Building Weapons.

[NisseFrasse]

Greetings.

I really could use some help due to I am really confused on the matter building weapons.
For last month now I been reading alot of HERO 6th and start to get alot of hang of it, how to make powers, advantages, limitations, how combat works and so on. There are still a few things that I havn't grasped yet but still working on it.

However, there is one thing that remains unclear to me, the subject in how to build your own weapons. Normal, one could just add Obvious, Accessible Focus (OAF), then add some damage to it and be done with it. But if you want to get deeper into it, there are alot of other variables that need to taken into acount. And when i compared with other weapons I just get confused due to there are no formule that explain why it cost as it does. For example, in the Power book, it all explain step by step of it's diffrent cost steps, +½ advantage or -¼ limitation etc. But the weapons doesn't got such formules. And thus it leave me confused on "How, or why does the weapon cost that sum?" If I would like to take Laser Rifle, Military and then mod it, adding some more damage to it or increase it's range, or perhaps give it some kind of a limitation.

I am then to count from it's active cost and not real cost, I do not know then what limitation it got or advantages it got, since I got to take them into the calculation aswell. For example once again, the Laser Rifle, Military, it's real Active cost is 75, but it's real cost is then 24. What limitations make it so much cheaper? I Havn't found any tablet calculation for weapon limitations nor advandtages. Ofcourse there are a few like damage and bulky or requier strength to wield it. But Shots? Are that same as charges? Is their range as the same Powers range advantages?

I been looking through the books but I am just get more and more cluess, i been reading through the books but havn't found anything that could explain this to me, what define the costs of the things on the weapons, how much do they cost or make it cheaper, I wish they hade a forumal, or a tablet list stating the cost of things of them, since at the momment I am just lost.

If any one could help me define the way they cost or why they become cheaper, that would be great and I would be very thankful.
Thanks alot on before hand!

[Steve Long]

This seems to be an appeal for general help and/or discussion, so I've moved it to the Discussion board where anyone can reply.

[WistfulD]

Okay, here is a primer (and please jump in to correct me, fellow board members). Let us limit our scope to simple, killing weapons that have one basic function, and thus are not built as multi-powers. Since you didn't provide a book and page reference for your laser rifle, I can't comment on it. Let's build two weapons, a combat knife and a .22-.270 deer-hunting rifle, and then we'll add a scope to the rifle.

 

Knife - A knife is HKA 1/2D6 for 10 base points.

Advantages:The knife is armor piercing (+1/4), and doesn't cost more Endurance than the STR used to swing it (reduced endurance: 0 END; + 1/2). That makes it 10*(1.00+0.25+0.50) = 17 Active Points (remember 17.5 rounds to 17).

Limitations: The Knife is an obvious, accessible focus (-1). We could decide that it is inobvious, as a combat knife could mean a switchblade or other easily concealable tactical folder, but we decide that it's more of a Rambo-style knife. Now it's a "Real Weapon," but it is a modern knife in modern times, so maintaining it isn't likely a real burden. We'll say that we're building it for a heroic, instead of superheroic game, so taking the real weapon limitation is assumed (and thus -0), so we won't worry about it. Likewise, restrainable is inherent to a focus you take out and weild with your arms (-0). The weapon ends up being 17/(1.00+1.00) = 8 Real points.

 

Rifle - how much an individual gun does is really dependent upon your campaign. To make life easy, let's make our rifle do RKA 2D6 for 30 base points.

Advantages: There easily could be no advantages to add to the active cost, but let's think about the range, since you brought that up. The basic range of the weapon is in fact, as you suggested, the same as the power. That would be 30 (base points) x 10m = 300m. How far a bullet travels if you ask it in a high school physics question is not the distance you can successfully hurt something with it. Since we aren't converting the thing into a sniper rifle, let's say that over half a kilometer is unlikely, and give it one level of long range (+1/4) and a maximum range of 300 x 2 = 600m. Looking over other potential advantages (armor piercing for armor piercing bullets of course, indirect for mortar rounds, no range penalty for guided missiles maybe), nothing else looks too important. Thus our rifle is going to be 30 x (1.00 + 1.25) = 37 active points.

