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Fairytale Hero


Shadowsoul

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Fairytales/folktales. Is there a Fantasy Hero niche for this kind of game setting? And what would a Fairytale Hero setting look like? Would it be more interesting to stick strongly to the source material, (the stories made famous by Grimm's Fairy Tales and also by Disney), or to blend in ideas and beings from other mythologies? Even original Fairytales are often linked to other mythologies e.g. Celtic, Arthurian, Arabian Nights.

 

Consider the background. Fairytales have provided rich pickings for fantasy authors and GMs alike for many years. Fairytale style fantasy novels such as Blue Moon Rising, the Castle In The Air, the Xanth novels and the Wizard in Rhyme series form a little sub-genre within mainstream fantasy. More recently the Fables series of Graphic novels has depicted a dark and mature Urban Fantasy take on the world of fairytales. The even more recent tv series Grimm attempts to do the same. Fairytales are also big on screen in the form of films such as Shrek or Snow White and the Huntsman.

 

Fairytale Hero could also cover classic novels such as Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan and the Wizard of Oz, which have, (in my mind), a similar feel to Fairytales or are at least aimed at children, just as modern Fairytales usually are.

 

 

For the moment I'm just going to throw together some key themes and ideas which I think are common in Fairytales and to a lesser extent Fairytale fantasy novels, (which are not the same as their source material).

 

Ordinary People have adventures. In the original stories main characters are quite often ordinary people, although they may be knights or princes. A low-level party of adventurers in a generic fantasy setting might include an aspiring priest, a young sorcerer, a skillful but green warrior woman and an apprentice thief. A Fairytale party on the other hand might include a woodcutter, the third son of the King, (who has not received much attention or training),an apprentice baker and a talking cat.

 

Magic items are common. To balance out their lack of power Fairytale protagonists often stumble across magical artefacts or gain the help of a supernatural entity.

 

Qualitative Magic. Wizards and magical creatures in Fairytales are good at absolute abilities such as granting wishes or turning people into things. When wizards fight each other they are more likely to try and transform themselves or their opponents into things than they are to try and whittle down their opponents elemental defences with repeated fireballs or counterspells. Magical items do a certain thing e.g. creating a kingly meal or turning someone invisible and they never fail to carry out their purpose unless they are misused. Magical beings often have specific weaknesses and may be invulnerable to all other forms of attack, magical or mundane.

 

Talking Animals. These are common, with or without explanation. Some have magical powers or extraordinary skills. Some talking animals act like humans e.g. walking on their hind legs and building houses.

 

Violence is not always the answer. While it is not uncommon for Fairytale heroes to kill giants, dragons, ogres etc they are less likely to use standard combat tactics and may instead use tactics such as running, hiding, lying, disguising themselves, pushing people into ovens and using wishes. However, Fairytale style fantasy novels usually have as much blood and slaughter as any other high fantasy story.

 

Words Matter. Riddles, lies and word games quite often feature in Fairytales e.g. Rumpelstiltskin. Magical beings and even humans are usually bound by their word, sometimes even if this means their death or utter defeat.

 

Lots of Royals. Fairytale lands tend to have a lot of knights, kings, queens, princes and princesses. This is despite the fact that dragons prefer to dine on princesses or noble maidens and monsters of all kinds routinely slaughter dozens of knights and princes before one hero is lucky or clever enough to bring them down. It is possible that Fairytale Monsters are a necessary check on the population of knights and royals in Fairytale-Land, which would otherwise grow out of control and devastate the countryside like a plague of locusts.

 

One more idea to think about is Comedy versus Horror. The original Fairytales, (Pre-Grimm), were often quite horrific. The original Red Riding Hood was not saved by a woodcutter; she took all of her clothes off and then got devoured by the Wolf. I believe she was was supposed to be a cautionary tale warning young women to avoid dangerously attractive and/or hairy men. Modern retellings such as the Fables series focus on the darker aspects of these childrens' tales. Other stories, such as Shrek or Castle In The Air, are funny because they play around with the weird rules that Fairytales seem to have. Some stories, like Blue Moon Rising, manage to mock traditional Fairytales and force their heroes to wade through rivers of blood.

