Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

[Cygnia]

 

The Cool Girl Trap: Or, Why Sexism in Tech Isn’t Going Away.

 

[SKJAM!]

Cygnia, a lot of your links shrink when you post them, so I can't tell which ones I might already have seen.  Could you also post the title of the article you link to separately, if not perhaps a brief sentence describing the  content? 

[Cygnia]

http://www.shakesville.com/2015/10/we-have-to-talk-about-this-now.html

 

Spoilered for language

 

 

 

 

This kid:

An Idaho school was placed on lockdown after a student threatened to "kill all the girls" because none of them would send him nude photos.

When I talk about the culture of violent entitlement, that is exactly the kind of shit I mean. This 15-year-old kid felt entitled to nude pictures of his female classmates, and, when none of them would comply, he decided to threaten to kill them. And his threats were explicit: He posted on both Facebook and Twitter that he "intended to bring a gun to school and kill all the girl students, and shared detailed plans for how he would enter the school and eventually kill himself in the weight room."

 

 

[薔薇語]

http://www.shakesville.com/2015/10/we-have-to-talk-about-this-now.html

 

Spoilered for language

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That child is quite sick and disturbed by the sounds of it. I am glad his friend reported him and that he seems to have been arrested and all is well (ish). 

 

But is this a story of Toxic Masculinity or of a crazy guy? Among the problems I have with the use of the term "Toxic Masculinity" is that it is super broad and suffers from a level of bias that is not really acceptable in supposible  academic work. 

 

We have a boy/guy who wants nude picks of young cheerleaders. He doesn't get them. This inspires him to plot violence. 

 

Certain groups look at this and jump the gun to assume that our culture and male culture in general is reinforcing these behaviors as acceptable. That somehow there is a strong current in our culture that promotes these actions - "The Rape Culture" or "Toxic Masculinity". But they only look at this singular series and ignore or discount all the context in which it occurred.

 

Looking at the context lets notch all of that info into a more complete story:

 

We have a boy/guy who wants nude picks of young cheerleaders. He doesn't get them. This inspires him to plot violence. Confessing to his MALE friend, he is told not to. The boy/guy continues to commit to the idea. The MALE friend then reports him. This report is taken and used to arrest the boy/guy. He is now in custody. 

 

Looking at the more complete story, we can see that the greater number of people are not endorsing or supporting his horrid views of life. His close MALE friend, a friend he felt close enough to to actually announce his murderous intentions instructs him to stop and even reports him to authority. His male friend doesn't seem to endorse violence against women. The authorities don't seem to endorse violence against women and arrest him.

 

Follow all that up with the posting of this story on the net: the extreme majority of people reading this story (male and female) don't endorse his switch to violence. So where exactly is this "culture" of violence. Why are we talking about toxic "masculinity" rather than addressing the specific issues of this boy/guy. While I think it is fair to draw conclusions about why he lusts after certain girls more than others from our culture, I think it takes a particularly strained leap of faith to go from that to 'rape culture'. 

 

All in all, I find this line of reasoning strained beyond acceptability. I find it to be distracting from the issues at hand. 

 

 

Foreign Orchid. 

[Nolgroth]

All in all, I find this line of reasoning strained beyond acceptability. I find it to be distracting from the issues at hand. 

 

 

Well said. 

 

I've actually spent way too much time in this thread lately. I recognize that there is some sort of bias out there and that it is not healthy. Neither is this thread. It seems like every posted article is a reminder of how men/masculinity is "bad." There is a constant stream of passive aggressive complaints and little to no discussion about finding solutions. Whatever the original intent of this thread, now it is only a place for divisive ideology. I cannot see any positive benefit to my continued participation here, so I am bowing out.

 

I hope that we, as a society of geeks, nerds or whatever label you want to assign us, learn that coming together and embracing our diversity only makes us a stronger community. Good luck.