Endurance/Charges: Note that we didn't pick up reduced endurance (0 END; + 1/2) for this one. Therefore, we have to explain how it pays for it's effects. Since it doesn't have an endurance reserve (although a self-recharging laser rifle or something might do that), and the weilder can't pay the END cost (as a magic wand might allow), it is going to have to use charges (bullets). These will be simple cartridge based clips. We'll say it is a 4-cartridge clip, and that no special rules about clips or reloading time or anything apply. This will be a -1 limitation that we'll add in with the limitations. If it was a 30-round tommie-gun drum clip, it'd instead be an advantage.

Limitations: The rifle is an Obvious, accessible focus (-1), and we already covered the charges limitation (-1). A rifle needs maintenance or else it will start to jam, so it qualifies for the Real Weapon (-1/4) limitation, but we've already stipulated in this campaign that maintenance requirements are an assumed part of equipment, so (-0). The rifle is two handed, for a (-1/4). Trying to shoot it one handed will subject you to some significant penalties. Same with firing it if you are a 80-lb weakling, so take STR minimum (-1/4). Finally, the gun qualifies for the Beam (-1/4) limitation. You can shoot a person, or possibly shoot a lock off a door, but if you actually have to cut your way through a wall or something, your little tiny bullet holes are going to do bupkiss. Thus your rifle ends up as a 37/(1.00+1.00+1.00+0.25+0.25+0.25) = 13 Real Points.

 

Now some weapons have innate bonuses to OCV or Rmod, which we would have to add, but let's do that with the scope.

 

Scope: this adds powers to the rifle. It could include basic OCV, range penalty remission, or even darkness penalty remission. For simplicity's sake, we'll limit it to range. Let's say that we want to be reasonably able to hit something at 100m, a +8 rMod. That's just 8 2-pt. Penalty Skill Levels taken with obvious accessible...whatwhatwait? Oh no! Penalty skill levels for a single weapon cost 2-pts apiece. You cannot apply limitations to them. Alright, we'll find another way around this. Okay, since we aren't using a power framework, active points are not our primary concern, real points are, so let's use basic OCV (5 pts. apiece). Eight levels of that are (8 x 5) 40 active points. To that we can add Limitation (only to counter range-based penalties; - 1/2), limitation (bonus only applies when set or braced; - 1/2), along with OAF (-1), and real weapon (-0 in this case). Thus, the scope costs 40/(1.00+1.00+0.50+0.50)=13 extra points.

Another method is to use 3-pt. PSLs, even thought the scope presumably is designed for one type of weapon (rifles) and thus qualifies for 2-pt PSLs (but 3 pt. skills can apply limitations). Check with your GM. That makes the active costs (8*3) 24 points, but of course you can't apply the (only to counter range-based penalties; - 1/2) limitation. Thus the total real cost is 24/2.5= 10 points.

 

Taking a guess at your laser rifle, It could be RKA 5D6 for 75 Active Points, but it could be 4D6 with a +1/4 advantage (perhaps the GM is applying Inobvious:does not leave bullet casings at scene to the rifle, perhaps it is armor piercing, or a level of extra range). To get to exactly 24 real points is a challenge (2 total points of limitation would be 25, 2.25 would be 23), but adding a bit of OCV, Rmod, and who knows what else won't make it ridiculous.

 

Yes, weapons are a lot cheaper than powers. They can be taken away, shot, and usually come with charges instead of being power by your END (and rarely have > 16 charges). 

[bigbywolfe]

I'm pretty sure every weapon in the book is built with the real weapon limitation at full value and they are primarily meant for heroic level games. And you don't put restrainable on a knife, even at -0. Saying that is pointlessly complicating things.

[Grailknight]

Getting it precisely correct by RAW is less important than doing it consistently for your campaign. If everyone is way off base, guess what? It's just a house rule 

 

If you are the GM, as long as all weapons of a type are built with the same assumptions for that type, you're good to go.

 

If you're a player get with the GM and use his assumptions for builds.

[WistfulD]

I'm pretty sure every weapon in the book is built with the real weapon limitation at full value and they are primarily meant for heroic level games. And you don't put restrainable on a knife, even at -0. Saying that is pointlessly complicating things.

 

That the items in the book are made for heroic-level games is news to me. Why are we pointing out things if we are just spending money to buy them? As for the decision to give it -0 because it is assumed, I guess I thought it was a rule. Double check says that must be something my GM does. 

 

As for restrainable. I said right in my description that the concept of restrainable was inherent to the concept of a knife, and thus worth nothing. Of course you wouldn't list a non-existent limitation. I was just covering all bases for the person asking for a go-through.

