Twilight Posted October 16, 2003 Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by Hermit Don't sell Nighthawk short... Ben could be right, especially if Nighthawk has a chance to prepare and ambush. He's very versitile. Possibly, but in a straight one on one fight, with neither side having a distinct advantage you have to admit that Nighthawk is at a severe disadvantage. Of course that could be a distinct "Batman is the bestest" bias floating over to his clone. I really hate it when people claim certain folks are unstoppale just because they're darknight avengers, y'know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 16, 2003 Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by Twilight Of course that could be a distinct "Batman is the bestest" bias floating over to his clone. I really hate it when people claim certain folks are unstoppale just because they're darknight avengers, y'know? Well, that's why I mentioned the ambush prep thing, yes, that's where dark avenger types tend to work best. Just like Bricks tend to work best in the 'in your face, hand to hand right now' situation. There are exceptions of course. And yeah, there is a "Batman is the bestest" clique among fanboys that takes it to extremes, but I don't think that's why Nighthawk has a chance. Compared to the other characters: Better SPD than Defender, Ironclad, and Witchcraft. Good Defenses and his martial arts with DCV makes him harder for them to peg. Versitile powers to tailor to the other champs. And good Dex so he is likely to go first. That doesn't mean Nighthawk wouldn't lose. Heck, Witchcrat might turn him into a frog if she made her Ego roll. But he could definitely be "a contender" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted October 16, 2003 Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 Nighthawk is predictable. The character design is not at all innovative, very ho hum. Nighthawk's costume doesn't do it for me. I think of him chasing a bad guy through a slum apartment and banging his headpiece on the doorframe. It's just sad. As far as Lemming's Nighthawk - He's a great homage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbwar Posted October 16, 2003 Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by GestaltBennie But Marvel's Nighthawk was never one of the big leaguers, and enough time has passed since his published heyday that most people probably won't have a problem with this. Scott Bennie Actually, there is a new take on the Squadron Supreme out now, called Supreme Power. It's written by J. Michael Stracynzki. The first issue had some rough sketches of what Nighthawk will look like in the series costume wise, and he doesn't look anything like the old costume designs. Nighthawk was also a fairly popular character, as evidenced by his longterm appearance in the Defenders comic, and a mini-series a few years ago that brought him back after he seemingly died (shortly before the Squadron Supreme mini-series that brought back the original Nighthawk). As to using Nighthawk for the Champions, I don't see a problem with it. As others have pointed out, names get used and reused over and over in comics. Granted, the bigger names are not copied (for obvious reasons, like avoiding legal hassles), but the middle tier to lesser ones are less likely to draw a fuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader108 Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 I think we may have Seeker 5E. Nah, for all Seeker's flaws (and God knows he had plenty of them) at least he was unique. I've scoured my comic/movie collection searching for another Aussie Ninja (or Martial Artist) for that matter and with the exception of Crocodile Dundee (M.A. Knife fighting....and that's a stretch), Steve Irwin (M.A. Croc Wrestling....even more of a stretch), the thankfully dead Marvel supervillain, the Kangaroo or the badly voiced first attempt at an X-Men cartoon where they tried to give Wolverine an Aussie accent (shudder), Seeker is an "original" (or at least as original as any "Occidental Ninja" can be. You can hardly open a comic today without seeing a "Nighthawk" (ex. Batman, Nightwing, Spawn, Midnighter, Black Rapier, Daredevil, Darkwing Duck, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 First off, I like Nighthawk. Enjoy intense, but not over-the-top characters. Minor quibbles: 1. Weak origin - He becomes a super-intense, criminal-hating street level crimefighter because of...slight facial scarring? Erm, his COM dropped to 10, wow his life is certainly ruined. Shoulda killed off his kid sister or something as well. Throw in some guilt that he was powerless to protect her or something. 2. Mask/Helmet - A 'duck'? I dunno, I just think the beak sticking out a foot from your head with big bird-eyes (in SOME illustrations) makes him look more like a goofy sports team mascot than an intense, supposedly somewhat scary crimefighter. 3. Nightwind - Nightwind/Nighthawk in the same city, and working together fairly often. Name similiarity jokes probably come up often. PS - Loved Seeker as I've pointed out before. Very original and loveable character in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loraxxx Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by Ben Seeman ...I'm sure you'd all complain about how he's a rip off of DarkWing Duck, who is a rip off of Batman anyway. ACTUALLY darkwing dark is a (quite hilarious) rip-off of THE SHADOW, as are batman, and numerous others, to some degree...