 

If someone were to run a Fairytale Hero game it would be important for the GM to agree with the players beforehand whether the campaign was supposed to be a light-hearted riff on Fairytale cliches, a devastating journey into the bloodsoaked nightmares of folk-legend or something in between.

 

So. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

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Re: Fairytale Hero

 

Hmmm, I have never considered this as an option and doubt it would work for my players. They are far too methodical and everything would have to have an explanation and make sense which is NOT a hallmark of fairytales. But an interesting genre just the same.

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Re: Fairytale Hero

 

Reve: the Dream Ouroboros (the English translation of French RPG Reve de Dragon) and 7 Leagues (both by Malcontent Games) are pretty fairy-tale-ish. Actually 7 Leagues is directly and expressly based on fairy tales. Reading either of them over should be inspirational if nothing else.

 

I'd lean towards the idea that Hero is a little too crunchy for fairytale type situations, but then again, Reve is fairly crunchy itself (in that old school way). I don't think I could pull it off with Hero, but I'd be willing to play in a Fairytale Hero game if the GM felt up to it.

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Re: Fairytale Hero

 

Hmmm' date=' I have never considered this as an option and doubt it would work for my players. They are far too methodical and everything would have to have an explanation and make sense which is NOT a hallmark of fairytales. But an interesting genre just the same.[/quote']

 

If you're GM, refuse to offer explanations. Offer contradictory answers. You have the right to preserve the genre.

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Re: Fairytale Hero

 

Okay... passed my exam yesterday so I had time to dig up my notes on the subject. To wit:

 

---

fairytale hero notes

 

 

Setting:

 

For all intents and purposes, FT Hero campaigns are going to be set in or near the woods. Other common terrain types include rivers, bridges, castles, and villages, but we can expect much of the action to occur in (or originate from) the deeper, more mysterious reaches of the forest. Other lands should exist in the campaign setting, such as Arabian kingdoms and pirate enclaves, but these are less likely to be the location for in-game action so much as origin locations for PCs, NPCs, or monsters.

 

 

Character tropes:

 

Humans:

Royalty - Setting is infested with royalty. Princesses are so commonplace that they travel by themselves

Occupational

Children - Children, both noble and common, are frequently featured in fairy tales. Children may have innate advantages in dealing with animals and magical creatures.

Magicians -

 

Humanoids:

Fairies - Small to human-sized; flight; innately magical

Elves/Dwarves/Gnomes

Trolls/Ogres

 

Nonhumans:

Animals - Talking animals are very prevalent in fairytales. The degree to which animals can speak varies, but very old or ensorcelled animals can often speak fluently, while less talented animals might only be able to speak a few words or else have to pantomime there communications. On top of this, some humans will have the innate or magical ability to speak with animals that themselves cannot speak English. (Red Riding Hood, Three Little Pigs, most Disney films)

 

Automata - Somewhat unusually, humanoid constructs can become animate and independent either through magic or for no particular reason. (Pinocchio, Wizard of Oz)

 

Monsters:

Ogres

Trolls

Giants

Dragons

"Beasts"

Oversized Animals

 

 

 

Magic:

 

Fairytale magic has two aspects that need to be kept separate for purposes of the campaign. The first is plot magic--extremely powerful curses, geases, and transforms that drive the campaign. Magic of this type tends to be all-or-nothing, with only one intentional method of dispelling the magic. It may be possible for PCs to trick the caster into dispelling the curse (or bringing it upon themselves), however. At any rate, magic at this power level probably needs to be kept out of the hands of PCs (but see below). (Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Beauty and the Beast)

 

The second type of magic is a bit more like hedge magic in scope--based on wands, dusts, and magic words. Transforms are still prevalent but temporary; other common effects are dazzles, animations (telekinesis), charms (mind control), clairvoyance, growth/shrinking, aids, and detects. Killing attacks are really not suited to the milieu, almost to the point where they should be banned. More powerful spells can be cast through ritual magic, often involving cauldrons and books. (Black Cauldron, Cinderella, Sorcerer's Apprentice) *Consider cost break for animal transforms since they are so prevalent?

