Help!!!!!!

[Greybook PLayer]

This is a call out for advice.

 

The last time I played Champions was a combination of the grey book and 4ed produced by I.C.E. - I've looked at the online store and I am totally overwhelmed by the Hero Games line now I wouldn't know where to start....

 

What I am asking for is advice on which books to buy to run a summer campaign of Champions for my two sons and a couple of their friends....and no, I don't want to reintroduce the Gweenies LOL

[Turmoil]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

Hi

 

https://www.herogames.com/viewItem.htm?itemID=242420

 

The link above will take you to the 'Basic Rules' on the Hero Games website. 130+ pages $19.00 and everything you need to get started.

[RexMundi]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

If you are looking to jump back in completely: Hero System Vol 1 and Vol 2. Then you can Add on as desired, with Genre book of Choice, and goodies like the Hero System Martial Arts Book, Hero System Equipment, etc etc ....

 

Myself for example, I ran with Vol 1+2, picked up a Basic Book for folks to leaf through at the table, got the HSMA and the APG for myself, added on the Bestiary and the Champions and Fantasy Hero books, then picked up Champions Powers for the players. Haven't bothered with a lot of the other books but may get around to picking them up later. Vol 1+2 pretty much does it all though.

 

~Rex

[Lucius]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

Turmoil is correct in that the work he links to is the bare minimum "buy-in" and includes all you absolutely need.

 

Other purchases to consider:

 

The Hero System 6th Edition Vol 1: Character Creation and Vol 2: Combat and Adventuring. The Basic Rules are a "stripped down" version of what's in these two. They are considerably more expensive but usually sold as a "bundle." I think you may be able to get a PDF version for less. Someone who knows will probably be along shortly to say.

 

Champions 6th Edition. This is a "genre book" that details how to apply the rules to creating superhero games. If that's the direction you wanted to go in, you might want to consider it.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Enterprises

[Greybook PLayer]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

thanx for that - but I was thinking rather than the basic book and then upgrading I was thinking of the decent core rules - I'm not new to Champions just out of touch - I found 4th Edition in the loft!! I was wondering if, at all, anything is compatable with 4 edition.

 

having browsed the online shop I was thinking of Character creation and combat and just reworking the heros and villains from 4 ed,if possibel - I do remember the number crunching hero gen system but at least you get EXACTLY the hero you want (at least 90% accurate)

 

i just cant wait to see my son's face when he misses with his energy projector and hits a bystander!!

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

Hero Designer is a great purchase.

[Christopher]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

The Hero System 6th Edition Vol 1: Character Creation and Vol 2: Combat and Adventuring. The Basic Rules are a "stripped down" version of what's in these two. They are considerably more expensive but usually sold as a "bundle." I think you may be able to get a PDF version for less. Someone who knows will probably be along shortly to say.

 

Champions 6th Edition. This is a "genre book" that details how to apply the rules to creating superhero games. If that's the direction you wanted to go in, you might want to consider it.

When you take only PDF's of the core books, they cost only 50$ as a bundle.

 

Otherwise I agree with Lucius:

Go for the Bundle First (these two are considered the Core Books by Steve Long and when you buy them Basic Rulebook is practically useless).

The Champions genre book is a good buy too. As is the APG (Advanced Player Guide) and HSMA (hero system martial arts).

Since you want to GM, better take the HERo designer. As good as HERO is, it's not the best system to write up characters by hand/with a text editor.

 

None of these buys have anything on setting, they are pure rules/genres.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

having browsed the online shop I was thinking of Character creation and combat and just reworking the heros and villains from 4 ed' date='if possibel[/quote']

 

Welcome back to the fold, GP! As I'm sure you've noticed by now, this is a pretty friendly and helpful community, especially for newcomers.

 

Regarding your desire to convert your old Fourth Edition characters to the Sixth Edition, I'm Attaching a couple of documents below that may make that easier for you. One is a PDF which summarizes the changes from Fifth Edition to Sixth. The differences between Fourth and Fifth Editions are small and shouldn't cause you much problems; but in case you'd like some help with that too, I'm also including a guide to changes between those editions.

