FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Bismark]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

…and now to magic systems - of which HERO fandom must have created many…

 

I have just read through my copy of Chivalry & Sorcery 3rd edn and I was reminded of the fact that despite the magic there being (for the most part) 'Western' in feel, there was a huge variety in modes of casting and types of arcana that would be fun to 'draw inspiration from' for the new FH book.

 

Examples include mages who:

1. prepare spells by making potions and cast spells by drinking those potions;

2. sing their spells;

3. solve complex equations (the 'Magic Square Mystics')

4. use Words of Power [Earthsea rip-off here ];

5. inscribe glyphs onto bits of pottery and either read out the glyphs or throw the pottery pieces at the target

 

in addition to the Dance/Chant types (classic 'hop in a circle while yodelling and brandishing fetishes'-type )

 

A few guidelines on how to model this sort of thing would be really useful, especially to FH 'newbies'.

 

Another little thing that may crop up now and again is the concept of mages who can cast spells without a "Wizard's Staff" or similar, but their spells are easier/quicker/more powerful if they have one. Guidelines on how to model this would be most welcome.

[The Main Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

FH already went into Bronze versus Steel (amongst others like Stone, Wood, and the like), so that's been covered. What hasn't been covered, and I think that this would allow 6e to really show itself off, is what the PD/ED divisions may be for each material.

 

 

That does have me thinking that it may be worth exploring the possibilities of magical and/or technological disparities between races, nations, and/or cultures.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'm thinking that the hobbits have bought a ton of Luck' date=' DCV and other inobvious defensive abilities. Also very good CON, & BODY. I guess I always thought that they spent their points in a different way than Gimili or Boromir.[/quote']

 

The Hobbits also have stealth skills the other characters lack.

 

Of course, if you build a character whose combat abilities tend to Luck, DCV, and staying out of the way, and a bunch of stealth and infiltration skills, you are going to be disappointed playing him in a game where the encounters are resolved only by hitting the Bad Guys harder than they hit you, since all you get to do is Dodge attacks. Everyone needs to play a combat monster, or get out of the way.

 

In a game where stealth can be used to get a sense of what you're going up against so the fighters can be more effective, or combat avoided entirely, this character is much more fun to play since he gets to be useful too.

[dmjalund]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

give the hobbit the valuable object, and while the bad guy is distracted chasing him, have it get clobbered by the combat monster

[The Main Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Tolkein obviously wasn't a gamer. But then, we have DM of the Rings to thoroughly explore that.

 

The FH book could mention the Magical Realism subgenre. It is distinctly different from Urban Fantasy, IMO.

[The Main Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

In addition to more fine-tuned PD/ED values, I think that some examples of Hardened and Impenetrable armors would be interesting for contrast.

 

 

What if there was more support for the Basic Rules? I'm thinking that there could be a symbol for when the rules are not compatible with the Basic Rules.

 

Similarly, what if there were some Magic Systems that dealt with the Advanced Player's guide, and they had a symbol or the like to designate that too?

 

I think that these ideas have merit because a person could buy the Basic Rules and then a Genre book because they are aware of the generic nature of the game. Similarly, being warned right off the bat that a given magic system requires understanding an optional rule or two from another book would help the reader not waste their time unless they had the book (or, you know, went out and bought it). I think that it would also give the HERO System a multi-leveled appearance that says, "Hey, I can be enjoyed at various levels of complexity and the choice is yours.".

[Rapier]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Options for archers.

 

Bow X does Yd6 damage. That represents the amount of force Bow X is available to impart upon a standard normal arrow. Gadgets and Gear (and UMA) have offered some options on Chisel-Point arrows, the oh-so-humourously named Frog-Crotch and lots of other juicey bits. But how does this work within the framework of the bow? Are some arrows more accurate than others?

 

Is there perhaps a chart (similar to that in DC about switching ammo types)? Do certain types of arrows add damage? Do they instead convert the Base Damage into an Advantaged Damage (eg regular killing into AP killing)?

