RexMundi Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Flamethrower. Cleans up pesky Clone problems. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caris Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! But these clones were incubated to adulthood. It could be argued that they're instant copies with no former life and only trained to be Nazi assassins (hardly ready fro prime time suburb life). And they will all have the exact DNA and identifiable tags as the original Swastika. Couldn't he say that's ID theft and demand his individuality back? What if it were you? You are a dirty, shedding thing (we all are). Acquiring a sample of your DNA would be easy enough and not illegal (since you leave a trail of it where ever you go, and once you leave it behind you relinquish ownership). Now, I take that DNA and forge 100 clones of you. Okay, the law hates the idea that I can do that. They confiscate my cloning machine and throw me in jail (i don't know, maybe for littering... or operating cloning machinery without a license). But what about the 100 clones (without birth certificates and a proper repertoire of life experiences)? What if I had trained them as assassins??? Honestly, I think you are a little too tied up with the idea that some how the fact that they are clones is that meaningful. First of all this only becomes identity theft, if they are claiming to be the original. In your scenario that does not seem to be the case. Your own pdf states clearly that they differ from the original, so they can not threaten his individuality any more than someone getting the same hair cut or wearing the same outfit would threaten his individuality. (Can it be creepy? Yes, but you don't always have a legal remedy against creepy.) My suggestion is take the clone aspect out of the question, what if someone had extracted 100 fetus's and treated them to the exact same process the clones went through? How would your government deal with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Gitmo. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caris Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Gitmo. ~Rex Yes, that is what I assume GA will be going with. It is all the extra stuff, like referring to this as some sort of identity theft, that I was being disturbed by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Yes' date=' that is what I assume GA will be going with. It is all the extra stuff, like referring to this as some sort of identity theft, that I was being disturbed by.[/quote'] Not to mention, being a bit...gleeful about shipping them to Gitmo. If it's a foregone ending in his game world anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Heh, I'm playing in that game. I can't shake the feeling that there may not be a ....hmmm......clone population issue by the end of the "event" with all the clones, heh. OR, my guy gets squashed and I just make one of those clones as my next PC. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caris Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Not to mention' date=' being a bit...[i']gleeful[/i] about shipping them to Gitmo. If it's a foregone ending in his game world anyway... Actually, I wasn't picking up any glee, about it. Other than the possiblity of tweak some specific posters by characterising their solutions as shipping them off to Gitmo, which is between him and those posters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenAge Posted May 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Gitmo. ~Rex Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Heh' date=' I'm playing in that game. I can't shake the feeling that there may not be a ....hmmm......clone population issue by the end of the "event" with all the clones, heh. OR, my guy gets squashed and I just make one of those clones as my next PC. [/quote'] That give the entire "you killed our brother" theme a whole new dimension... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Kinda what I was thinking. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Kinda what I was thinking. My idea goes a little farther than the reapperaing avenger: That give the entire "you killed our brother" theme a whole new dimension... When you hear this, there could be a lot of people around right now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Cloned superhumans would be pretty problematic, yes. It's the equivalent of having a device that could mass produce nuclear warheads. The most major "meta" threat of clones is twofold: loss of distinctiveness of the PCs, and over-killing a plot idea that's only good in small doses(i.e., you have to fight your evil clone, or your evil clone appears to have reformed and is now fighting evil, too(or is he?), your wife slept with both you and your evil clone--and now she's pregnant!, etc.). Although I suppose you could keep a bunch of them in a deep thaw until the next alien/demonic invasion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Cloned superhumans would be pretty problematic, yes. It's the equivalent of having a device that could mass produce nuclear warheads. The most major "meta" threat of clones is twofold: loss of distinctiveness of the PCs, and over-killing a plot idea that's only good in small doses(i.e., you have to fight your evil clone, or your evil clone appears to have reformed and is now fighting evil, too(or is he?), your wife slept with both you and your evil clone--and now she's pregnant!, etc.). Although I suppose you could keep a bunch of them in a deep thaw until the next alien/demonic invasion... That's a lawsuit from the Agamic Rights League just looking for a place to happen, dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Cloned superhumans would be pretty problematic' date=' yes. It's the equivalent of having a device that could mass produce nuclear warheads.[/quote'] We seem to have little difficulty (over)producing nuclear warheads now. Would cloning technology be 5 men for a quarter? The most major "meta" threat of clones is twofold: loss of distinctiveness of the PCs' date=' and over-killing a plot idea that's only good in small doses(i.e., you have to fight your evil clone, or your evil clone appears to have reformed and is now fighting evil, too(or is he?), your wife slept with both you and your evil clone--and now she's pregnant!, etc.).[/quote'] Lots of genre tropes don't hold up to close scrutiny. Time travel characters, for example, suffer from Plot Induced Stupidity. In fact, back in the '70's (IIRC), an Avengers writer went on record in that regard. Viewed reasonably, if Kang gets beaten by the Avengers, and retreats to his own time, what stops him from spending considerable time analyzing his tactics and what went wrong, designing new weapons and defensive devices, building an army better trained and larger than the one he had when he was beaten, fully equipping them and then returning to the Avengers three seconds after he fled the previous battle, while they are still battered and bruised? As the writer noted, this would be the height of excitement for the Avengers, but get stale pretty fast for the reader. So therefore, Kang doesn't do that. And clone technology won't have an impact on the game world to any extent greater or lesser than desired by the gamers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Well, existence of (unauthorized) clones would lead to some interesting legal issues--"it wasn't me, it was my evil clone" may actually become a viable criminal defense, for one. And it could be a defense to paternity suits, too. If an adult film is made using the clones of famous celebrities, can those celebrities do anything to prevent its release? Would the existence of super-clones cause problems with criminal investigations--"yeah, we'd like to share that info with you, PowerPrince, but how do we know you're not an evil clone?