FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Markdoc]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

FH already went into Bronze versus Steel (amongst others like Stone' date=' Wood, and the like), so that's been covered.[/quote']

 

Yeah, but the 5E version contains some odd things - a revamp would be good to eliminate weird stuff. Bronze armour for example was listed as -2 DEF, which means that adding bronzes plate to a heavy leather jerkin makes it less protective than the jerkin you stated with. Wait, what? That was avery popular type of armour for over a thousand years! In truth, bronze is not that much softer than steel and was discarded simply because to get similar strength, bronze armours were heavier. There are, as noted, other oddities in that section as well. It might be nice to run the armour and weapons section by the armour and weapons geeks on the board, during the writing phase.

 

cheers, Mark

[RexMundi]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Yeah Bronze actually had a LOT of advantages as well. Especially in the armor area, except it weighed more. One of the best laughs I got out of the Show Deadliest Warriors, was watching them go to town on Bronze verbally, then, after testing, they have to eat a lot of crow. Turns out, Bronze was pretty freaking good.

 

~Rex

[casualplayer]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I would like two things. I would like a delving into what makes fantasy Fantasy, and while most say magic I say it is more broadly ambiance. Wounds are messy and dangerous, and a person with a dagger is a threat. Precious heat comes from capricious fire. Weather can change your plans or dash them on the rocks. Travel and communication are adventures in themselves. Death is close during the day and closer still during the dark. What you don't know can hurt you. Smells. Sounds. Tastes.

 

I would also like some description on how decisions can affect your game. Readily available, pull-from-the-edge-of-death or even resurrection healing makes for a vastly different game than field dressing and praying the flux doesn't set in. A spellcaster needing components smells bad and can be sniffed out and avoided while someone who just has to wiggle their digits is always armed and dangerous and may be anyone in the room right now! Whether or not a spell can be cast faster or slower than a sword can be drawn and swung shapes your game in a monumental way and needs to be carefully considered.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

A few comments about the possibilities of turning the tropes on their heads -- in which you can not only run games that play to gamers' expectations, but games that challenge them as well.

 

Using complications to turn ideas about monsters and villains on their ears. Also how to make even the cannon-fodder interesting.

 

Discussion of Discworld-style humorous fantasy.

 

How to put PCs in situations where murder is not the answer to the problem.

[SuperPheemy]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Murder is *always* the answer to the problem.. sometimes it's the wrong answer, but that's what the spell "Atonement" is for.

[Susano]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

How to put PCs in situations where murder is not the answer to the problem.

 

If violence isn't the answer, then I don't understand the question.

[mallet]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

If violence doesn't get you what you want, then you are not being violent enough.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

*SHWING!* Quickening, woot!

[BobGreenwade]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I would like two things. I would like a delving into what makes fantasy Fantasy' date=' and while most say magic I say it is more broadly ambiance. Wounds are messy and dangerous, and a person with a dagger is a threat. Precious heat comes from capricious fire. Weather can change your plans or dash them on the rocks. Travel and communication are adventures in themselves. Death is close during the day and closer still during the dark. What you don't know [u']can[/u] hurt you. Smells. Sounds. Tastes.

 

I would also like some description on how decisions can affect your game. Readily available, pull-from-the-edge-of-death or even resurrection healing makes for a vastly different game than field dressing and praying the flux doesn't set in. A spellcaster needing components smells bad and can be sniffed out and avoided while someone who just has to wiggle their digits is always armed and dangerous and may be anyone in the room right now! Whether or not a spell can be cast faster or slower than a sword can be drawn and swung shapes your game in a monumental way and needs to be carefully considered.

QFT, and repped.

 

Some of this applies to Sci-Fi and Superhero gaming as well (like using all the senses in descriptions, creating a powerful ambiance, and having ready healing and/or resurrection), but what can really make a difference is in how difficult magic is to not just learn but to use. A Fireball spell that takes a full minute to launch and requires a handful of salamander blood has a powerful check-and-balance against swords that a Fireball spell that takes a simple gesture to launch just doesn't.

[dmjalund]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

but for that level of inconvenience, you'd want it to be a combat decider

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Tips, advice, recommendations and recommended reading for creating original species/races.