 

Your average peasant or farmer is more likely able to handle a bow (since it can be used to put food on the table) than a sword, and it would be wonderful to give them options other than the normal, standard boring single variety of arrow they've been given so far!

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Ahhh, I got one. Cumulative Healing. Some way to mimic D&D clerics' healing spells. With a note that as long as it's not usable at will (in other words, if it's Limited to a few times a day, long casting times, rare Focus, etc.) it's probably not particularly unbalancing.

[RexMundi]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Wouldn't, Charges do that?

 

~Rex

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

How can we have reached Page 6 with no mention of Chain Mail Bikinis?

 

More seriously, I really like Main Man's idea of flagging various builds, systems, etc. with "Usable by Basic Rules" and "Requires APG" in Hero publications in general.

[Escafarc]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

How can we have reached Page 6 with no mention of Chain Mail Bikinis?

 

Well since Mr. Long squashed any hope of a Howler Centerfold in Champions Villains.....

[ghost-angel]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Talents built around various styles of Fantasy Gaming; I liked that the Fighting Tricks in Valdorian Age captured the feel of the S&S genre, the ones in FH seemed very High Fantasy; I'd like to see Talents broken down more by genre than lumped all together - Low Fantasy abilities, High Fantasy Stunts, S&S Tricks, and not all combat focused either. Things like that would be useful in ideas for genre simulation.

[Steve]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Talents built around various styles of Fantasy Gaming; I liked that the Fighting Tricks in Valdorian Age captured the feel of the S&S genre' date=' the ones in FH seemed very High Fantasy; I'd like to see Talents broken down more by genre than lumped all together - Low Fantasy abilities, High Fantasy Stunts, S&S Tricks, and not all combat focused either. Things like that would be useful in ideas for genre simulation.[/quote']

 

I second this suggestion. Breaking down Talents and Stunts by genre is a good idea and would be a big help to GMs and players. It could be done in a similar fashion to how martial arts abilities were broken down in the new HSMA book.

[Old Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Ahhh' date=' I got one. Cumulative Healing. Some way to mimic D&D clerics' healing spells. With a note that as long as it's not usable at will (in other words, if it's Limited to a few times a day, long casting times, rare Focus, etc.) it's probably not particularly unbalancing.[/quote']

 

Actually, yeah, FH needs a coherent approach to healing especially if hit locations are being used. Thanks, I'd forgotten that one.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd like to see a detailed example of creating a magic system, similar to what was done with the, "Mongoose Style" in HSMA. I'd also like to see more advice on adapting material from other fantasy games (seeing as it is a popular genre).

[The Main Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Talents built around various styles of Fantasy Gaming; I liked that the Fighting Tricks in Valdorian Age captured the feel of the S&S genre' date=' the ones in FH seemed very High Fantasy; I'd like to see Talents broken down more by genre than lumped all together - Low Fantasy abilities, High Fantasy Stunts, S&S Tricks, and not all combat focused either. Things like that would be useful in ideas for genre simulation.[/quote']

 

I like this idea. Perhaps an abbreviation of each subgenre to place within each description would do.

[The Main Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

How can we have reached Page 6 with no mention of Chain Mail Bikinis?

 

More seriously, I really like Main Man's idea of flagging various builds, systems, etc. with "Usable by Basic Rules" and "Requires APG" in Hero publications in general.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

 

Methinks that there could either be new symbols like the classic Stop and Caution Signs or else color-coding for headers. Either one would probably be best served as introduced right at the beginning. It would also be a good idea to mention it on the back. Heck, maybe a symbol or logo would be good for saying it on the cover.

[ghost-angel]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

A little Hex with a B for "Basic Rules" or A for "Advanced Rules Needed"

 

The only downside is that most of the builds can be used with the Basic Rules; so maybe Full Rules Required and APG Required are a better less messy option.

[The Main Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

A little Hex with a B for "Basic Rules" or A for "Advanced Rules Needed"

 

The only downside is that most of the builds can be used with the Basic Rules; so maybe Full Rules Required and APG Required are a better less messy option.

 

Sounds simple and elegant enough to me (granted it's Mr. Long who needs to be impressed ).

