in the combat order is more valuable than the INT and PRE effects. I really don't think it's vastly more valuable (ie enough that, if we subtract the cost of a level with skill rolls, the cost comparison works). Assuming 3 points for a skill level, then all those PRE benefits cost 2 points per 5 PRE, and moving 5 up in the combat order is somehow worth 7. That, or it is more valuable (and thus expensive) to boost DEX-based skills than to boost INT or PRE based skills.

 

Presumably, others value combat order more than I do. I never saw the value in Lightning Reflexes either - it always seemed overpriced to me. However, I note that DEX costs 2 points instead of 3, the same as its old cost before SPD additions, but provides considerably less benefits. It was a bargain before, but I think the pendulum has now swung too far the other way. Time will tell - but I think DEX inflation may now be "solved".

 

Lightning reflexes was always overpriced IMO (at 3 points for +2) and this may be a follow through from that. However combat order is pretty important: going first in a one on one means that you should win most of the time, all other things being equal. The advantage does not scale though: +1 point more than your opponent is as valuable as +10. I'd probably rather have seen DEX (Agility) and Initiative separated for costing. There was only so much differentiation we could be made to swallow though

 

 

 

I'm glad to see REC, STUN and END reduced in cost. How often did characters buy STUN and REC, rather than defenses, or END and REC rather than Reduced END or END Reserve? If it's overpriced, no one buys it. If it's underpriced, everyone wants it.

 

..................

 

It is now going to be practical to buy stun as a defence: a 60 point spend will get you +120 stun, which will be nice for those 'tough as nails but not armoured' types. I cautiously welcome this change: cautiously because it may mean higher STUN generally - and longer combats. Of course we will have to see how the overall balance settles.

[schir1964]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

... I don't know what else you would call "Darkness"? Disrupt Senses perhaps? I think that Flash and Darkness are here to stay (in name).

Sense Nullification or Nullify Sense.

 

Although, this sparks some interesting questions...

 

Why couldn't Flash be represented as a Drain vs Senses?

 

Why couldn't Darkness be an Area Effect flash?

 

It is curious how some mechanics developed over time.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Mostlyjoe]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

Any other 'tweeked' perks?

[megaplayboy]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

Any other 'tweeked' perks?

 

Just a thought--perhaps a 2010 "APG 2" could include some variant ways to handle wealth--an equipment pool, a VPP to simulate the ability to buy bases and vehicles and weaponry, etc.

[ajackson]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

Sense Nullification or Nullify Sense.

That's flash. Darkness is 'obstruct sense'.

Why couldn't Flash be represented as a Drain vs Senses?

Mostly because vision isn't normally listed as a power. It also has some cost issues -- you'd need quite a lot of drain to do anything, at which point the blindness would last the entire combat.

Why couldn't Darkness be an Area Effect flash?

Because darkness doesn't blind people -- it prevents them from seeing into or through an area. This is equivalent to being blind for people inside the area, but it's not equivalent for people outside the area.

[Sean Waters]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

.................

 

Mostly because vision isn't normally listed as a power. It also has some cost issues -- you'd need quite a lot of drain to do anything, at which point the blindness would last the entire combat.

 

...and there has been some confusion over how normal vision is 'built' and costed. It would certainly be a far less subtle tool.

 

Because darkness doesn't blind people -- it prevents them from seeing into or through an area. This is equivalent to being blind for people inside the area' date=' but it's not equivalent for people outside the area.[/quote']

 

A nice point. I suppose even an AoE constant flash would not prevent people seeing into and through the AoE if they were outside it. (Although there is some support fromt eh 'suppress' power that suggests that combination of modifiers can make powers work slightly differently.)

[megaplayboy]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

Ok, so if you take the complication "Normal Characteristic Maxima"(assuming this still exists), what is the maxima for the new CV stats? Does this maxima affect the purchase of combat skill levels?

Will there be a chart listing the normal/exceptional/legendary/superhuman stat ranges, including OCV, DCV, OMCV, DMCV?

 

What about the new talent, "Striking Appearance"? Will there be a suggestion as to what the maximum human limit to this should be?

 

Oh well, guess I'll find out tomorrow when I download the PDFs...

[ghost-angel]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

NCM is no longer a Complication - it is a campaign standard.

 

You either have it, or you don't.

 

If the Group wants to keep it, it'd be a Physical Limitation: Normal Person, but that's not sanctioned anywhere in the book.

 

Characteristic (and Skill, or even Damage) Maxima are in 6E1 pg50-52.

[Simon]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

NCM is no longer a Complication - it is a campaign standard.

I should point out that this had a bit of a beneficial effect on HD that folks may like -- the NCM limits for each Characteristic have been moved into the Campaign Rules screens and are now set via the user interface.

[prestidigitator]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

That is now called 'Dave 4 Clover' and is a romantic short story about a man's love for his cow. I have to say it is a bit confusing coming' date=' as it does, in the middle of the combat section.[/quote']

 

I meant as part of the reason Dex is more expensive.

[Sean Waters]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

I meant as part of the reason Dex is more expensive.

 

 

Oh - right - with you now.

 

Good point.

[Sean Waters]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

I should point out that this had a bit of a beneficial effect on HD that folks may like -- the NCM limits for each Characteristic have been moved into the Campaign Rules screens and are now set via the user interface.

 

 

Me likey! That works very nicely as you can then (if you want to) have archetypes with different expansion potentials.

 

This isn't a request as such, but something to ponder: would it be possible to set a x2 breakpoint and a x4 breakpoint for the same characteristic? That could help define races quite nicely.

[megaplayboy]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

NCM is no longer a Complication - it is a campaign standard.

 

You either have it, or you don't.

 

If the Group wants to keep it, it'd be a Physical Limitation: Normal Person, but that's not sanctioned anywhere in the book.

 

Characteristic (and Skill, or even Damage) Maxima are in 6E1 pg50-52.

 

Thanks--just out of curiosity, what are the cv caps set at?

[ghost-angel]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

Suggested maximums:

 

STR, DEX, CON, INT, EGO, PRE are 20

OCV, DCV, OMCV, DMCV are 8

Speed is 4

PD, ED are 8

Recovery is 10

Endurance is 50

Body is 20

Stun is 50

Running is 20m

Swimming and Leaping are 10m

[megaplayboy]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

Suggested maximums:

 

STR, DEX, CON, INT, EGO, PRE are 20

OCV, DCV, OMCV, DMCV are 8

Speed is 4

PD, ED are 8

Recovery is 10

Endurance is 50

Body is 20

Stun is 50

Running is 20m

Swimming and Leaping are 10m

 

Extrapolating a bit from that using the old 5th ed ranges, "legendary" CV ranges should be in the ballpark of 9-12 (peak physical stats being about 50% greater than normal maxima). A CV of 13+ (natural, without CSLs or maneuver bonuses) would then likely be regarded as "superhuman".

[Vondy]

Re: 6th Edition Question: New Powers?

 

Extrapolating a bit from that using the old 5th ed ranges' date=' "legendary" CV ranges should be in the ballpark of 9-12 (peak physical stats being about 50% greater than normal maxima). A CV of 13+ (natural, without CSLs or maneuver bonuses) would then likely be regarded as "superhuman".[/quote']

 

This works for me.