 

Competence is a serious issue with PC magicians; the well-meaning but not very skilled wizard or fairy is a common trope. It should be very difficult for a PC to demonstrate real mastery of any kind of sorcery. This is not because magic is inherently unreliable so much as that it is difficult. Fairytale magic does not seem to run on END; it is more likely to run off charges or perhaps some sort of END reserve. (Gummi Bears, Smurfs, Black Cauldron)

 

Enchanted items figure prominently in fairy tales as well, especially potions and dusts but also swords, rings, mirrors, wands, and even mundane items like brooms and buckets. (Snow White, Once and Future King, Sorcerer's Apprentice, Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan)

 

Wishing is another common magic type, but needs to be limited for obvious reasons. Wishes tend not to be malicious in nature; wish magic tends to follow the intent of the wisher rather than looking for loopholes. (Aladdin, Pinocchio)

 

 

 

Combat:

 

Combat figures prominently in fairy tales, but tends to be deemphasized in favor of evading or outwitting opponents. Killing attacks, again, are unusual and very rarely employed against intelligent beings. Heavy armor is also unusual, with most PCs avoiding it in favor of improved mobility. (Combat Luck is a must.) Hit locations should only be used for called shots, and crits are right out (with a possible exception for use against very large monsters).

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Re: Fairytale Hero

 

Arthurian and Carolingian sources would probably be OK. Stuff like Ariosto, Spenser and others would be very appropriate. Fletcher Pratt and L Sprague De Camp's Harold Shea books would be ideal.

 

Technology: I'd consider early 16th century. Yes, that includes gunpowder and the very heaviest knightly armour ever, but it's also when the knights start being replaced by more lightly armoured folks.

 

The Holy Roman Empire, or something like it, would be an ideal setting, especially if the Emperor's state of dress ever becomes an issue. Also, between Reiters and Landsknechts, soldiers aren't exactly the good guys in the eyes of much of the population.

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Re: Fairytale Hero

 

Interesting stuff guys. Thanks for the suggested resources. Cheers.

 

Having thrashed out the basics of what a Fairytale campaign could be I would leave things like tech levels and PG ratings to individual GMs. I see no reason why a Fairytale land should not have early black powder weapons. And using a real historical setting with added folkoric elements would also be cool.

 

I also think it would actually be fun to play up the anachronistic elements of Fairytale Land. Celtic knights living in huge castles and that kind of thing.

 

I agree that magical killing attacks are not common in Fairytales. Magic is there to do things, not, (just), kill them. Physical killing attacks are quite common though. Swords, fangs etc. Weird and wonderful weapons such as singing swords and giant sized kitchen utensils also amuse me.

 

More on magic. I agree with Old Man in that failing a spell roll does not mean that the spell fizzles, it means that the spell does something which the wizard did not intend to do.

 

A very cruel GM could demand that all spells used by a PC must be recited by the Player, word-perfect, from memory, otherwise they go wrong. But that should probably only be enforced if drinking is involved.

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A very cruel GM could demand that all spells used by a PC must be recited by the Player' date=' word-perfect, from memory, otherwise they go wrong. But that should probably only be enforced if drinking is involved.[/quote']

I'm rather fond of what they did with spellcasting for Living Dungeons (last I went.) Played a Priest, and it was tough remembering which prayer bead was the correct one for casting spells. The wizzard didn't have as much luck as I, as it was remebering which circle in a 3x6 spiral was the correct school to cast from. :P

 

I suggest The Mystic World as a good supplement; it describes two good settings to play "Fairy Tales" in--Farie and Babylon.

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Re: Fairytale Hero

 

A fairy tale campaign would make an interesting way of doing something different (usually when my former group wanted something different they'd always demand an evil game even though the usual games weren't that dedicated to good). Another good choice for a fairy tale game is the book version of The Wizard of Oz.

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Re: Fairytale Hero

 

Fairytales/folktales. Is there a Fantasy Hero niche for this kind of game setting? And what would a Fairytale Hero setting look like? Would it be more interesting to stick strongly to the source material, (the stories made famous by Grimm's Fairy Tales and also by Disney), or to blend in ideas and beings from other mythologies? Even original Fairytales are often linked to other mythologies e.g. Celtic, Arthurian, Arabian Nights.

