Pattern Ghost Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Is there a huge difference between 5.5.2 and 7.5.0? Even if the robots count as male, I don't think it matters much. It's the quality of the female characters that should be the measuring stick. I don't see any of the characters going too far out of various stereotypes, but I don't see anything immediately offensive about any of the female characters, either. 薔薇語 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Obviously, we need a genderless pronoun to continue having a full discussion of robot sexuality. That way, we can avoid saying "she," "he," or "it" and just use something like "s/he-it" (for example). After all, when you really get down to it, I think most of us here, myself included, are full of "s/he-it". I think many people on both sides of this issue should keep that in the forefront of their brains -- in other words, have "s/he-it fore-brains." The problem is, the various posters think their own "s/he-it" doesn't stink. (Okay, I'll stop now, and take myself out back to be beaten profusely. Maybe I'll get the "s/he-it" knocked out of me.) Burrito Boy, Grailknight, 薔薇語 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Actually, there are those who use "zhe"/"zher" as pronouns of choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Obviously, we need a genderless pronoun to continue having a full discussion of robot sexuality. That way, we can avoid saying "she," "he," or "it" and just use something like "s/he-it" (for example). After all, when you really get down to it, I think most of us here, myself included, are full of "s/he-it". I think many people on both sides of this issue should keep that in the forefront of their brains -- in other words, have "s/he-it fore-brains." The problem is, the various posters think their own "s/he-it" doesn't stink. (Okay, I'll stop now, and take myself out back to be beaten profusely. Maybe I'll get the "s/he-it" knocked out of me.) I think we should use "dey", "dem", and "deir" for explicitly undefined gender, both singular and plural. Those utterances are already widely used in the vernacular, in something close to that sense anyway; we'd just be retconning them into being appropriate language. That way also we would be being proactive in our language reform, because when androids get recognized as having full rights and sentience, it would not require further messing with the language. Of course we can prevent this from ever being adopted by calling it "the metric system for pronouns", since USers would rather do the intellectual equivalent of self-inflicting a sucking chest wound, and picking at it so it won't heal, than adopt the metric system. BoloOfEarth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Actually, there are those who use "zhe"/"zher" as pronouns of choice. I think we should use "dey", "dem", and "deir" for explicitly undefined gender, both singular and plural. Those utterances are already widely used in the vernacular, in something close to that sense anyway; we'd just be retconning them into being appropriate language. Interesting. I have never heard of any of those 5 pronouns. So I would doubt how 'widely used' they are. That said, as I noted "Standard US English" doesn't have a genderless pronoun but various dialects of English do. I for one use "they" typically when talking about something without gender or sometimes use "it" when I need to be more explicit on the number. I find those work just fine without creating some strange need to add to the English lexicon. La Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Quite, but you can see why one person infers "presents as male" from the use of "he" for artificial intelligences, while you do not. The usage makes it ambiguous, and people see what they're expecting. "and people see what they're expecting" is part of the problem I was talking about. If you go into the game expecting to see sexism you will see it. There is perhaps nothing so bland in our lives as to not have some loose shred of evidence of sexism. But that is the problem. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If the limits of your social critique are based on sexism, then everything is going to look sexist - regardless of the 'truth' of the matter. La Rose. Vondy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 One Philae Lander - associated scientist got in trouble for his sexy shirt. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/14/philae-lander-scientist-cries-apologizes-shirt-cri/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 One Philae Lander - associated scientist got in trouble for his sexy shirt. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/14/philae-lander-scientist-cries-apologizes-shirt-cri/ The Young Turks did an interesting bit on that topic (Maybe NSFW) La Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrito Boy Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 With all this talk of pronouns, I feel this is appropriate. www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=nDbeqj-1XOo Edit: Stupid phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Obviously, we need a genderless pronoun to continue having a full discussion of robot sexuality. We do have a genderless pronoun - it/that. That should solve the problem neatly. cheers, Mark 薔薇語 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I've had incidents where I wish I was PeeJee... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I think we should use "dey", "dem", and "deir" for explicitly undefined gender, both singular and plural. Those utterances are already widely used in the vernacular, in something close to that sense anyway; we'd just be retconning them into being appropriate language. You forgot "doze." Interesting. I have never heard of any of those 5 pronouns. So I would doubt how 'widely used' they are. At least for Cancer's three, I think you need to swing by New Yawk some time. Head down to Toity-Toid Street. Anybody dere will tell you dey don't need none of dem electrocution coaches to correct deir speakin'. The internet really, really needs a sarcasm font. Cancer and 薔薇語 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 You forgot "doze." At least for Cancer's three, I think you need to swing by New Yawk some time. Head down to Toity-Toid Street. Anybody dere will tell you dey don't need none of dem electrocution coaches to correct deir speakin'. The internet really, really needs a sarcasm font. Oh my gosh I feel so stupid and foolish for not catching that. Of course I know the three he mentioned, I personally use them all the time. Indeed, I concur with you in that we really need a sarcasm font. Mea culpa. La Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 A Female PhD Student in Computing Re-Wrote That Horrible “Barbie Computer Engineer” Book and Made It Awesome Yesterday, we told you about a new Barbie book called I Can Be A Computer Engineer, which—while it sounded so promising—actually taught girls that they need a man’s help in order to code games, or even just use a computer without breaking it, really. But fear not—awesome women to the rescue! Casey Fiesler, a PhD student in Human-Centered Computing at Georgia Tech, was not down with the content in this latest Barbie offering, so she decided to fix it herself (which she did using a computer without giving it a virus I believe). She’s writing her dissertation on copyright and online remix communities, and what she loves about the remix community is the theme of “If you don’t like the narrative, change it!” So Fiesler went ahead and re-wrote the entire book with a much more positive message. You can download the whole thing for free right here, but here’s an idea of what you’ll find inside: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 http://womeninastronomy.blogspot.com/2014/11/its-not-about-that-damn-shirt.html Cancer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Heh, between being busy, getting sick, and not paying much attention to popular media nonsense in the first place, I missed that entire media storm, and it's even in my house, so to speak. Sigh. More reading to do when I can think again. OTOH, chasing other links hanging off those pages, I have long known just how appallingly white US astronomy is. In my career (which I'll push as far back as when I started grad school, 1978) I have met one -- ONE -- African-American astronomer senior to me. I know a handful (by which I mean at least three but certainly not ten) in my generation or younger, and by "know" I mean (as an operational minimum) someone I am acquainted with well enough to be sure of mutual recognition and a handshake at a scientific society meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted November 29, 2014 Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 Lessons from a 70's Female Computer Programmer http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-lessons-from-1970s-female-programmer/ Lucius Alexander The palindromedary has a Y Chromosome and a Y-not? Chromosome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted November 29, 2014 Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 I opened the Christina H. article and got ads for something involving teenaged Chinese girls in Vancouver something something. Now I'm feeling all skeevy again. I understand that this is off-topic and irrelevant, but I just want everyone to know before I'm caught in public dressed in a diaper, crushing rodents with a giant, pink, stiletto heel shoe, because there's really nowhere to go but down from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted November 29, 2014 Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 Youtube videos are articles? *confused* I hope you don't click on any links (especially in ANY Comments section) for videos period. That way lays phishing, viruses, and madness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 The gaming journalist who tells on her internet trolls – to their mothers Hermit and Shadow Hawk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 The gaming journalist who tells on her internet trolls – to their mothers That's brilliant. It's a very adult way to handle obnoxious pre-puberty trolls. EDIT: And frankly, while they won't likely do it, the little bastages should probably THANK the reporter. There are far worse (For your future) authorities to be reported TO. Ms. Pearce is showing them a kindness in that they get a chance to see that there are consequences while also getting a chance to straighten up immediately. I don't have kids, but if I found out one was pulling this @## I'd want to be informed rather than be ignorant of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 California man first to be convicted under state's revenge porn law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 That's brilliant. It's a very adult way to handle obnoxious pre-puberty trolls. And many post-puberty ones too. And more legal than my usual reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Horrifying... 23-Year-Old Woman Beaten To Death After Defending Teen Girls From Harassment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 We do have a genderless pronoun - it/that. That should solve the problem neatly. cheers, Mark I'm sure referring to people as "it" and "that" will go over big! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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