[fbdaury]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

Or, if you decided to move from 4th to 5th, to avoid the massive changes made in 6th, your could get the 5th ed revised book and then, depending on the ages and tastes of your children, either PS238 for a younger group of heroes or Teen Champions for, well, the name really does say it all. Less cost, less books needed, and less learning curve for you to deal with things like the removal of figured characteristics and change in costs for stats.

[Spidey88]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

thanx for that - but I was thinking rather than the basic book and then upgrading I was thinking of the decent core rules - I'm not new to Champions just out of touch - I found 4th Edition in the loft!! I was wondering if, at all, anything is compatable with 4 edition.

 

having browsed the online shop I was thinking of Character creation and combat and just reworking the heros and villains from 4 ed,if possible - I do remember the number crunching hero gen system but at least you get EXACTLY the hero you want (at least 90% accurate)

 

i just cant wait to see my son's face when he misses with his energy projector and hits a bystander!!

 

As LL mentioned, the changes from 4th Edition to 5th edition were fairly minor. Some holes were filled, and pretty much EVERYTHING was expanded and clarified. The changes from 5th to 6th were bigger (the biggest of which, IMHO, the decoupling of figured characteristics from primary characteristics), but the core of the game (and most of the details, in fact) is still the same.

 

I can pretty much guarantee you that if you were to look over the writeup of a 6th Edition version of Foxbat, nearly everything on it would make sense to you (assuming you've still got a decent memory of 4th Edition). The biggest confusion factor for you would likely be the size - characters these days get a whole lot more character points, but it's mostly because the design philosophies behind building characters has changed.

 

In 4th Edition, it wasn't uncommon to see a published character have only 2 or 3 skills, total - these days, there's much more of an impetus to "fill in the blanks". Your character's a super-genius inventor and scientist? He'll probably have several science skills, Systems Operation, Inventor, Electronics and/or Mechanics, PS:Scientist, and more - and them you get into Combat, Social, and Background skills... Bottom line: more of your character is defined on the sheet these days, but overall power levels haven't drastically spiked too much (until you start getting into master villain territory). Grond still has a 90 STR, Dr. Destroyer still has a 35 INT, and Foxbat still has a 23 DEX.

 

FYI - a pretty hefty proportion of the classic villains (like those three, and more) are still kicking around in both 5th and 6th edition and doing fine. It might be worth your time checking out the various villain books.

 

As mentioned, Hero Designer is great, and can really save you a lot of time and number crunching.

[Spidey88]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

Or' date=' if you decided to move from 4th to 5th, to avoid the massive changes made in 6th, your could get the 5th ed revised book and then, depending on the ages and tastes of your children, either PS238 for a younger group of heroes or Teen Champions for, well, the name really does say it all. Less cost, less books needed, and less learning curve for you to deal with things like the removal of figured characteristics and change in costs for stats.[/quote']

 

Not to mention the HUGE number of cool books for 5th Edition (about 50 for the Champions/generic HERO stuff alone, without counting Star Hero, Fantasy Hero, etc.) that have been produced, and are now el cheapo in the online store. 5th Edition, Revised has been out of print for some time now, unfortunately - I was able to find it on Amazon for about $35 a couple of months ago.

[Christopher]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

Or' date=' if you decided to move from 4th to 5th, to avoid the massive changes made in 6th, your could get the 5th ed revised book and then, depending on the ages and tastes of your children, either PS238 for a younger group of heroes or Teen Champions for, well, the name really does say it all. Less cost, less books needed, and less learning curve for you to deal with things like the removal of figured characteristics and change in costs for stats.[/quote']

Yes, there is a policy that says: Everything from older editions is only half the price.

 

If it is a good idea to only upgrade to 5E is another question, however. I guess if you plan on getting in the saddle and be fit for 7E Edition, or you require a lot of help in the forums*, better go straight to 6E.

 

(*there are suprisingly few who have 5E and are willing to invest time helping people around here. You get far better results for 6E)

[RexMundi]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

Go to 6e.