 

Consider the background. Fairytales have provided rich pickings for fantasy authors and GMs alike for many years. Fairytale style fantasy novels such as Blue Moon Rising, the Castle In The Air, the Xanth novels and the Wizard in Rhyme series form a little sub-genre within mainstream fantasy. More recently the Fables series of Graphic novels has depicted a dark and mature Urban Fantasy take on the world of fairytales. The even more recent tv series Grimm attempts to do the same. Fairytales are also big on screen in the form of films such as Shrek or Snow White and the Huntsman.

 

Fairytale Hero could also cover classic novels such as Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan and the Wizard of Oz, which have, (in my mind), a similar feel to Fairytales or are at least aimed at children, just as modern Fairytales usually are.

 

 

For the moment I'm just going to throw together some key themes and ideas which I think are common in Fairytales and to a lesser extent Fairytale fantasy novels, (which are not the same as their source material).

 

Ordinary People have adventures. In the original stories main characters are quite often ordinary people, although they may be knights or princes. A low-level party of adventurers in a generic fantasy setting might include an aspiring priest, a young sorcerer, a skillful but green warrior woman and an apprentice thief. A Fairytale party on the other hand might include a woodcutter, the third son of the King, (who has not received much attention or training),an apprentice baker and a talking cat.

 

Magic items are common. To balance out their lack of power Fairytale protagonists often stumble across magical artefacts or gain the help of a supernatural entity.

 

Qualitative Magic. Wizards and magical creatures in Fairytales are good at absolute abilities such as granting wishes or turning people into things. When wizards fight each other they are more likely to try and transform themselves or their opponents into things than they are to try and whittle down their opponents elemental defences with repeated fireballs or counterspells. Magical items do a certain thing e.g. creating a kingly meal or turning someone invisible and they never fail to carry out their purpose unless they are misused. Magical beings often have specific weaknesses and may be invulnerable to all other forms of attack, magical or mundane.

 

Talking Animals. These are common, with or without explanation. Some have magical powers or extraordinary skills. Some talking animals act like humans e.g. walking on their hind legs and building houses.

 

Violence is not always the answer. While it is not uncommon for Fairytale heroes to kill giants, dragons, ogres etc they are less likely to use standard combat tactics and may instead use tactics such as running, hiding, lying, disguising themselves, pushing people into ovens and using wishes. However, Fairytale style fantasy novels usually have as much blood and slaughter as any other high fantasy story.

 

Words Matter. Riddles, lies and word games quite often feature in Fairytales e.g. Rumpelstiltskin. Magical beings and even humans are usually bound by their word, sometimes even if this means their death or utter defeat.

 

Lots of Royals. Fairytale lands tend to have a lot of knights, kings, queens, princes and princesses. This is despite the fact that dragons prefer to dine on princesses or noble maidens and monsters of all kinds routinely slaughter dozens of knights and princes before one hero is lucky or clever enough to bring them down. It is possible that Fairytale Monsters are a necessary check on the population of knights and royals in Fairytale-Land, which would otherwise grow out of control and devastate the countryside like a plague of locusts.

 

One more idea to think about is Comedy versus Horror. The original Fairytales, (Pre-Grimm), were often quite horrific. The original Red Riding Hood was not saved by a woodcutter; she took all of her clothes off and then got devoured by the Wolf. I believe she was was supposed to be a cautionary tale warning young women to avoid dangerously attractive and/or hairy men. Modern retellings such as the Fables series focus on the darker aspects of these childrens' tales. Other stories, such as Shrek or Castle In The Air, are funny because they play around with the weird rules that Fairytales seem to have. Some stories, like Blue Moon Rising, manage to mock traditional Fairytales and force their heroes to wade through rivers of blood.

 

If someone were to run a Fairytale Hero game it would be important for the GM to agree with the players beforehand whether the campaign was supposed to be a light-hearted riff on Fairytale cliches, a devastating journey into the bloodsoaked nightmares of folk-legend or something in between.

