Escafarc Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 If a character(Defender and Sapphire in particular) doesn't have any Mental Powers why would they increase OMCV. The only thing I can come up with is the Optional Breakout rule in APG. Are there any other uses I'm missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E If I had to guess: direct translation from 5E when ECV (now OMCV/DMCV) was derived from EGO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E I've done this, when you are converting characters over it's easy to just match the old Characteristics to the new. I had a bunch of characters with no mental powers and OMCVs of 5 - 7. I would say that it's primarily a conversion error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daltwisney Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E If they have no mental powers, it is likely that this is a holdover from the 5e versions, probably a translation from ECV. Other than the breakout rule in the APG and any powers with OMCV as an 'Alternate Combat Value', I can think of no 'standard' need for a higher OMCV for a character without Mental Powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daltwisney Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E This is one of the biggest issues with the published material. Even though Figured Characteristics were removed in 6E, nothing was retooled as a result. The primary and most obvious example of this was DEX, which often suffered inflation due to it's driving effect on CV and Speed. Even with that dependence gone, published material hasn't adopted any shift in response. I started a Champs game shortly after 6E was released, and I very specifically set it up so that the PCs (and any Super-Powered Enemies), while substantially faster and more dexterous than Agents, didn't have to be spectacularly so to perform well. So far the results have been positive, but the sad truth is that if I choose to use any published characters (on either side), I will have to re-stat them, since they will far outshine the PCs otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevenall Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E I can see your point, but personally I'd rather see Steve spend his time creating new material then tweaking existing characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daltwisney Posted May 24, 2010 Report Share Posted May 24, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E I really don't use published characters enough for it to be a problem for me. That said, the amount of 'new' material that is just tweaked versions of old material is substantial. IMO, spending some time on the Characters to bring them in line with the paradigm shift in Characteristics would have been welcome, and worthwhile. Obviously, that was a path they decided not to take. It was not my decision to make, and I don't fault them either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escafarc Posted May 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E Which brings me to the question does anyone use the optional rule from the APG. I can see a lot of players selling back their OMCV down to 1 for the extra 6 CPs otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concord Posted May 25, 2010 Report Share Posted May 25, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E Alternate Combat Value makes selling back any CV a risky proposition... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted May 25, 2010 Report Share Posted May 25, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E I don't allow anyone to sell OMCV below the base of 3, under the principle that a Limitation that does not limit is not worth points. In this case, selling OMCV below 3 when you have no mental powers has absolutely no effect on your character...so is not worth any points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted May 25, 2010 Report Share Posted May 25, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E Everyone should have a base mental defense level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera 12 Posted May 25, 2010 Report Share Posted May 25, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E Everyone should have a base mental defense level. Yes, but what's in question here is the base mental offense level -- OMCV, not DMCV. There really isn't much use in that one for characters who have no way to actually use it to attack anybody... (Random tangent: I've noticed some people on these boards complain about PRE being too effective. Part of that would probably be that Presence Attacks always automatically hit...might it make sense to tie them to the mental combat values instead?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted May 25, 2010 Report Share Posted May 25, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E As I've been converting old 5E PCs (or PC concepts) over to 6E I've been mostly following the old figured characteristics (it's easier that way), but I've been not buying character's OMCVs up their old 5E levels since, in many cases, it'll never be used. However, with newer characters, created purely in 6E, I've been more conscientious of the flexibility of differing OCVs, DCVs, OMCVs, and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted May 25, 2010 Report Share Posted May 25, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E (Random tangent: I've noticed some people on these boards complain about PRE being too effective. Part of that would probably be that Presence Attacks always automatically hit...might it make sense to tie them to the mental combat values instead?) Excellent point, and unfortunately not able to rep you right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted May 29, 2010 Report Share Posted May 29, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E I can see your point' date=' but personally I'd rather see Steve spend his time creating new material then tweaking existing characters.[/quote'] Then why change the rules if the existing characters aren't going to be bothered to use them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E I suppose Steve could be looking at it from the point of view of "How strong offensively is their mind if they did have an OMCV-based power?" For example, if they found an "alien" artifact that uses OMCV, would the character be able to use it? There are at least some characters where he has varied the OMCV and DMCV so I think he gave it a little thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E As good a reason as any I suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E One could use OMCV to target a Presence attack to an individual amongst a group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E While this would be very campaign specific, it's not uncommon in comics for non-mentalist characters to interact with the Astral Plane, Dreamscapes, and the like. Whether they tagged along with the team mentalist, are being mentally attacked while they sleep, or whatnot, the could very well have to rely on OMCV to fight and possibly INT or EGO instead of STR to cause 'damage'. Again, this would be very campaign specific and I'm sure different people would handle it a multitude of ways in their own campaigns, but it is a fairly common comic book Trope and worth considering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E While this would be very campaign specific' date=' it's not uncommon in comics for non-mentalist characters to interact with the Astral Plane, Dreamscapes, and the like. Whether they tagged along with the team mentalist, are being mentally attacked while they sleep, or whatnot, the could very well have to rely on OMCV to fight and possibly INT or EGO instead of STR to cause 'damage'. Again, this would be very campaign specific and I'm sure different people would handle it a multitude of ways in their own campaigns, but it is a fairly common comic book Trope and worth considering.[/quote'] Very true. I would like to think that if the characters were going to be spending lots of time in Astral Space, they would have been warned ahead of time and would have built their characters with that in mind. I know I would be slightly perturbed if I had built a mental midget/physical powerhouse and spent all my time hampered because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squall Posted May 30, 2010 Report Share Posted May 30, 2010 Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E While this would be very campaign specific' date=' it's not uncommon in comics for non-mentalist characters to interact with the Astral Plane, Dreamscapes, and the like. Whether they tagged along with the team mentalist, are being mentally attacked while they sleep, or whatnot, the could very well have to rely on OMCV to fight and possibly INT or EGO instead of STR to cause 'damage'. Again, this would be very campaign specific and I'm sure different people would handle it a multitude of ways in their own campaigns, but it is a fairly common comic book Trope and worth considering.[/quote'] Someone like Cyclops, for instance, does this all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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