[Armitage]

I am then to count from it's active cost and not real cost, I do not know then what limitation it got or advantages it got, since I got to take them into the calculation aswell. For example once again, the Laser Rifle, Military, it's real Active cost is 75, but it's real cost is then 24. What limitations make it so much cheaper? I Havn't found any tablet calculation for weapon limitations nor advandtages. Ofcourse there are a few like damage and bulky or requier strength to wield it. But Shots? Are that same as charges? Is their range as the same Powers range advantages?

 

 

I assume that you're referencing the Military Laser Rifle on page 194 of the 6e Hero System Equipment Guide or page 190 of 6e Star Hero.  I'm not sure if it appears elsewhere, but it has the cited point cost.

 

2d6 RKA is 30 Base Points.

+2 OCV is bought as two 2-point Combat Skill Levels for 4 Base Points.

+4 RMod is bought as four 1-point Penalty Skill Levels for 4 Base Points.

 

Now we look at the Max Shots and Notes on the weapon table.  They're defined on the Accessories Key/Notes table on page 195 of the HSEG or the Key on page 190 of Star Hero. These apply to the Killing Attack, not the Skill Levels.

 

32 Shots: +1/4 Advantage.

AF5: Autofire-5 shots, +1/2 Advantage.

IMR4: Increased Maximum Range x4, +1/2 Advantage.

 

30 Base Points x (1 + 1/4 + 1/2 + 1/2) = 30 x 2 1/4 = 67 Active Points.

67 + 4 (OCV) + 4 (RMod) = 75 Active Points

 

Next we look at the Limitations, in the STR Min and Notes columns.  These are also defined on page 195 of HSEG and page 190 of SH.

 

Str Min 10: Strength Minimum 10, Cannot Add Damage, -1/2 Limitation.  Ranged weapons don't get the extra -1/2 that melee weapons get for not adding damage.

2H: Required Hands, Two-Handed, -1/2 Limitation.

BBS: Blocked By Smoke Or Steam, -1/4 Limitation.

Beam: -1/4 Limitation.

 

OAF is assumed: Obvious Accessible Focus, -1 Limitation.

Since this is a Heroic-level weapon, Real Weapon is also included: -1/4 Limitation.

 

67 Active Points / (1 + 1/2 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/4 + 1 + 1/4) = 67 / 3.75 = 18 Real Points.

 

Page 195 of HSEG indicates that the OCV Skill Levels are bought with OAF, Required Hands, and Real Weapon, for a total of -1 3/4 in Limitations.  RMod Skill Levels are bought with OAF and Required Hands, for a total of -1 1/2 in Limitations.

4 Active Points / 2.75 = 1 Real Point for OCV.

4 Active Points / 2.5 = 2 Real Points for RMod

 

Hmmm.  That only totals 21 Real Points, not 24.  I checked the errata that I printed out before it vanished from the web site, and there's nothing for either book.  I guess it's a typo.  I know when I was calculating the cost of melee weapons, I always forgot the points for Reach, but that's obviously not the case here.

 

Here's a copy-and-paste from Hero Designer.  Maybe someone else can see what I missed.

 

Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Increased Maximum Range (1,200m; +1/2), 32 Charges (+1/4) (67 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 9-13 (-1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Beam (-1/4), Blocked By Smoke Or Steam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4).  18 Real Points.

 

+2 with any single attack (4 Active Points); OAF (-1), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4).  1 Real Point.

 

+4 to offset a specific negative OCV modifier with any single attack (4 Active Points); OAF (-1), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2).  2 Real Points.

[Scott Baker]

The HD pack only applies OAF to the skills, which gives 18+2+2=22. Still not the 24.

[Doresh]

That the items in the book are made for heroic-level games is news to me. Why are we pointing out things if we are just spending money to buy them? As for the decision to give it -0 because it is assumed, I guess I thought it was a rule. Double check says that must be something my GM does. 

 

As for restrainable. I said right in my description that the concept of restrainable was inherent to the concept of a knife, and thus worth nothing. Of course you wouldn't list a non-existent limitation. I was just covering all bases for the person asking for a go-through.

 

Equipment in superheroic games are just powers with a focus. You can use the equipment table as a guideline, but you don't have to.