 

I was later thinking the same thing as far as your second statement goes too.

[Nolgroth]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

A little Hex with a B for "Basic Rules" or A for "Advanced Rules Needed"

 

The only downside is that most of the builds can be used with the Basic Rules; so maybe Full Rules Required and APG Required are a better less messy option.

Except that the Basic rules have no discussion about Damage Negation or Time Limit. While those two are very easy concepts to grasp, it brings up the point that not all power builds will be understood by those with just the Basic Rulebook. I think it would be advantageous to note which powers are useful to the Basic Rulebook crowd. If only one or two power builds, out of 20, have the little B Hex, then it might inspire those on the cusp to purchase the full books so that they have all the good stuff.

 

I would think the B and A are more than sufficient flags. If it doesn't have a flag, the default assumption is that you use the main HERO rulebooks. Just my thoughts on the matter.

[Steve Long]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

OK, a few quick responses for things that've caught my eye. Thanx for all the input so far, folx, and keep the suggestions comin'!

 

1. Sorry, but I'm not "flagging" anything in FH as BR- or APG-compatible. The last thing in the world I want to do is start implying that there are two separate games, Basic and Regular. If you have the BR and see something you don't recognize, as stated in BR that tells you it's in the main rulebook and you should consider "upgrading." While I don't rely heavily on APG material in most books (and often include an APG page reference when I do), if it's in the APG it's fair game to use, since the APG is a Core Library book and I expect most serious Hero gaming groups to have at least one copy.

 

2. Organizing Talents by subgenre is a possibility I'll consider. I'm not sure I have, or will have, enough material to really make that worthwhile, but it's not a bad idea.

 

3. There's already info about different types of arrows (and missile "ammo" generally) in FH, and I don't see myself expanding on that in the new edition. (If anything, some of the info on gear and weapons may get removed and put in the HSEG, if it's commonly applicable to many genres.)

 

4. Sorry, but I'm not going to put in a section about adapting other Fantasy games' stuff. Even if that interested me (it doesn't), it treads perilously close to copyright violations and would take time I don't have.

[RexMundi]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Ah but then a comparative Art Splash showing the various "genre's" of fantasy off, could still be a good thing.

 

~Rex

[Susano]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

4. Sorry, but I'm not going to put in a section about adapting other Fantasy games' stuff. Even if that interested me (it doesn't), it treads perilously close to copyright violations and would take time I don't have.

 

Besides, there's always me and KillerShrike.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I can't see a "cribbing from other games" being any more detailed than "how to work with tropes and mechanics common in other games". As an example, many games (D&D and Villains & Vigilantes come to mind) deal with combat on an attrition basis. You have a number of encounters which gradually utilize the characters' resources. That makes it harder to use that material in Hero, where full recovery shortly after combat is pretty common, and resources tend to be less limited (ie spells are reusable).

 

I found this a lot outside Fantasy in adapting Villains & Vigilantes scenarios, where the characters tended to enounter a villain or two at a time, and lose hit points. In Champions, that means 5 characters gang up on one or two, and the few that got hit recover all their STUN, so they move on at full power.

 

I'm a bad source for specific mechanics/tropes people would like to import, since I don't follow a lot of other games. I think the better approach is to toss out those mechanics/tropes we'd like to see discussed in FH. Take a look at 5e's talents and you can read an awful lot of 3rd Ed D&D Feats between the lines. "This is how you create a Whirlwind Attack/Magic Missile from D&D in the Hero System" seems, like Steve says, pretty precarious from a legal perspective. "A character with this Talent has trained to strike out against multiple opponents, and can attack all targets in Hand to Hand combat range with a single attack" or "This spell creates a projectile of mystic force which unerringly strikes its target" seems a lot more practical to me.

 

If I want a game that's good at simulating D&D, that's probably D&D anyway. I think what is most commonly wanted is a means of importing a specific effect, so what effect do we want reasoned in Fantasy Hero 6e?

[RexMundi]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Yeah but that kind of comparative conversion has always had the best results in the hands of the Community, as opposed to in between the covers of the initial book.

 

~Rex