(minus the humor, of course) take equal parts SHADOW, and DOC SAVAGE--and sprinkle in a little of THE PHANTOM (AKA THE GHOST WHO WALKS) for flavor--ay voila! yo have THE BATMAN.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 Originally posted by loraxxx ACTUALLY darkwing dark is a (quite hilarious) rip-off of THE SHADOW, as are batman, and numerous others, to some degree...(minus the humor, of course) take equal parts SHADOW, and DOC SAVAGE--and sprinkle in a little of THE PHANTOM (AKA THE GHOST WHO WALKS) for flavor--ay voila! yo have THE BATMAN.... Actually on your actually, I read that the creators of Batman were inspired by Zorro which was inspired by the Scarlet Pimpernel who was probably inspired by Robin Hood who was inspired by the wishes of peasants. So, there you go. Batman was inspired by the wishes of peasants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X Actually on your actually, I read that the creators of Batman were inspired by Zorro which was inspired by the Scarlet Pimpernel who was probably inspired by Robin Hood who was inspired by the wishes of peasants. So, there you go. Batman was inspired by the wishes of peasants. Hmmm ,so Bruce is in a long line of just nobles who actually work either against or around the system in order to pursue the greater good? Sounds good to me. You know, I've never played a "Millionare Playboy" as a PC, I always felt I was somehow 'cheating' if I tried....but now I might just have inspiration to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 Originally posted by Starlord First off, I like Nighthawk. Enjoy intense, but not over-the-top characters. 1. Weak origin - He becomes a super-intense, criminal-hating street level crimefighter because of...slight facial scarring? Erm, his COM dropped to 10, wow his life is certainly ruined. Shoulda killed off his kid sister or something as well. Throw in some guilt that he was powerless to protect her or something. Okay, Starlord has a point there. LIke I said, I've grown to like Nighthawk (And it seems like Starlord already liked him at the start) but the catalyst for his being a super hero seems a bit week. One would think that as soon as he found and took out enough VIPER agents (Esp if he found THE Ones that scarred him) he'd retire. It doesn't seem to explain the degree of his psychological limitation's intensity. However, it is a minor quibble, and easily touched up. Perhaps there is something deeper? Part of me wonders if Mark didn't have some sort of childhood trauma that he kept bottled up, until the situation with VIPER (Being somehow similar?) opened it all up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X Actually on your actually, I read that the creators of Batman were inspired by Zorro which was inspired by the Scarlet Pimpernel who was probably inspired by Robin Hood who was inspired by the wishes of peasants. So, there you go. Batman was inspired by the wishes of peasants. I'm not sure about the Robin Hood/Scarlet Pimpernel connection. The Pimpernel was a hostile response to the French Revolution. He was more on the side of the Sheriff of Nottingham than of Robin Hood. Hmm. I might have to check out his literary precursors in more detail. I've always loathed the character, but he must have come from somewhere. It probably would have been from one of the heroic noble/knight traditions ultimately. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 - I believe the 'rip-off' argument is weak. Aren't all characters inspired by other characters, who are inspired by other characters, etc? I don't think there are any 'new' ideas when it comes to literary characters. -Re: The Champions fight - My first inclination would go to Ironclad to be the winner, particularly if he had large things to throw available. He has the SPD and fighting ability to keep pace with everyone except Nighthawk. He would be unaffected by Witchcraft's Transform. His Defenses would help with Nighthawk and the other's Ranged attacks. His Find Weakness punch would removed any of them from the fight immediately. His Leaping might allow him to get within reach of the flyers. So, especially given that he had large things to throw and use for area attacks, I think he'd be the best chance to come thru in a one-on-one Champions tournament. -An interesting fight would be between Nighthawk and Kinetik, if you allowed him to participate. He's faster, and he might just do enough damage to make it thru Nighthawk's defenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandi Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 Originally posted by loraxxx ACTUALLY darkwing dark is a (quite hilarious) rip-off of THE SHADOW... I've always thought of him as a bit more like The (non-Morpheus) Sandman-- his gas gun's that kind of weapon, anyway... Anybody ever thought of stealing Darkwing's better entry lines for Foxbat? And, to go back on subject for a moment, bird helmets have been done before, and not badly either: [Fans of Gatchaman-- wouldn't Joe Asakura actually make a good basis for Nighthawk, particularly his particular problems with Gallactor?] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oruncrest Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 Originally posted by Brandi [Fans of Gatchaman-- wouldn't Joe Asakura actually make a good basis for Nighthawk, particularly his particular problems with Gallactor?] Mr. Walking Wounded? Nah, but if you took that bird mask off and dyed his hair blond, he'd be a good stunt double for Seeker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 Originally posted by assault I'm not sure about the Robin Hood/Scarlet Pimpernel connection. The Pimpernel was a hostile response to the French Revolution. He was more on the side of the Sheriff of Nottingham than of Robin Hood. Hmm. I might have to check out his literary precursors in more detail. I've always loathed the character, but he must have come from somewhere. It probably would have been from one of the heroic noble/knight traditions ultimately. Alan Robin Hood was fighting against a usurper to the throne. He supported the Rightful King of England. That is hardly anti-establishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by Starlord First off, I like Nighthawk. Enjoy intense, but not over-the-top characters. Minor quibbles: 1. Weak origin - He becomes a super-intense, criminal-hating street level crimefighter because of...slight facial scarring? Erm, his COM dropped to 10, wow his life is certainly ruined. Shoulda killed off his kid sister or something as well. Throw in some guilt that he was powerless to protect her or something. Yes!! Pretty much the first thing I thought when reading his origin: "Damn, he seems to be over-reacting abit in the level of sheer anger. This is a great origin. . . . . .if he were a frickin' monomaniacal villain!!" Seeker 5e!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Nighthawk's okay I've changed the character a lot though ... made him more like "Batman meets The Shroud and Cloak" Here's an image of what he looks like in my game. BTW ... does anyone know where I can see a pic of Nightwind? I never got WotD and would love to see him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Liberty Posted January 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Nightwind's appearance Nightwind appears in Millenium city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Re: Nightwind's appearance Originally posted by Captain Liberty Nightwind appears in Millenium city. He also appears periodically in the rotating sidebar art here on the website: short dark hair, grey body suit, domino mask, holstered guns, martial-art stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandi Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 I also noticed Nighthawk seems to get the worst of it in the UNTIL Superpowers Database book... Set on fire by Mentallon... Attacked by mind-controlled children... Pummeled with TK-powered silverware... ... and probably the most insulting, his brief encounter with Hazard or whatever the luck-powered villain was called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengal Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Two points: "Knighthawk" was a dark-n-gritty "hero" published briefly by Malibu in the 90s. His powers included power-armor wings and big honkin guns, which he used to shoot people. Nighthawk was also the name of my favorite PC superhero. I got really bummed out when he turned up in 5E. So, I rewrote him on 350 points (instead of the 292 he was at at the time) and changed his name to Blackhawk. I figure, if I can steal one obscure name, I can steal two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Originally posted by Bengal Two points: "Knighthawk" was a dark-n-gritty "hero" published briefly by Malibu in the 90s. His powers included power-armor wings and big honkin guns, which he used to shoot people. Nighthawk was also the name of my favorite PC superhero. I got really bummed out when he turned up in 5E. So, I rewrote him on 350 points (instead of the 292 he was at at the time) and changed his name to Blackhawk. I figure, if I can steal one obscure name, I can steal two. I was about to talk about my first Nighthawk and then went, oh. Already did that. I think mine is around 700 points. Quite the skill twid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Originally posted by Agent X Actually on your actually, I read that the creators of Batman were inspired by Zorro which was inspired by the Scarlet Pimpernel who was probably inspired by Robin Hood who was inspired by the wishes of peasants. So, there you go. Batman was inspired by the wishes of peasants. The original drawing was also influenced by one of da Vinchi's batwinged flying machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Why Nighthawk? Probably because Nightturkey, Nightostrich, and Nightchicken just don't sound good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheImperialKhan Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 I don't know. Nightostrich has a certain ring to it. A silly ring, but a ring none the less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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