 

Points are probably just there as means to compare the weapons. If you just want to wing it, you can just make up some statistics and be good to go.

[Christopher]

As other said, the example weapons in 6E2 are for heroic games.

Same with the material durability tables.

 

Don't look to close at them in Superheroics:

There a weapon is just a damage power with perhaps Focus or OIAID Limitations. It is easy to think of special effects where it is neither.

 

Equipment in superheroic games are just powers with a focus. You can use the equipment table as a guideline, but you don't have to.

 

Points are probably just there as means to compare the weapons. If you just want to wing it, you can just make up some statistics and be good to go.

Actually it is better to not look to close at the weapons for superheroic games. It is totally okay for super games to have a pistol that does Normal Damage. Indeed it is encouraged for every 4-color superhero game.

I can think of a special effect for a sword or bullet doing normal damage faster then most can wonder about it

 

 

About the points:

They do serve purposes for fringe cases. Like making naked advantages or using AID for a weapon.

Also if you use Resource Pools (APG II) for Heroic games, they serve a very real use.

 

On a side note I once adapted a Crafting System that takes Active and Real Cost of the weapon into account to figure out the difficulty. But I never actually got to playtest it.

Both values can be a pointer about wich weapon would be restricted (military only) and cost how much. Just try stuff like "anything above X active point is on restriction level Y". Or using th average between Active Cost and Real Cost as basis for the price formula.

[massey]

Greetings.

 

I really could use some help due to I am really confused on the matter building weapons.

For last month now I been reading alot of HERO 6th and start to get alot of hang of it, how to make powers, advantages, limitations, how combat works and so on. There are still a few things that I havn't grasped yet but still working on it.

 

However, there is one thing that remains unclear to me, the subject in how to build your own weapons. Normal, one could just add Obvious, Accessible Focus (OAF), then add some damage to it and be done with it. But if you want to get deeper into it, there are alot of other variables that need to taken into acount. And when i compared with other weapons I just get confused due to there are no formule that explain why it cost as it does. For example, in the Power book, it all explain step by step of it's diffrent cost steps, +½ advantage or -¼ limitation etc. But the weapons doesn't got such formules. And thus it leave me confused on "How, or why does the weapon cost that sum?" If I would like to take Laser Rifle, Military and then mod it, adding some more damage to it or increase it's range, or perhaps give it some kind of a limitation.

 

I am then to count from it's active cost and not real cost, I do not know then what limitation it got or advantages it got, since I got to take them into the calculation aswell. For example once again, the Laser Rifle, Military, it's real Active cost is 75, but it's real cost is then 24. What limitations make it so much cheaper? I Havn't found any tablet calculation for weapon limitations nor advandtages. Ofcourse there are a few like damage and bulky or requier strength to wield it. But Shots? Are that same as charges? Is their range as the same Powers range advantages?

 

I been looking through the books but I am just get more and more cluess, i been reading through the books but havn't found anything that could explain this to me, what define the costs of the things on the weapons, how much do they cost or make it cheaper, I wish they hade a forumal, or a tablet list stating the cost of things of them, since at the momment I am just lost.

 

If any one could help me define the way they cost or why they become cheaper, that would be great and I would be very thankful.

Thanks alot on before hand!

 

 

Everything in the weapon writeups should be able to be built in the standard rules.  I say "should" because who knows if the somebody made a math error or a typo when they were writing them out for the book (it's not like that has never happened before).

 

"Shots" is probably Charges (I don't have the book with me).  Don't worry if you can't get the numbers to fit perfectly.  Weapons are usually given stats for heroic campaigns -- as such their point value isn't super important because characters will usually be buying them with money and not with points, and as such, they usually don't have their full listing of limitations printed beside them.  If a character is in a superheroic campaign, then they're normally free to buy their gun however they want.  Instead of a 1 1/2D6 RKA handgun, a superheroic character can buy a 4D6 RKA "Giant Freakin' Hand Cannon" because it's his special gun that he paid points for.  So the point value of a normal gun isn't as important.

 

You can see from reading the responses in this thread that people disagree on whether certain weapons should get a points break for certain limitations.  They've been talking about whether a normal gun should get the "real weapon" limitation or not.  In my experience, published point values for Hero equipment often seem to be a little off -- the writer obviously felt there was an additional -1/4 limitation or +1/4 advantage in there somewhere that I don't see.  I've done the math on some of those over and over again and never could quite get them to match up right.  Remember that there's always the possibility that the author made a mistake somewhere along the way, or that he applied one of his own house rules without even thinking about it.  It has happened before.

