Patriot Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 Picked it up sunday.... It is great. But Whats did I miss, what happened to Viper force 1 and 2 And Viperia for that matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 NO VIPERIA?! What good is it. I buy no Viper Book without Viperia! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 Umm... Viperia is in the book, and she is tougher than ever. And all of the villains have been folded into a single Dragon Branch of VIPER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempuswolf Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 No Viperia??? Viperia starts on page 154. Yes, Viper Force 1 and 2 have gone the way of Defender and Obsidian, Long Live The Dragon Guard, err Branch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 Well that's different, then (I haven't seen it). Viperia rocks. VF1 & 2 aren't sticking points for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GestaltBennie Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 VF-1 is a victim of the Dragon Branch downsizing. It's a pity; I always loved throwing them up against my PCs in the old SUNDER campaign and they produced some memorable battles. If I hadn't wanted to get them into print, I would never have been involved with the original VIPER book. As for VF-2, check out VIPER-X's writeup. Scott Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpCommander Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 I like it Its a really decent book. Its well written hand has a lot to offer even the casual Hero GM. I thought the art work was much better than in a lot of the other books. Even the art signed by NATO (don't know the artists name) was pretty good which is saying a lot because I HATE most of his work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmenace Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 CorpCommander, this is a free and open forum and you are entirely within your rights to express yourself. I don't want to stomp on that even if I had the authority to do so. However, Nato is pretty active on the bourds and he may very well read that. If you have legitimate criticism then at least be specific about what and or why you don't like his stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Posted October 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 dont get me wrong I like all the background material...it has expanded the group alot, I dont agree that this Viperia is stronger overall then the first one...And I personally like the first ones background alot better...As for the viper forces....I think they played very well, Im not sure if the Branch feels right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Re: dont get me wrong Originally posted by Patriot I dont agree that this Viperia is stronger overall then the first one...And I personally like the first ones background alot better... The 5E Viperia does more damage, has slightly more defenses, has 30% more STUN, and has more combat options. She is tougher. As far as the origin goes, things like that are subjective. Personally I never cared for the 4E version's origin as nothing more than a powerful mutant. As for the viper forces....I think they played very well, Im not sure if the Branch feels right. I would think for a global organization like VIPER a "pool" of villains from which they can pick who they want where, makes more sense than two or three teams of villains working within the organization. But either version is valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpCommander Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 OT: what I like and don't like about some of the artwork Originally posted by Redmenace However, Nato is pretty active on the bourds and he may very well read that. If you have legitimate criticism then at least be specific about what and or why you don't like his stuff. It was a back-handed compliment, I admit that. There is no accounting for taste. To reiterate, the new stuff NATO has done for the Viper book was much more impressive. If you want specific stuff I didn't like here is a short list from the TUV: Pgs. 91, 92, 94, 98, 123, 144 THOUGH now that I had to go look for it I found a couple of piece he did for that book I did like a lot. Pgs. 73 and 80 have some nice stuff. I think the weakness of the other pieces made me have a jaundiced eye. Now that I have seen what he is capable of with Viper I can pretty much forgive the other stuff. So, yeah, I have a negative opinion about some of his stuff but my point was that his work was pretty strong in the Viper book. When I think about what it was I hated the most, that pirate ship in TUV pretty much is branded in my brain. Compare that to the C-141 like aircraft on pg. 73 of TUV. So, in trying to say something nice it came off as negative and I am sorry for that. What did you expect? I have Stalin as my avatar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmenace Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 I've had it up to here with all your Stalin bashing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altamaros Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Re: dont get me wrong Originally posted by Patriot As for the viper forces....I think they played very well, Im not sure if the Branch feels right. I think i recall that Steve Long once said on the boards that he considered the 4ed VIPER book as "overpopulated". maybe it's something of the correction (?) I was fearing myself that my old 4ed VIPER book would become obsolete but frankly i'm quite happy with the change : the two books are actually completing each other. with minor changes, you still can add the characters from the 4ed VB to the 5ed VB. The questions i've got so far are about dr Blank and Boa Constrictor; apparently COIL doesn't exist yet. i wonder if it will be for a future "Champion Universe year X" product or something. i would like to see the champions universe in movement. and Patriot, the good thing about Viperia is that now, you(ve got something against Stellar if the player ever comes back to your table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Re: Re: dont get me wrong Originally posted by altamaros I think i recall that Steve Long once said on the boards that he considered the 4ed VIPER book as "overpopulated". maybe it's something of the correction (?) That might be the case but, personally, I would have liked to have seen the other 18 members of the Dragon Branch statted out. One of the big plusses of the 4E VIPER book, to me, was that it had some 40-50 villain write-up in it. What can I say, I like lots of villain choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 