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Well' date=' existence of (unauthorized) clones would lead to some interesting legal issues--"it wasn't me, it was my evil clone" may actually become a viable criminal defense, for one. And it could be a defense to paternity suits, too. If an adult film is made using the clones of famous celebrities, can those celebrities do anything to prevent its release? Would the existence of super-clones cause problems with criminal investigations--"yeah, we'd like to share that info with you, PowerPrince, but how do we know you're not an evil clone?"[/quote'] You have to make precautions similar to the ones you make against shapeshifter/impersonator guys. You can always just add something to the body/mind/soul/whatever of the real one, so they can be distinguished. Codephrases/security codes help too and are usually the first line of defense anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! What if you happen (through no fault of your own) to BE the clone of someone famous. Does that mean you're not allowed to do porn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! What if you happen (through no fault of your own) to BE the clone of someone famous. Does that mean you're not allowed to do porn? As long as you don't claim to be the original, there is nothing against it I guess. If, then it would be illegal for identic twins or the one natural doppleganger everyone is supposed to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! What if you happen (through no fault of your own) to BE the clone of someone famous. Does that mean you're not allowed to do porn? Hmm. I think you probably still could, but it would have to carry a prominent disclaimer, and it couldn't be promoted in any way, shape or form using the "likeness" of the celebrity. Which would tend to undermine the whole point of using a look-alike in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! We seem to have little difficulty (over)producing nuclear warheads now. Would cloning technology be 5 men for a quarter? Lots of genre tropes don't hold up to close scrutiny. Time travel characters, for example, suffer from Plot Induced Stupidity. In fact, back in the '70's (IIRC), an Avengers writer went on record in that regard. Viewed reasonably, if Kang gets beaten by the Avengers, and retreats to his own time, what stops him from spending considerable time analyzing his tactics and what went wrong, designing new weapons and defensive devices, building an army better trained and larger than the one he had when he was beaten, fully equipping them and then returning to the Avengers three seconds after he fled the previous battle, while they are still battered and bruised? As the writer noted, this would be the height of excitement for the Avengers, but get stale pretty fast for the reader. So therefore, Kang doesn't do that. And clone technology won't have an impact on the game world to any extent greater or lesser than desired by the gamers. The way time travel is depicted in Avengers makes such a strategy impossible. It is not possible to travel in time with pinpoint accuracy particularly in the vicinity of any time where people have time travelled because having tampered with history creates "turbulence in the time stream" . The more Kang time travels, the more screwed up the "river of time" becomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Hmm. I think you probably still could' date=' but it would have to carry a prominent disclaimer, and it couldn't be promoted in any way, shape or form using the "likeness" of the celebrity. Which would tend to undermine the whole point of using a look-alike in the first place.[/quote'] If clones were that easy to make, I'm willing to bet the porn industry would crank out movies like The Bohner Identity, starring Matt Raymond as Jason Bohner and Franka Pontangue as Mary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balabanto Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Well' date=' existence of (unauthorized) clones would lead to some interesting legal issues--"it wasn't me, it was my evil clone" may actually become a viable criminal defense, for one. And it could be a defense to paternity suits, too. If an adult film is made using the clones of famous celebrities, can those celebrities do anything to prevent its release? Would the existence of super-clones cause problems with criminal investigations--"yeah, we'd like to share that info with you, PowerPrince, but how do we know you're not an evil clone?"[/quote'] Exactly why the laws of my world are so strict regarding this. And repped. It's the same reason Mind Control isn't considered an acceptable defense in court, too. And repped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! The way time travel is depicted in Avengers makes such a strategy impossible. It is not possible to travel in time with pinpoint accuracy particularly in the vicinity of any time where people have time travelled because having tampered with history creates "turbulence in the time stream" . The more Kang time travels' date=' the more screwed up the "river of time" becomes.[/quote'] Yet Kang never has difficulty making it back to the late 20th and early 21st century, and always later than the last time and earlier than the next time. Unless, of course, the plot calls for him to be elsewhen (the one time he appeared in the Wild West). I would suggest the "turbulence in the timestream" angle was created to explain why Kang does not use these tactics, not that it was considered in any of the character's early appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Yet Kang never has difficulty making it back to the late 20th and early 21st century' date=' and always later than the last time and earlier than the next time.[/quote'] That doesn't require "pinpoint accuracy". One Month more or less don't make a difference for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! Time traveling characters should always have Multiform, IMO. At least three different forms: a base form, an inexperienced form, and an experienced form. And every time they show up, it should be random which form appears...it's unlikely his least experienced form would always appear in our time before his more experienced forms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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