 

It sounds like you have the idea for how weapons and point values work.  I don't think you're missing anything as far as that goes.  Also you should probably know that there's a lot of disagreement over exactly how powerful the game stats on real weapons should be.  I've often tweaked the values on real world equipment for my own games when I thought something in the book was a little off.

[Epítaph]

my confusion comes from this. i get that weapons(and armour) are powers. however are they powers, linked powers, EC, or MP? i get that most power armour is built as an MP. is it a stretch to say some weapons are either MP or EC. depending on the complexity and edition obviously.

some powers like enhanced senses cannot normally be in a power frame. but if its the suit or weapon giving it(like night vision for example), then i dont see what else it should be listed as.

functionally im trying to create a few concepts.

first is a suit of armour that is powered only to the extent that it has certain functions, like a life support and lights. this i assume would be an EC. all parts of the suit function at 100% at all points in time and the EC is united through the concept of "a suit." this granting a slight discount to each power. i think mine has a discount of like 2 per power beyond the base EC cost of 2.

second is a weapon that has a scope with the ability to toggle nightvision, and it has different types of ammo that can be swapped out with a reload. this i would assume would be a MP. with the optics functioning in addition to the ammo type. the ammo types being divided by fixed MP slots. so the MP active pool would be optics value+highest rated ammo.

am i doing anything wrong in creation concept, and is there even a better way?

Edited August 9, 2022 by Epítaph

[C-Note]

I generally build weapons/armor as a "Compound Power" (6E1p119).  Compound Powers allow you to combine multiple powers which can be used simultaneously into a single item.  For an example, let's look at a simple scoped sniper rifle:

 

Power 1: Killing Attack - Ranged: 2D6 (common Limitations would be "Focus", "Real Weapon", and "Charges")

Power 2: Targeting Scope - +1 OCV

 

An item should be built as a "Compound Power" if the powers can be used simultaneously (such as the sniper rifle with scope).  Total Active Points for a Compound power is the sum of each Power's individual Active Points.

An item should be built as a "Multipower" if you cannot use the powers simultaneously (such as a Blaster Pistol with a Kill setting and a Stun setting).  You get a Point discount for this.

 

For complex items "Compound Powers" can be placed inside of a "Multipower".  For example: A scoped blaster rifle:

Compound Power 1: 2D6 Killing Attack Ranged with +1 OCV

Compound Power 2: 8D6 Blast (Stun) with +1 OCV

 

I hope this helps.

[Hey I Can Chan]

On 8/8/2022 at 7:33 PM, Epítaph said:

my confusion comes from this. i get that weapons(and armour) are powers. however are they powers, linked powers, EC, or MP? i get that most power armour is built as an MP. is it a stretch to say some weapons are either MP or EC. depending on the complexity and edition obviously.

 

Some armors and weapons are just standalone Powers. Other armors and weapons are better modeled as Elemental Controls or Multipowers. Many armors and weapons are combinations of both. For example, a character may have a rifle that can fire different rounds, and this is a good candidate for a Multipower because the rifle can only be fired in one mode at a time. Armor could provide a suite of abilities like Blast, Darkness, and Flight, and because these are Powers that the player wants to use simultaneously an Elemental Control (EC) is a good fit. However, if the rifle is just a Ranged Killing Attack or if the armor only provides resistant defense then there's generally no need for a Framework like a Multipower or an EC. And if the rifle has an artificial intelligence that warns the character of impending danger, then that's probably a separate Power, outside the rifle's Multipower. Likewise, the GM may rule that (for whatever reason) it's not thematic for the armor with the EC that has in Blast, Darkness, and Flight to also have in that EC the Power Mind Scan and mandate that if you want that Power it must be bought outside the EC.

 

The Limitation Linked is a special case mechanically that makes it so that the character can use the Linked Power only when he's using another Power. This Limitation shouldn't be at the forefront of this discussion; it's not particularly common.

 

On 8/8/2022 at 7:33 PM, Epítaph said:

some powers like enhanced senses cannot normally be in a power frame. but if its the suit or weapon giving it(like night vision for example), then i dont see what else it should be listed as.