[薔薇語]

The following video doesn't have anything to do with the previous discussion and isn't really related to the issue of "geekdom" but given that a lot of discussions here are not tied to geekdom, I guess it is appropriate. This is a ABC bit about Norah Vincent and her year and a half transformation into a man. It goes over some highlights of her experiences as a man - male bonding, sex drive, dating, etc. I am glad that youtube decided to recommend it to me. I might have to go out and find Ms. Vincent's book and give it a read. 

I hope you all enjoy the video, too:

 

Foreign Orchid. 

[Cygnia]

Masculinity Is an Anxiety Disorder: Breaking Down the Nerd Box

 

On some level, then, all men are aware that there is an ideal of masculinity, that it is impossible to live up to, and that when we fail to live up to it we are subject to name–calling as a matter of course. We are vulnerable to criticism from gender–policing people of all genders for failing to attain or maintain this ideal.

 

Our marginally more enlightened age has introduced new criteria for Manhood which stands in direct contrast to the old criteria, which is itself at times self–contradictory. A Man needs no one; a Man takes care of those around him. A Man is gentle; a Man is violent. A Man is good with his hands; a Man is too powerful and important to work with his hands himself. Boys don’t cry. Except maybe they do? And if they do, when? How much? In what way is it acceptable for a man to cry? Vague permission to express emotions can provoke even more anxiety.

[Lucius]

Good news for a change

 

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/blog/ark-survival-game-review

 

"I base-jumped into a pack of carnivores and got rescued by my daughter, who was riding a velociraptor."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

House of the Palindromedary

[Markdoc]

Masculinity Is an Anxiety Disorder: Breaking Down the Nerd Box

 

This is just introverted gibberish. Change a few pronouns and a few activities and the article could have been written by a woman. In fact, I've read very many, very similar articles that were written by women, except they were about societal pressures to be feminine. Which makes the point, that it isn't about masculinity - or femininity, or even gender roles, for that matter: I've also read similar screeds on being Catholic (or not, in a catholic environment). It's about how we react to social pressure to conform to a specific role (or roles, because we are all expected to assume multiple roles).

 

It's a pity. The author starts out promisingly, writing "Speaking for myself—the only person I can reasonably speak for—being a Man never seemed like an attainable goal, let alone a desirable one. This has something to do with me and who I am, certainly ..." and then goes on to ignore his own starting premise and write as though his own experience is universal. I understand his experience, because it's very similar to my own. But his conclusions and his reactions - even though entirely understandable to me, based on shared experience - are diametrically opposed to my own. So his own experience is not universal. Nor is mine – nor are the experiences of my many geek friends that run the spectrum. They are all equally valid … and only a tiny subset deal with anxiety issues. And it is a pity, because there are a few insightful comments mixed in with the gibberish.

 

So masculinity isn’t an anxiety disorder. He has an anxiety disorder about his masculinity. That’s an issue he’s going to have to solve or learn to accommodate himself. I don’t mean to sound unsympathetic, but locating the real root of a problem is the first step in resolving it. Trying to externalize it, the way he does here is actually only going to deepen his issues, because the world is not going to change to accommodate his personal problem.

 

Cheers, Mark

[NuSoardGraphite]

Enough is Enough: Dark Horse’s Scott Allie’s Assaulting Behavior

How a toxic history of harassment has damaged the comics industry

Sounds to me like that guy needs an intervention and some rehab.

[Cancer]

Hm. Geoff Marcy, astronomer at UC Berkeley, one of the big wheels in the field of exoplanets, has been formally accused of long-term sexual harassment behavior. We'll see what happens.

 

(I just heard about this from a FTF conversation with my department chair. I don't know Marcy -- I have seen him give a couple of invited talks at big meetings, that's all, and I don't work in the exoplanet field so I don't know anyone who is well acquainted with him either. All of which I offer as I say this is news to me, too.)

 

I haven't read anything from any source yet about the case. But, unlike the comics industry or on-line gaming or any of those others which are mostly posted about here, it's in what I think of as my own professional community, so I'm going to be doing that reading. (Not immediately; I have a class starting in 25 minutes.)