 

~Rex

[gojira]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

having browsed the online shop I was thinking of Character creation and combat and just reworking the heros and villains from 4 ed' date='if possibel - I do remember the number crunching hero gen system but at least you get EXACTLY the hero you want (at least 90% accurate)[/quote']

 

 

If you're going to go with 6E Character Creation, I'd get the 6E Combat and Adventuring too. I don't think you'll have quite enough rules to actually play the game once you have new characters if you only get the one book.

 

I think my actual recomendation would be to get the 6E Basic Rules and also get 6E Champions too. The Basic Rules book has enough rules, and is a much easier read, esp. I think for kids. And the Champions book is a nice full color book with lots of ideas and examples. The quick character generator will probably be worth a lot to you and your kids.

 

My 2 nickels.

[RexMundi]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

Seriously. 6E vol.1 and Vol.2. Then Hero System Martial Arts. After that, Champs Powers (if you want prebuilt powers), Hero System Equipment Guide (Prebuilt Gear). After that, Genre Book and Add On's as Desired. Bestiary is handy for critters. Forward Momentum.

 

~Rex

[Christopher]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

If you're going to go with 6E Character Creation' date=' I'd get the 6E Combat and Adventuring too. I don't think you'll have quite enough rules to actually play the game once you have new characters if you only get the one book.[/quote']

Absolutely not. None of the two books alone is suficcient to play the game. There are praktically useless without each other and all other books are practically useless without those two.

[RexMundi]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

Seriously. 6E vol.1 and Vol.2. Then Hero System Martial Arts. After that, Champs Powers (if you want prebuilt powers), Hero System Equipment Guide (Prebuilt Gear). After that, Genre Book and Add On's as Desired. Bestiary is handy for critters. Forward Momentum.

 

~Rex

 

Saying it again.

 

~Rex

[Tasha]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

To play Champions I would Recommend

 

Sixth Editions Rules Vol 1 and 2 (AKA 6e1 and 6e2), Champions, Hero Designer (this makes everything SOOOOO easy).

 

Other Recommended things that make Adventure and or Char Gen easier

Champions Powers (a Bunch of Powers prestatted out at various powerlevels),

Champions Villains (AKA Enemy Books. Buy which ever ones of the 3 vols that sound interesting)

Hero Designer Character Packs for the above volumes can save tons of time doing data entry.

 

I really wouldn't worry too much about the "Hero System Martial Arts" (HSMA) unless you are going to run a game where many characters have Martial Arts. Also the Advanced Players Guide while interesting could safely missed esp if you use the cash to buy one of the other Champions line books.

 

To get back into the swing of building characters, my essay on building characters (linked in my signature block) can help out by giving you real numbers that will help you build decent PC's and Villains.

 

Oh and learning 6e after playing 4e is pretty easy. Most of the combat rules are the same. Character gen is similar, but costs have changed on Characteristics and on a couple of abilities. Just be aware that characters are more expensive in 6e. Mostly because Characteristics cost more because you have to pay for having secondary characteristics being above minimum (ie no figured Chars). Also, there has been a real push to have Supers have non combat skills along with their powers.

[Christopher]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

I really wouldn't worry too much about the "Hero System Martial Arts" (HSMA) unless you are going to run a game where many characters have Martial Arts. Also the Advanced Players Guide while interesting could safely missed esp if you use the cash to buy one of the other Champions line books.

The Rules Construct named Martial Arts has nothign to do with "goes into a tibetian monestary and trains". It can equally easily used to mimik the fightign style of a Boa Constrictor, or a Tiger. There are even some superhuman martial arts like "Morphocombat" (finghting using your shapeshift), "Hypercombat" (tricks for speedsters; the Kinetik writeup in Champions 6E uses parts) and even rule for ranged Martial Arts (you can do things with that, no power allows you).

 

And APG has soem interesting new Powers and Rules constructs, including Posession or how to build a Megazord.