 

Although a Power may not be in a Framework, a Power can still take the Focus Limitation, and that Focus can be shared with a Framework and other Powers. For example, a player may've bought his character's armor as an Obvious Inaccessible Focus (OIF) and applied that Limitation to the character's EC then bought separately—outside of the EC—the enhanced sense Spatial Awareness also with the OIF Limitation. Both the EC and the Spatial Awareness can come from the same OIF, the armor. Powers don't need to all be in the same Framework to share the same Focus.

 

On 8/8/2022 at 7:33 PM, Epítaph said:

first is a suit of armour that is powered only to the extent that it has certain functions, like a life support and lights. this i assume would be an EC. all parts of the suit function at 100% at all points in time and the EC is united through the concept of "a suit." this granting a slight discount to each power. i think mine has a discount of like 2 per power beyond the base EC cost of 2.

 

Ask the GM before putting Powers that don't cost Endurance (END) in a Framework. (There are other restrictions, but Powers in a Framework must cost END is a pretty reasonable guideline.) Also confirm with the GM that EC: Armor is a reasonable special effect for an Elemental Control. (Traditionally, Elemental Controls are for special effects that are bloody obvious in their thematic connection, like EC: Fire Powers, EC: Light Powers, or EC: Psionic Powers. Your GM might totally be okay with EC: Armor, but I'd ask a player to be more specific, like EC: Magic Armor or even EC: Paladin's Gleaming Armor Of Holy Righteousness or something so we'd both have a better idea of what kind of theme we were using.)

 

By the way, you're not necessarily doing it wrong or anything, but 2 Character Points for an EC is a bit strange. Have you looked at sample characters with ECs?

 

On 8/8/2022 at 7:33 PM, Epítaph said:

second is a weapon that has a scope with the ability to toggle nightvision, and it has different types of ammo that can be swapped out with a reload. this i would assume would be a MP. with the optics functioning in addition to the ammo type. the ammo types being divided by fixed MP slots. so the MP active pool would be optics value+highest rated ammo.

 

The weapon probably is a Multipower and probably an Obvious Accessible Focus (OAF), with each Multipower slot representing a different clip of ammunition. (If you apply no Limitations to the time it takes you to switch slots, you can just say you're really fast at changing clips if that's your jam.) I'd recommend buying the scope separately, outside of the Multipower. Buy an enhanced sense (and maybe some Skill Levels if allowed) with the OAF Limitation and define that focus as the scope that's attached to the weapon. You'll probably want to put further Limitations on that scope to reduce its cost (and subsequent functionality) because normally enhanced senses work all the time. You're probably not imagining your character walking around with his rifle at eye level all the time so that—just in case!—he can see in the dark all the time, for instance.

 

On 8/8/2022 at 7:33 PM, Epítaph said:

am i doing anything wrong in creation concept, and is there even a better way?

 

There's nothing wrong with armored guy with a gun as a concept. The Punisher approves.

[Pattern Ghost]

On 3/21/2015 at 10:44 AM, Armitage said:

+2 OCV is bought as two 2-point Combat Skill Levels for 4 Base Points.

 

I'm not up to speed on 6th Edition: Did the rule about only being able to apply Advantages and Limitations to 5pt and higher skill levels change?

[Hey I Can Chan]

Yes.

12 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

I'm not up to speed on 6th Edition: Did the rule about only being able to apply Advantages and Limitations to 5pt and higher skill levels change?

 

Yes. 6E1 says, "The GM may restrict which types of CSLs a character can Limit; for example he might rule that only 3-point or more expensive CSLs can have Limitations" (71 and emphasis mine), and Hero System Skills says similarly (117). Champions Complete says, "A character cannot apply Limitations to Specific [i.e. 2 Character Point] CSLs" (27), not restricting other Skill Levels.

[HeroGM]

Just to note. Sometimes OUR points, or Hero Designer points, doesn't always match what is written in the books when it's finally done. I've seen one thing cost 11pts, and then when you do it as close to RAW as possible it comes out to be 13pt. You check, double and triple check and it's just something about how it comes across in the book that doesn't add up right.

 

Just a word of caution, so if you don't exactly match something up, just remember it's your campaign and it's valid IN your campaign.

[unclevlad]

What's written in the books sometimes includes hard-to-recognize factors, too.  But yeah, sometimes the published costs don't work out very well, even considering those factors I can extract from similar items.