[Markdoc]

Hm. Geoff Marcy, astronomer at UC Berkeley, one of the big wheels in the field of exoplanets, has been formally accused of long-term sexual harassment behavior. We'll see what happens.

 

(I just heard about this from a FTF conversation with my department chair. I don't know Marcy -- I have seen him give a couple of invited talks at big meetings, that's all, and I don't work in the exoplanet field so I don't know anyone who is well acquainted with him either. All of which I offer as I say this is news to me, too.)

 

I haven't read anything from any source yet about the case. But, unlike the comics industry or on-line gaming or any of those others which are mostly posted about here, it's in what I think of as my own professional community, so I'm going to be doing that reading. (Not immediately; I have a class starting in 25 minutes.)

 

Oddly enough, I stumbled over this case earlier this evening while reading Science - so, relevant to this discussion, but I came across it quite out of context. He has posted a letter on his website admitting inappropriate behaviour (I know nothing whatsoever about the context of the accusations, so can't comment on the letter) so in this case, it appears that the accusations phase was actually over a few months ago, and that he has settled with the university.

 

cheers, Mark

[Cancer]

I'm just back from class, and about to run to catch my bus, so I'll be chasing whatever sources I can find later this evening.

 

Sigh.

 

EDIT: Not sure if this is behind the subscriber wall, but here is one item in Science, which includes comments from Meg Urry, current president of the American Astronomical Society.

 

EDIT^2: Link Looks like it had been going on for years, seemingly serial groping etc. of students. That paper calls it "an open secret" among astronomers (obviously I don't move in the circles in which it was known) and looks like UC Berkeley could get serious consequences if it is determined that some kind of institutional coverup was done.

 

EDIT^3: Idiots.

[Ranxerox]

Masculinity Is an Anxiety Disorder: Breaking Down the Nerd Box

 

 

This is just introverted gibberish. Change a few pronouns and a few activities and the article could have been written by a woman. In fact, I've read very many, very similar articles that were written by women, except they were about societal pressures to be feminine. Which makes the point, that it isn't about masculinity - or femininity, or even gender roles, for that matter: I've also read similar screeds on being Catholic (or not, in a catholic environment). It's about how we react to social pressure to conform to a specific role (or roles, because we are all expected to assume multiple roles).

 

It's a pity. The author starts out promisingly, writing "Speaking for myself—the only person I can reasonably speak for—being a Man never seemed like an attainable goal, let alone a desirable one. This has something to do with me and who I am, certainly ..." and then goes on to ignore his own starting premise and write as though his own experience is universal. I understand his experience, because it's very similar to my own. But his conclusions and his reactions - even though entirely understandable to me, based on shared experience - are diametrically opposed to my own. So his own experience is not universal. Nor is mine – nor are the experiences of my many geek friends that run the spectrum. They are all equally valid … and only a tiny subset deal with anxiety issues. And it is a pity, because there are a few insightful comments mixed in with the gibberish.

 

So masculinity isn’t an anxiety disorder. He has an anxiety disorder about his masculinity. That’s an issue he’s going to have to solve or learn to accommodate himself. I don’t mean to sound unsympathetic, but locating the real root of a problem is the first step in resolving it. Trying to externalize it, the way he does here is actually only going to deepen his issues, because the world is not going to change to accommodate his personal problem.

 

Cheers, Mark

 

I'm in agreement with Markdoc on this, the arguments in this article are rubbish.  Yes, you can't be the ideal specimen of masculinity but really you can't be the ideal specimen of any abstract concept from the ideal catholic to the ideal doctor to the ideal teacher to the ideal feminist (Laci Green of MTV's Braless has nice piece on how becoming a better feminist is the work of a lifetime which I can link to if you like).  This is not surprising because human beings aren't abstract concepts and therefore we can't epitomize them.  However, contrary to the writer's assertions this is not something that most people lose much sleep over.  Men know that can't be the ideal specimen specimen of masculinity and are generally okay with this as long as they feel they doing a reasonable job being men.

