Ragitsu Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 If you had to adapt an Earth-based unarmed martial art (be it striking based, grappling based, or mixed) for paladin use, which would it be, and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rentauri Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? Using the Martial Arts book: Savate - Many for for the symbolism. Its a French Martial Art and Paladins are from there. Sumo - Guy in full plate and a guy that practices Sumo could be the same wiegh (wild guess on my part) so the limited movements may work for the armored paladin. Pankration - Its an old Greek style that is a grappling/striking art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted June 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? Do you envision a paladin boxing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rentauri Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? It can work very well but my understanding of the sweet science is not good; it seems kinda limited in its nature. For me the biggest problem with Paladin Marital Arts is that traditionally guys in Full Plate don't move around a lot, this is what lead me to Sumo mainly. They may be slow but once they get moving watch out they are coming. In the same sense however that could lead to boxing being a good choice. Outside the full plate I could see Karate and Muay Thai I think would be good. Karate would be good since it was developed to combat a weaponed foe and the Paladin is probably in deep crap if he is outside his armor and weaponless. Muay Thai I orginally thought of but rejected only because doing elbow and knee strike in Plate would hurt the paladin (I don't think it bends that well) but outside I could see them taking to it as a brutal way of harnessing the body as a weapon. They may seen the knees and elbows are clubs and see its effectiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? I would go with maneuvers that are Offensive(no positive DCV adds Block as the only exception) All the Sacrifice maneuvers no maneuvers or comb of maneuvers that might be called trickery or dishonorable(Leg sweep followed by and damaging attack) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? The myth of "Restrictive plate armour" is just that - A myth. Modern testing has shown that the weight is very well distributed and someone in good condition can move almost as well in plate armour as with it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? Wrestling would be a good choice, as medieval warriors trained in that as well as armed combat. Note that Medieval wrestling includes a few throws, kicks, and punches. Kampfringen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahuna's bro Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? i agree with savate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? If you had to adapt an Earth-based unarmed martial art (be it striking based' date=' grappling based, or mixed) for paladin use, which would it be, and why?[/quote'] Define "a Paladin" please. There is about one definition per setting they exist in. Wrestling would be a good choice, as medieval warriors trained in that as well as armed combat. Note that Medieval wrestling includes a few throws, kicks, and punches. Kampfringen Kampfringen is part of HSMA for 6E. As well as "Schwertfechten", a way to fight with swords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? Define "a Paladin" please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted June 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? Define "a Paladin" please. There is about one definition per setting they exist in. A D&D type paladin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? A D&D type paladin. Would be "just" a fighter with some extra Powers. I always see Martial Arts as limited relative to just buying more OCV, DCV and STR. The damage is 0 END, but you also end up with a lot less flexibility (the fact that you can't combine normal and Martial Maneuvers is a big downside). I could see him having Weapon Martial Arts, so he saves points for a Power Skill or whatever he needs for his limited "Divine Magic". But the "right" choice of MA-Type also depends on thier god - and thier choosen weapon. i.e., Kord Paladins propably would tend towards Wrestling/Kampfringen. A lot would tend towards some form of Longsword and Shield. Some (with gods that wield spears) would tend towards Spears. Pelor Paladins would propably go for some Blunt Weapon. Whatever martial Arts they choose, they will propably loose out on all other weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? If you had to adapt an Earth-based unarmed martial art (be it striking based' date=' grappling based, or mixed) for paladin use, which would it be, and why?[/quote'] Any restricitons on time period that the art can be drawn from? Just wondering if you are looking for something period appropriate or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesguy Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? I guess it depends on when you expect they could use the martial arts. For instance in my campaign there is a dwarf who has 'brawling' as a martial art. In armed combat he wears heavy chainmail and a shield. He doesn't even try to brawl in that situation. He just throws his heavy ax at this opponent (2.5d6) and then chops them to bits w/ his sword ... He is also the bouncer at the inn the characters own and the occasional brawl happens. Having that brawling skill comes in handy in those situations. I think appropriate martial arts for a knight/paladin do include boxing, wrestling, and combat styles/skills that include throws and flips. I have seen those movies where the knight flips his opponent onto the ground and then tries to stab him with his sword. And of course you have sword fighting and weapons combat in the martial arts list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted June 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? Would be "just" a fighter with some extra Powers. I always see Martial Arts as limited relative to just buying more OCV, DCV and STR. The damage is 0 END, but you also end up with a lot less flexibility (the fact that you can't combine normal and Martial Maneuvers is a big downside). I could see him having Weapon Martial Arts, so he saves points for a Power Skill or whatever he needs for his limited "Divine Magic". But the "right" choice of MA-Type also depends on thier god - and thier choosen weapon. i.e., Kord Paladins propably would tend towards Wrestling/Kampfringen. A lot would tend towards some form of Longsword and Shield. Some (with gods that wield spears) would tend towards Spears. Pelor Paladins would propably go for some Blunt Weapon. Whatever martial Arts they choose, they will propably loose out on all other weapons. Any unarmed martial art suggestions? A warrior must augment their armed training, you know. Any restricitons on time period that the art can be drawn from? Just wondering if you are looking for something period appropriate or not. Nope. When dealing with fantasy paladins, "period appropriate" tends to be a loose guideline at best . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? Generic fantasy paladin who can have martial arts from any era for any reason? Give him the maneuvers you think supplement his armed training and call it Paladin Training. Not sure what you're trying to accomplish since your parameters are quite broad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? Any unarmed martial art suggestions? A warrior must augment their armed training' date=' you know.[/quote'] Actually: No. If I have 25 STR, 7 OCV and 7 DCV I am pretty awsome when brawling. No Martial Arts is needed, if the character already is a good fighter. Now the 15 STR, 5 OCV, 5 DCV guy propably should have martial Arts for his main weapon. And accept that he isn't going to outbrawl the above guy who just bought higher values. But he also paid less points for the equal fighting ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted June 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? Actually: No. This is what the thread is concerned about: framed within the context of a paladin that can and will benefit from an unarmed martial art. If you don't want to contribute in that area, that's fine, but let's try to stay on topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? This is what the thread is concerned about: framed within the context of a paladin that can and will benefit from an unarmed martial art. If you don't want to contribute in that area' date=' that's fine, but let's try to stay on topic.[/quote'] I am pointing at the following: If a character is a good fighter, he doesn't need to have Martial Arts to be a good brawler. Good fighter = good brawler. If he is an exclusively unarmed figther, the he needs some extra DC/STR to keep up with the Armed fighters, but that is it. In fact if he is a good fighter (top of the line), he might not even be allowed to get Martial Arts - because that would get him beyond the campaign limits. If your paladin isn't a top of the line fighter (by OCV, DCV and STR), he propably should invest points in Armed Martial Arts: Smithing the forces of Evil with his Sword should be a higher priority than Barroom Brawl performance for any D&D inspired Paladin When you want a paladin that is good at armed and unarmed fighting, you propably should just buy those extra CV directly - before you pay more points for two martial Arts and a much more complex built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? The point went whizzing past you I think... There are plenty of things Martial Training/ARts do that aren't damage. Also you've brought up an unmentioned unknown: campaign limits. Let the player and GM worry about that. We're here to provide Constructive Answers; i.e. answer the d--- question. I would build one based on Kung Fu - if only because a Paladin (Holy Warrior) is a good "western" analogy to the "eastern" Monk's that generally practiced Wu Shu. They're both effectively Holy Warriors, after a fashion - you know, in a 'generic fantasy world' sense. My Paladin in Teh Bunneh's fantasy game has Martial Arts, but based on a dueling art (a home built variant on fencing) from her country of birth (She also happens to not wear plate, and wields sabres). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted June 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? I would build one based on Kung Fu - if only because a Paladin (Holy Warrior) is a good "western" analogy to the "eastern" Monk's that generally practiced Wu Shu. They're both effectively Holy Warriors, after a fashion - you know, in a 'generic fantasy world' sense. My Paladin in Teh Bunneh's fantasy game has Martial Arts, but based on a dueling art (a home built variant on fencing) from her country of birth (She also happens to not wear plate, and wields sabres). Do you think proper unarmed disarms of weapons would be a crucial element of such training when the opposition opts for light one-handed weaponry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? I would say yes, if subdual of an enemy is preferred or just desired - disarming them goes towards capturing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? Good on the disarm. I envision paladin martial arts to have an emphasis on subdual, as you say, so disarms, throws, and perhaps grabs are in order. Maybe a choke hold, and on the defensive side, I'd picture paladins as preferring to block rather than dodge. I don't envision paladins as being heavy brawlers, so I'd deemphasize kicks and strikes, as well as any maneuver that would result in the paladin rolling around on the ground in an undignified manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? i agree with savate I wouldn't. What do pimps have to do with Paladins? (At least I heard that some of the manuevers were developed by pimps in Paris, but this information is more by word of mouth than actual fact). But seriuosly, a kicking for warriors in armor, I don't see it as much. Fencing, wrestling, dirty infighting, fisticuffs, kenjujitsu and pankration seem like better canidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Re: Paladin Martial Art? I wouldn't. What do pimps have to do with Paladins? (At least I heard that some of the manuevers were developed by pimps in Paris' date=' but this information is more by word of mouth than actual fact). But seriuosly, a kicking for warriors in armor, I don't see it as much. Fencing, wrestling, dirty infighting, fisticuffs, kenjujitsu and pankration seem like better canidates.[/quote'] Word of mouth is often word of rumour and misinformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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