 

So. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

Not so sure magic items are common. Most stories with a magic item seem to me to have had just the one, a rarity that made all the difference. What fairytales are you referring to where magic items abound?

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Re: Fairytale Hero

 

The magic mirror in Snow White' date=' the cauldron in Black Cauldron, some sword in Once and Future King, magic beans, seven league boots... No fairy tale campaign ought to look like an AD&Dv1 campaign in terms of magic item frequency, but they're a regular part of the milieu.[/quote']

 

The trick would be to give players artefacts which either have a very limited number of charges which never recover e.g. this ring will give you one wish and one wish only or give them artefacts with very specific abilities e.g. this axe will cut down any tree with a single stroke or this needle can send a woman to sleep, (suspended animation), for a hundred years. Magical items are as much a puzzle as an aid, you have to work out how to make them useful.

 

As an alternative to the charges which never recover limitation the magical ring I mentioned above could have charges which only recover when the ring is passed to a new owner, legitimately or not. Returning the ring to a previous owner would not work. This could lead to adventures in and of itself; a wealthy merchant woman who used the ring to find a treasure trove now has a powerful enemy and wants to use the ring again to dispose of him, but the merchant needs to pass the ring on and get someone else to use their wish for her benefit. The adventurers are somehow persuaded to take the ring and wield it against the rival, perhaps in return for money, information or some other kind of help.

 

A basic idea for how wishes work. A Wish is a VPP with powers which can be changed as a 0 Phase action and X amount of charges. The Wish also has an All Or Nothing Limitation. You have to be careful how you word your wish, you cannot say 'I wish that a fireball would strike this man', you have to say, 'I wish that this man would die', then the Player or GM changes the VPP to a Killing Attack and rolls it, if the Attack does enough damage to put the target into negative Body then the wish is granted, if not then it isn't.

 

So, the more powerful the Wish VPP is the more likely it is that a big wish will be granted. Wishing to be able see in the dark will almost always work, (though a time limit might have to be applied), wishing that a dragon would turn into a frog requires a very big wish and repeated wishes would not have the cumulative effect that usually applies to transforms.

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Re: Fairytale Hero

 

I've always favored doing wishes as a very big Favor.

 

The "official" way utilizes Extradimensional Movement.

 

And then there's the suggestion of a Variable Power Pool.

 

There are probably other ways.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

More than one way to skin a palindromedary

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Re: Fairytale Hero

 

I see where you are coming from Old Man but I would still like to stat out wishes.

 

If all wishes are created equal then it would be fair to not stat them out, particularly if they are the ultimate form of magic and cannot be stopped. If, however, you want to vary the level of power that a wish can have or place limits on what a wish can achieve then I think it would be worth statting them. Particularly if the wish is provided by a certain being such as a Djinn; a wish gained from a Djinn is basically the power to command the Djinn to carry out a certain task.

 

I can see why it is tempting to avoid statting wishes. Hero does not work well with qualitative or infinite/unstoppbale powers as we know. It would be almost impossible to stat out a wish that could erase a country from history or force all the women in the world to fall in love with the wisher. On the other hand, do we want to give Hero Players that kind of power?

 

Let us say for example that a PC gets a single wish. Unless there are careful limits on what the wish can do they could simply wait until they know the name of the Campaign's major villain and wish that his/her head explodes. Or they could find the largest dragon in the area and wish for it to become slavishly obedient to them. Then they could become incredibly rich and conquer the entire region with their dragon minion.

 

And we would have to ask ourselves, why has no-one done this before? Why hasn't a villain or evil wizard used a wish to make themself overlord of the world? Perhaps there are lots of people holding onto wishes so if you use one that gets you noticed then someone will use their wish to return things to normal. But that could get quite irritating.

 

Characters in Fairytales who get wishes tend to squander them, except possibly the last one. Genre savvy Players could clean up with a single strategically used wish. If you have a good relationship with your players and can convince them not to misuse their wishes too much you might get away with it, but then that would feel like you were artificially constraining them and I think could hurt their enjoyment.

 

I also like the idea of a hierarchy of wishes. You could get a minor wish just by picking the right kind of flower or seeing a falling star. A more powerful wish would have to be granted by a magical being or potent artefact.