 

Where you see a lot of anxiety about masculinity is in males that suspect that they aren't measuring up as men.  This is most common in young males, because of course they aren't measuring up as men; they are still just boys.  However, having the concept masculinity points them in the direction that society expects them to go and this can be very helpful.  People like clear expectations.  In recent decades, though, as lifestyles have changed so the the duties and responsibilities of men.  Concepts of masculinity have shifted in response to changing needs and expectations, but still they have lagged behind the pace of social change.  This has led to a certain amount of navel gazing concerning what it means to be a man in the modern age.  Nonetheless, calling masculinity an anxiety disorder is a gross mischaracterization.  The vast majority of males in time take up the responsibilities of manhood and find peace with their own sense of masculinity.

 

Of course finding peace with the concepts of masculinity and femininity is a harder row to hoe for the queer.  Therefore I can sympathize with the author's rejection of concept of masculinity as it was never likely to be a good fit for him.  It is a very good thing that the mental health community has finally pulled their collective heads far enough out of their rumps to stop classifying queerness as a mental disorder.  That doesn't mean that now is the time make a mental disorder out of traditional masculinity or femininity.   

Edited October 15, 2015 by Ranxerox

[Lucius]

 

 

Ran into this while browsing around when I should be doing something useful, didn't remember seeing it linked here before, and thought if I posted it I might be doing something useful after all.

 

 

http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2014/09/04/lets-have-a-serious-talk-about-gamer-culture/

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says there are specific useful things I need to do, TODAY, that don't involve the internet, so I'm getting offline before it gets really testy with me.

[Pattern Ghost]

Quote from the first comment on the article (from Robert):

 

 

See, I’m from an older tradition. When I was a teenager, a gamer was someone who played wargames or D&D. Computer gaming has, to me *always* been relatively mainstream. The violent gynophobia that’s so loud in the computer gaming community is completely baffling to me. It just didn’t used to be like that. There was certainly sexism among gamers in the late ’70s and early ’80s, but it was the casual, dismissive sort that was pretty common back then. “Girls aren’t into this sort of thing.” If a girl *was* interested, we didn’t try to keep her out, though; she was awesome!

[Cygnia]

SXSW Interactive Cancels Gaming Harassment Panel Due to “Threats of Violence,” Fails to See Irony

 

Last night, two sets of panelists scheduled to take part in discussions at SXSW 2016 learned that both of their panels had been cancelled: “SavePoint – A Discussion on the Gaming Community” and “Level Up: Overcoming Harassment in Games.” In both cases, the panelists were informed that their panels had been removed from the schedule due to SXSW’s concerns about the public response to the panels and the resources that hosting them would require from SXSW’s staff.

[Ranxerox]

_{SXSW Interactive Cancels Gaming Harassment Panel Due to “Threats of Violence,” Fails to See Irony}

 

_{Irony is based upon an unexpected twist.  I this really unexpected?}

[Cygnia]

_{Irony is based upon an unexpected twist.  I this really unexpected?}

Apparently, it gets uglier...

 

 

Caroline Sinders, one of the “Level Up” panelists, wrote this up back in August. The thing about being “brigaded” by downvoters, as anyone from Reddit or YouTube or other sites with downvotes can attest to, is that if the vote has any significance whatsoever, trying to fight off the downvotes becomes exhausting.

And then there were the comments.

 

Shortly after the Reddit post went up, a representative from SXSW contacted us letting us know they were aware of it. They asked us if there was anything we could do. Short of closing the vote entirely, which felt like admitting defeat, I asked if they could close the unmoderated comments sections left on each PanelPicker page. If you’ve ever seen a comments section after r/KotakuInAction has linked to it, it’s not a pretty sight. It’s a quite useful tool, in fact, for downvoters to discourage upvoters from showing up by making even navigating to the page unpleasant and stressful, a way of signaling to everyone: “This is where the ugly controversy is.”