 

Because almost every time I see an "Original" one, I can plunk it down as Dwarf, Hobbit, Elf or Variant Human.

[AnotherSkip]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Steve probably doesn't have the time for this but how about doing the same things for weapons you do for magic systems. After all This is HERO, there is no one MAGIC system to rule them all why do we have to have one WEAPON system to rule them all?

 

Doing a similar thing for WEAPONS as SPELLS should make for an interesting read.

 

He has basically done this (in 5th) but he hasn't charted them out for note to note comparisons

[Old Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

That way lies madness.

[The Main Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I would like two things. I would like a delving into what makes fantasy Fantasy' date=' and while most say magic I say it is more broadly ambiance. Wounds are messy and dangerous, and a person with a dagger is a threat. Precious heat comes from capricious fire. Weather can change your plans or dash them on the rocks. Travel and communication are adventures in themselves. Death is close during the day and closer still during the dark. What you don't know [u']can[/u] hurt you. Smells. Sounds. Tastes.

 

I would also like some description on how decisions can affect your game. Readily available, pull-from-the-edge-of-death or even resurrection healing makes for a vastly different game than field dressing and praying the flux doesn't set in. A spellcaster needing components smells bad and can be sniffed out and avoided while someone who just has to wiggle their digits is always armed and dangerous and may be anyone in the room right now! Whether or not a spell can be cast faster or slower than a sword can be drawn and swung shapes your game in a monumental way and needs to be carefully considered.

 

1. I'm glad to see another player who wants a genre primer that goes deeper than the tropes.I obviously don't expect an essay but hitting on popular key points would be nice. The main topic would probably be contrasting Fantasy against Science Fiction, which could easily be reprinted for Star HERO.

 

I think of it as a way to make the prospective GM critically think about their campaign and how straight they want to play it and realising that HERO is at their service either way, ready to do whatever they want.

 

2. I like that your second suggestion sounds like it is a request for genre-specific applications, considerations, and ramifications of various Power Modifiers. I welcome the idea with open arms.

[Steve Long]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I would like two things. I would like a delving into what makes fantasy Fantasy, and while most say magic I say it is more broadly ambiance. Wounds are messy and dangerous, and a person with a dagger is a threat. Precious heat comes from capricious fire. Weather can change your plans or dash them on the rocks. Travel and communication are adventures in themselves. Death is close during the day and closer still during the dark. What you don't know can hurt you. Smells. Sounds. Tastes.

 

I would also like some description on how decisions can affect your game. Readily available, pull-from-the-edge-of-death or even resurrection healing makes for a vastly different game than field dressing and praying the flux doesn't set in. A spellcaster needing components smells bad and can be sniffed out and avoided while someone who just has to wiggle their digits is always armed and dangerous and may be anyone in the room right now! Whether or not a spell can be cast faster or slower than a sword can be drawn and swung shapes your game in a monumental way and needs to be carefully considered.

 

I definitely appreciate where you're coming from, cp, but I disagree with your analysis. None of the things you describe as "making fantasy Fantasy" are, in my opinion, key elements of all Fantasy. They clearly are key elements of your vision of Fantasy, and that's great, but not everyone's going to agree. To take just two examples, there are plenty of Fantasy stories/campaigns/settings where wounds aren't especially messy or dangerous, and plenty where travel and communication are not only not an adventure, they're easier and better than they are in the modern technological world. To the extent these things need to be touched on as considerations, I think the FH text already does what needs doing, and naturally the new edition will do so as well.

[mallet]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

One thing I would really like to see, and maybe this could be a "generic" section that could be reprinted in Star Hero next year and Dark Champions if and when it is ever updated for 6th edition, is a section of the book that deals with adapting the Hero System rules for Heroic level games.

 

I know this is somewhat covered in the main rule books, and that pretty much all of the alternate rules and advice are in there somewhere, but I think a guide that brings them all together and gives advice, directions and pointers on adjusting the rules to a Heroic level game would be an amazing help for players and GM's new to Hero and for those switching from Super Hero level games to heroic Level games.