 

On a related note. Do you think it would be worth making Transforms cheaper for Fairytale Hero? Perhaps they come with certain Limitations such as Side Effects which make them more affordable at lower levels. So an apprentice could know a Transform spell with a fairly high Active Point Cost but the actual effect is quite variable.

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Re: Fairytale Hero

 

I also like the idea of a hierarchy of wishes. You could get a minor wish just by picking the right kind of flower or seeing a falling star. A more powerful wish would have to be granted by a magical being or potent artefact.

 

Minor wishes could just be a few dice of Luck. If the character's Luck comes up, he finds a pot of gold or escapes the dragon or manages to finagle a few minutes alone with the princess and make a good impression, whatever might at least work toward fulfilling the wish. Once the wish comes true, the Luck dice go away.

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Re: Fairytale Hero

 

One thing I did for granting wishes in my campaigns was define the Spiritual class of Transform as a way to bestow benefits or drawbacks that didn't fit with Physical or Mental Transform. E.g. Perks like Money, positive Reputation, or social status; or Complications such as negative Reputation, Social Complications, Hunteds and Rivals. I usually rationalize this Transform as "editing" a character's "karma," which seems spiritual enough for me. ;)

 

The official Champions Universe has an interesting take on a fairy-tale genre world. The Land of Legends, aka Faerie, is a "dimension" created out of the collective imagination of mankind. It's home to all the gods, monsters, races, and heroes/villains of myth and folklore. The inhabitants of Faerie, including humans, fulfill certain archetypal roles from folkloric sources. Humans, for example, exist as hermits, consorts to elfin nobles, peddlers, knights, woodcutters, huntsmen, and so on. As a product of imagination, Faerie responds to its inhabitants' actions in playing these roles by shaping the environment to create appropriate challenges for them, physical or mental. OTOH humans who resist assimilation into Faerie find themselves facing such challenges unavoidably, forcing them into those roles.

 

A few official characters in Champions are actual fairytale figures from the Land of Legends. Mother Goethel is the witch from Hansel and Gretel, complete with gingerbread house. The Shadow Queen is the "evil queen" archetype, her attitudes, style, and power inspired by a couple of Disney's takes on fairytale villains: the Queen from Snow White, and the "dark fairy" Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty.

 

Bravo is a member of the Champions Universe superhero team, the Sentinels. A human born and raised in Faerie, Bravo is a swashbuckling hero in the vein of Sinbad, Robin Hood, and Zorro, with appropriate skills and some magic items.

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Re: Fairytale Hero

 

I like that use of spiritual transform.

 

I wonder if, when giving out wishes, a GM should sometimes give some definition of what they can do?

 

FREX. You can have a Wish For, a Wish That, a Wish I or a Wish You.

 

A Wish For can only be used to ask for things e.g. a castle or a pile of gold - 'I wish for a castle'.

 

A Wish That can only be used to make something happen, not to create things - 'I wish that tree would explode'.

 

A Wish I changes the wisher - 'I wish I could fly'.

 

A Wish You changes a specific person - 'I wish you were a slug'.

 

Wishes can also be split into two categories - Cosmic wishes and Command wishes.

 

A Cosmic Wish has its own independent existence. It may have a physical form, be a charge in an artefact or exist in a more nebulous way, like a blessing. When activated the wish does whatever it is told to do, it is not sentient but can be activated by literally saying the magic words and will carry out the wisher's wish just as they asked. A Cosmic Wish would be in the form of a Cosmic VPP with one charge that never recovers.

 

A Command Wish is like a geas, a promise or a contract. It means that a magical being has agreed to carry out a command, in the form of a wish, for the wisher. If the being is evil or has a poor relationship with the wisher then it may try to use the wish against them, misunderstanding the wish on purpose or carrying it out too literally. E.g. the wisher says something like 'I wish to be held above all others in the land' (meaning they want to rule the country they are in) and is transported to a mountain top. Or the wisher says 'I wish to have a magic sword' and the being steals a magic sword from a powerful and extremely vengeful wizard.

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