[Tasha]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

The Rules Construct named Martial Arts has nothign to do with "goes into a tibetian monestary and trains". It can equally easily used to mimik the fightign style of a Boa Constrictor, or a Tiger. There are even some superhuman martial arts like "Morphocombat" (finghting using your shapeshift), "Hypercombat" (tricks for speedsters; the Kinetik writeup in Champions 6E uses parts) and even rule for ranged Martial Arts (you can do things with that, no power allows you).

 

And APG has soem interesting new Powers and Rules constructs, including Posession or how to build a Megazord.

 

Yes, I know that and I own both books. I just don't consider them must haves for a CU Champions game. If you are the kind of GM/Player that wants the additional options for Martial Arts or wants a collection of Optional rules. Then yes go ahead and buy them they are great books.

 

If someone is on a budget and looking for a great "Bang for his buck" I stick by my recommendations. Helping new players make coherent power constructs, Champions powers is the best. Heck, I have been playing the game since the beginning of Champions and I look in the book for inspiration from time to time.

 

Champions itself has a great section that has character archetypes with options that is extremely useful.

 

Villains books are always great for getting a feel for a system and also for quickly coming up with scenarios. It's nice not having to do all of the work writing up the badguys.

 

Hero Designer is the best thing anyone could purchase for the system (after 6e1 and 6e2). It makes Character gen VERY fast and allows for tuning to a level that just isn't possible with Pen and Paper or an Excel Spreadsheet.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

If it is a good idea to only upgrade to 5E is another question, however. I guess if you plan on getting in the saddle and be fit for 7E Edition, or you require a lot of help in the forums*, better go straight to 6E.

 

(*there are suprisingly few who have 5E and are willing to invest time helping people around here. You get far better results for 6E)

Well, that's just blatantly false.

[Tasha]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

If it is a good idea to only upgrade to 5E is another question, however. I guess if you plan on getting in the saddle and be fit for 7E Edition, or you require a lot of help in the forums*, better go straight to 6E.

 

(*there are suprisingly few who have 5E and are willing to invest time helping people around here. You get far better results for 6E)

 

Most people quote from 6e when rules questions come up (unless it's a Char Gen question from 5e). Most times the 6e rule will be the same as the one in 5e usually being word for word copies from 5e. People quite 6e because it's a reasonable expectation that people will have questions about the current edition and not the older one. If it comes right down to it I can answer questions about editions back to 2e. Of course if you are playing an early edition I will recommend that you upgrade to 6e. There were many clarifications and logical changes to the rules that someone running an earlier edition would profit from using.

 

Everyone here is pretty nice and just want to help others. We all want more people playing our favorite rules system. The more people playing hero, the more people that we have to play with all across the country.

[RexMundi]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

I moved on to 6e, but I still answer questions for and work with 1st,2nd,3rd,4th,5th.... Been a fun ride, and each edition Improves.

 

~Rex

[Christopher]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

Well' date=' that's just blatantly false.[/quote']

Then why do people often have to ask a second time before their questions are even noticed? Sometimes I give a answer for 6E, just to get him some hint on what the rules could say in 5E.

 

How much you want to help and how much you effectively have time and nevers so search a rule and answer are two different pair of shoes.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help!!!!!!

 

Then why do people often have to ask a second time before their questions are even noticed? Sometimes I give a answer for 6E, just to get him some hint on what the rules could say in 5E.

 

How much you want to help and how much you effectively have time and nevers so search a rule and answer are two different pair of shoes.

 

Not everyone checks the boards every day.

Like others, I still have previous editions of the rules going back to 1st edition and often try to help answer rules questions involving the previous editions.

However, not all questions regarding pre-6e rules are clear on that point.

It sometimes gets tedious when a qualifying question (are you using 5e or 6e?) has to be asked before helping someone.

I like most of the changes in 6e but find it frustrating that there is such a small percentage of board posts that are 6e centric.

 

Hero Games is a business and arguably hosts this website with the intent to support sales of current books.

Moving forward the game is only going to be successful if new gamers pick up the newest version of the game.

New gamers that only play previous editions whose rules are out of print really aren't growing the fan base or helping the company meet the bottom line.