 

The representative declined to close comments. They asked if anything particularly bad came up to let them know so it could be deleted.

 

Things started getting bad very quickly, of course. I waited until I started seeing links to Encyclopedia Dramatica and Lolcow Wiki, sites that more or less exist to spread gossip and libel about Internet personalities. I asked that a link to a hit piece alleging over-the-top and incredibly hurtful things about a panelist—that she was a drug addict, that she’d sold her child—be removed. I asked that a link to a hit piece saying I’d called in a bomb threat be removed. I asked that a link outing the birth name of a trans person who wasn’t even on any of the panels be removed.

 

I was ignored.

[Pattern Ghost]

[Lucius]

 

 

http://www.willyoupressthebutton.com/12775/yes

 

Apparently, 61% of people who like to press buttons, would press one that made them change gender - if the change also included becoming "the world's biggest badass."

 

I really really really wish there were a way to tell how many of each gender made which choice.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary has a Y chromosome and a Y-not? chromosome

[Cygnia]

http://www.salon.com/2015/11/03/gamergate_rides_again_corporate_arrogance_just_turned_sxsws_big_tent_into_a_three_ring_circus/

 

 

I was extremely skeptical of SXSW’s announcement that they’d do a whole day-long harassment event to somehow compensate for their previous mishandling of harassment panels. It was that very previous mishandling that showed they didn’t have much depth of competence understanding or dealing with harassment. For them to come up with a harassment event at the last minute in some kind of face-saving move seemed to be inviting disaster.

 

But I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and happy to hear that the Level Up panelists as well as a lot of other cool people would be getting the opportunity to speak after all.

 

Then I found out that SXSW hadn’t learned a thing.

 

They not only brought back the Level Up panelists but also brought back the “Save Point” GamerGate panelists, and actually made the existing situation worse. Rather than simply having harassers and their victims at the same conference, encouraging an audience of GamerGaters to attend SXSWi and put people in danger, they literally put the Level Up and Save Point panelists in the same tent, expecting victims and their harassers to participate as part of the same event in order to create a “dialogue” between “two sides.”

 

This is a terrible thing to do. What’s even worse is doing this in a public press release without telling any of the prospective panelists beforehand, and leaving the Level Up panelists in the unpleasant situation of either “backing out” of the “anti-harassment summit” or going along with being volunteered to debate their attackers.

[Cygnia]

Anonymous sexism in paleoanthropology

 

Sunday, The Observer published an article by Robin McKie: “Scientist who found new human species accused of playing fast and loose with the truth”. McKie featured extensive quotes from paleoanthropologist Tim White, who believes that the 2-year-long analysis of Homo naledi was “rushed”. McKie included both negative and supportive quotes from a number of scientists, all of them men.

 

McKie used one particularly negative quote from a source who would not go on the record with his or her name. Steeped in sexism, it has been sparking outrage among anthropologists in social media since the story was published this weekend:

The fact that Berger used women cavers to retrieve Naledi bones — on the grounds that they were the only ones small enough to get into the chamber — has only irked his critics even more. One said: “There are many male cavers who could get in there, but that would have spoiled the publicity stunt.”

It’s a short paragraph in a long article. Some may wonder whether this kind of comment is worth protesting. It is, after all, the sort of thing that may be whispered in the hallway at any scientific conference.

 

That’s exactly the point.

[Cygnia]

This Is the Reality Female Athletes Face When They Speak Up Online

 

Katie Hnida fought plenty of battles when she made history as University of Colorado Boulder football's first female place kicker in the early 2000s. But the most enduring match of her career took place years after she left the gridiron and came out as a sexual assault survivor.

 

"It was a different world in terms of social media, and I think it was a good thing for me," Hnida told Mic of her playing days, which ended in 2004. "When I spoke out about being assaulted and my rape at CU, it was just unbelievable backlash I faced."

[Ranxerox]

 

I have mixed feeling about this.  On one hand it is cool that they are reaching out to girls as a market, OTOH the quality doesn't look very good to me.