 

I recently started up a Heroic level fantasy hero game and the biggest problem I had and the most work that went into setting it up was getting the Hero System Toolkit rules adjusted just right and balanced for that level of game. It took a lot of time and "testing" to establish the starting points, mins, maxes, Active points, cost of weapons, etc... before character generation, and even then I (we've) had to make some adjustments as we've gotten into the game.

 

Big issues were, mixing Magical powers (and power levels) with characters using swords, daggers, arrows, and more mundane weapons. Powers and weapons can balance out well in a Super Hero game because players can "buy" laser guns, and super weapons as part of the super hero setting, but in fantasy players are generally stuck with swords and such and they are often "competing" against fireballs, and magical spells that rival super hero abilities. Plus, advice on characteristic maximums, what type of combat rules to use (hit locations can make for a very deadly game at Heroic levels. More deadly then Cinematic feel that our game was going for)) and many other small things.

 

As I said, I know general advice is given in the main rule books, but I think more detailed advice, suggestions and maybe even a single (1 or 2 page?) example of a balanced generic "fantasy setting rules system/starting point" where you list out what rules are to be used in the example setting, what active point levels, Characteristic maximums, etc... and why you chose what you did would be fantastic and make getting into and starting a Fantasy Hero game much easier. This is especially true if there won't be an official Fantasy Hero settings for the 6th edition that potential GMs & Players could use as an example.

 

A generic Heroic Level Guide would also be great in future Hero genre books that deal with characters that are primarily heroic in the genre (Like Star Heroes).

 

Anyways, that is what I would like to see.

[mattingly]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Wishes. Just plot devices, or actually written up as VPPs or some other construct? Any provisos or quid pro quos?

[BobGreenwade]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Wishes. Just plot devices' date=' or actually written up as VPPs or some other construct? Any provisos or quid pro quos?[/quote']Though the usual method is as EDM to a dimension where the wish is true, I personally prefer VPPs, with the EDM as a last-resort option. "I wish I had a female sex-slave bodyguard" might be better done with Summon, for example, and "I wish [insert hated enemy here] would die" could be an RKA with appropriate Modifiers.

[dmjalund]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

The only way I'd allow wishes as EDMs was in a solo adventure where the person wished to be in a different circumstance. The GM could say that in the original universe, he is lying sleeping/unconscious awaiting his return (if he does)

[Old Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Wishes. Just plot devices' date=' or actually written up as VPPs or some other construct? Any provisos or quid pro quos?[/quote']

 

I would argue that it needs no writeup. It's a wish.

 

Unless you're talking about a system of magic based on people who can wish for stuff (e.g. Rusalka); then what you have is a Cosmic VPP with invisible effects.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

...Transform.

[Markdoc]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd go with the whole "wishes are plot devices". The current suggested mechanism is clumsy in the extreme, but that's because wishes by definition allow you to operate "outside the rules". Even D&D which originated wishes as player options, have placed more and more restrictions on them so you can't just use a wish to wish for what you want.

 

cheers, Mark

[Steve Long]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

OK, people have apparently forgotten the purpose of this thread, so I'm going to lock it for a little while and let people calm down.

 

I appreciate and welcome Dave's suggestion about covering wishes; that's entirely valid for this thread. A general discussion of wishes is totally inappropriate, and all of you know it, so shut up. I don't care how any of you would do it, or what you think of other peoples' inappropriate suggestions. If you want to discuss wishes, by all means start your own thread, but stop cluttering up this thread.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

It occurs to me that a few words on using more than one magic system in the same setting would be appropriate. For example, the system used by humans could be highly ritualistic, while that used by the Fey Folk is much more free-form, and people from a third culture have a whole 'nother set of restrictions. Or, a campaign could involve travel between two or more different worlds, and magic works differently on each.

 

A couple of sentences to (at most) a couple of paragraphs on the topic should be plenty for this -- just enough to give the GM ideas.

[Steve]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

One thing I'd like to see is an expansion of Environmental packages to cover more terrestrial environments: Arctic, Deserts, Jungles, etc. An example of this was used in Turakian Age (page 102), for the Dahganir.

 

Perhaps some minor (1 pt each?) Life Support additions could be part of them to show increased resistance to certain environmental effects like desert heat, arctic cold, sunburn, high humidity, etc. This would be a great way to take a race and do regional variants: desert orcs, arctic elves, etc.