I prefer Dragon Branch to VF-1 and VF-2 because: a) The DM has more mix-and-match options -- it's not two set teams, it's a bunch of individuals who can be tapped for modular squads. (Granted, it'd help if they all had writeups, but that's what the prefab sections in the Champions sourcebook and the UNTIL Superpowers Database is for.) Less VIPER teamwork. It's entirely appropriate for VIPER agents to coordinate like greased gears(*) -- they're making up for their relative lack of power vs. supers with numbers and professionalism. But the VIPER supers are there to have the PCs do the same thing to them -- i.e., make up for a gap in the power curve against the villains by fighting with better teamwork. That's very heroic. The CU's resident 'less powerful than you but they coordinate so well that you should be sweating anyway' villain team is the War Machine. (*) Personally, I /really really/ like the thought that VIPER Elite Combat Specialists and Superhuman Combat Specialists have stats and skills that compare neck-and-neck with US military special operations elites -- it means VIPER is training its people to the highest professional standard, which befits 5e VIPER perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Great Reading (followed by evil chuckle) Great work by everyone involved and I really like VIPER - X . I would still like to see more VIPER agents worked out . Lazy GM . There was very little that I disliked , but (you knew their was one) I still want COLOR drawings . Oh and short sleaved shirts for agents is just plain wrong . Make more and make mine a HERO . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 VIPER was awesome, that's all I can say. Everything about it works for me, especially the world information and VIPER X. Granted, I also wished we got more VIPER villains written up and stats for more agents [i was mildly peeved that the Scarlet Serpents didn't get any write ups in the agent section at the end, just cause they had a very cool name.] LOVE the agent package deals, especially since it makes it so easy for an enterprising GM to come up with villains for VIPER. For example: Do you want to upgrade Buckshot from the old Dark Champions book into somebody your characters will FEAR? Just give him the VIPER Academy Self Improvement Package Deal, the General Combat Specialist deal and then the Superhuman Combat Specialist and Scarlet Serpent Package Deals. Suddenly that punk kid with big dreams from the mean streets of Hudson City is almost equal to a gadgeteer or martial artist if given the right gear. Give him the proper support and he could be a menace to an entire team of superheros. I like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Unfortunately there was only so much room in the back for generic agent character sheets. If I ever have the time/interest to assemble all the various cuts from the book into a short support product, I'll definitely include more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobCRogers Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 New VIPER adventure book I very much enjoyed the new VIPER book and will use lots of it in my campaign--side by side with the 4th Edition VIPER book I also love. I'm glad they didn't overlap too much. I don't agree with the decrease in VIPER supervillains in this edition, but I'll just ignore it in my campaign, so no big deal. Any hints on when this mysterious adventure book will be released? I don't see it on the 2003 or 2004 schedules yet. It's funny. I read through half the new VIPER book and decided to kill off King Cobra in my campaign, eventually folding COIL into VIPER. Now it looks like the opposite will happen in the real Champions Universe, with "Dr. Timothy Blank" splitting off from VIPER and forming a new organization. I hope that that's not the entire focus of the new adventure book; something more flexible would be more useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Any hints on when this mysterious adventure book will be released? Sharper Than A Serpent's Tooth is being written now, so in all likeliehood it'll be released in early 2004. Since it's an addition to the schedule it's not quite as predictable as books we've had planned for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nato Posted October 16, 2003 Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 Re: I like it Originally posted by CorpCommander Even the art signed by NATO (don't know the artists name) was pretty good which is saying a lot because I HATE most of his work. *chuckles* That's O.K. I HATE most of your posts. But for the life of me, I can't remember ever drawing a pirate ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpCommander Posted October 16, 2003 Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 Re: Re: I like it Originally posted by Nato That's O.K. I HATE most of your posts. Fair enough Actually, I've found a lot of your work I do like on closer inspection. My comments were actually meant to be positive. Why do I taste atheletes foot in my mouth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedifensor Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 ***SPOILER SPACE*** ---------- I was rather annoyed to find a "mystical" origin for VIPER. The A.I. version in the 4e book may not have been perfect, but it had a better fit for a high-tech organization. Well, maybe when the DEMON book comes out we'll discover that it was founded by robots from outer space... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by Fedifensor ***SPOILER SPACE*** ---------- I was rather annoyed to find a "mystical" origin for VIPER. The A.I. version in the 4e book may not have been perfect, but it had a better fit for a high-tech organization. Well, maybe when the DEMON book comes out we'll discover that it was founded by robots from outer space... I dunno, I actually liked VIPER's mystical origin. Certainly it made more sense then the AI did. Plus it gives you more options and allows you to work VIPER into Golden Age campaigns and what not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 From hints related to the Supreme Serpent, Takofanes and the Crowns of Krim, I get the feeling that the influence of Krim/ the Dragon is being woven through the fabric of the Champions Universe, perhaps to be made clearer when the CU's Mystic World is further detailed. As for the 4E VIPER, I'm incorporating several of its elements into my version of ARGENT: the ultimate leadership, corporate structure and franchise system. They seem like a good fit, and are too cool to lie fallow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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