Hugh Neilson Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Batman has worn a bulletproof vest since the 1940s. Source? I don't think Adam West/60s Batman wore a bulletproof vest, nor do I recall seeing any such accoutrements in the 70's (say his sword duel with R'as al Ghul in the desert). I recall a Batman that the thugs and crazies simply could not hit. Now, in the early 1940's, I believe Bats also was depicted as carrying a gun. That aspect disappeared pretty quickly, and would be dismissed as hugely out of character today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 He used to tout that his cape was bullet proof. Later one of his writers made his chest piece bullet proof ("That's why I have a bright symbol in the middle of my chest" to catch the attention and most of the aim of people with guns) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Batman has worn a bulletproof vest since the 1940s. Yes and no. He explicitly gave up wearing it in an early story. I'm trying to find which one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcw43921 Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 The vast majority of Golden Age heroes who weren't Superman copies bulletproof bricks didn't have armor--of course, the bulletproof vest of the time were heavy and bulky, and didn't go at all well with the sort of form-fitting outfits almost all the heroes wore at the time. I remember Golden Age Batman did wear a bulletproof vest in his first encounter with The Joker--I also remember reading in a comics encyclopedia that he didn't wear it all the time. The Batman of the TV series had a bulletproof "Bat-Shield" that was transparent and folded up into his utility belt--not that he faced off against guns all the time. The Batman of the 1989 movie had full-body armor, which he needed because the movie's criminals not only had guns, they used them. One of my favorite scenes from that movie was when he confronted the two muggers on the rooftop--one of them shoots him, and he falls down, but then he gets back up. You can plainly see the terror in the muggers' faces--you can almost read the thoughts of the one: But I shot him. . . I imagine it's a "different times" kind of thing. I believe I've said before that back in the Golden Age, all you really needed to fight crime was a cape, a mask, and a good right hook. Maybe some detective skills. Nowadays, if you don't have any superpowers, you need a black belt or equivalent in at least six different martial arts disciplines, and ideally an outfit made of kevlar or its next-generation descendant. This is especially true in Champions/Hero System, because no matter how agile your character is, no matter how many CSLs are applied to DCV, there's always the chance that the opponent will roll a three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Source? I don't think Adam West/60s Batman wore a bulletproof vest, nor do I recall seeing any such accoutrements in the 70's (say his sword duel with R'as al Ghul in the desert). I recall a Batman that the thugs and crazies simply could not hit. Now, in the early 1940's, I believe Bats also was depicted as carrying a gun. That aspect disappeared pretty quickly, and would be dismissed as hugely out of character today. A 1940s comic book where the Joker fires a pistol at him and asks him why he doesn't die and Batman answers "A Bulletproof vest". I saw it reprinted in a comic book anthology from the 70s edited by Jules Pfeiffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 A 1940s comic book where the Joker fires a pistol at him and asks him why he doesn't die and Batman answers "A Bulletproof vest". I saw it reprinted in a comic book anthology from the 70s edited by Jules Pfeiffer. That was in Batman #1. The first Joker story ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Batman's been published for damn near 80 years. I'm sure there have been times when he wore a bulletproof vest, and times when he didn't. Either way, I think he's had some form of rPD for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comic Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 I agree. The guy I quoted seemed to be saying Thor didn't have rPD. Thor is an Asgardian god, and among the toughest of them. Of course he has rPD, and plenty of it. But even Asgardian gods have bad days. Thor's were around issue #370-400 or thereabouts, when He mightily offended Hela, and incurred Her wrath in the form of the withdrawal of Her Grace. His bones became brittle; He could not heal from injuries; He could not find remedy in sleep or in death. Now, Thor took this punishment like the Tough Guy that He is for a while, but eventually had to build armor so He could continue to move around as opposed to slither and slosh like so much crunchy gelatin. Over the course of several more fights, his armor got bigger, until the Frost Giants took note that Thor was wearing armor, which to them meant Thor was weak. And they piled on until Thor was nothing but an undying smear leaking into the ground. The reference was meant to allude to that parable, that sometimes it's the guy who isn't obviously armored who is more impressive. Something similar works with Batman. Bulletproof vest or no. Bulletproof cape or no. Bulletproof fabric or no. Somehow, Batman always manages to avoid or ignore bullets long enough to get the job done, and then he heals in remarkably little time to come back more dangerous than ever. It's not the mechanisms, it's the mysteries, that make Batman scary. There's something less impressive about a guy who needs armor, who uses it like a crutch. We see Tony Stark much of the time out of armor in the movies, and he's more in charge, more impressive, for that vulnerability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 A 1940s comic book where the Joker fires a pistol at him and asks him why he doesn't die and Batman answers "A Bulletproof vest". I saw it reprinted in a comic book anthology from the 70s edited by Jules Pfeiffer. That was in Batman #1. The first Joker story ever. Bats uses an array of gadgets that change from story to story. I'm unclear whether this one suggests "I always wear a bulletproof vest that no one notices under my skintight spandex" or "I wore a bulletproof vest special for this occasion and made sure to keep my cloak swirling around me so it would be less noticeable". Batman's been published for damn near 80 years. I'm sure there have been times when he wore a bulletproof vest, and times when he didn't. Either way, I think he's had some form of rPD for years. He's faced gunmen regularly for 75+ years - I'm inclined to agree he has rPD. Just like our Combat Luck model, we know he'd be the BatSmear by now if he lacked rPD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 While its true that in comic books there are a lot of guys without rPD, the writers make sure none of them get killed or shot. In a game, its a bit different, usually. It also makes for all-or-nothing characters, where each attack is either "You missed me!" or "I'm dead", which is not a lot of fun. One of our earliest Champions games had a player who insisted his PC didn't need armor because he was too fast to hit. It didn't take long for the odds to catch up with him, and he was killed by a mook with a lucky roll. Theres a reason Asgardians use swords more than clubs. Yes, but remember an Asgardian with a sword does way more #d6K than a human with a gun. [batfleck voice] Just because you have rDef doesn't mean something can't make you bleed. [/batfleck voice] By the way, I kinda like the ideal of 'damage' being a series of near misses till the blow sends the BODY stat to 0 or below. While I get that concept in principle, I've never liked how it works in practice. Whenever I'd complain about the Death By A Thousand Papercuts in D&D, and someone would handwave it away by saying it wasn't "real" damage, I'd ask "Then why do I have to drink a "real" healing potion to recover?" I never gt a good answer to that one. I suppose you could build a character with additional BODY defined as "You Just Missed Me," and which Heals back automatically after every fight...but Combat Luck is probably going to be cheaper and easier. BTW, one of my favorite builds for Heroic characters is Combat Luck with Limitation Always let's the 1st BODY through, so characters get scratched up a lot but are protected from more serious wounds. But that's less common in the superhero genre IMX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phydaux Posted January 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 It also makes for all-or-nothing characters, where each attack is either "You missed me!" or "I'm dead", which is not a lot of fun. One of our earliest Champions games had a player who insisted his PC didn't need armor because he was too fast to hit. It didn't take long for the odds to catch up with him, and he was killed by a mook with a lucky roll. That's why people say that Champions is a Super Hero RPG and not a Comic Book RPG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 If I were creating a speedster with no rPD, I would give him a speed based Desolid with a few speed tricks he can use when Desolid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 If I were creating a speedster with no rPD, I would give him a speed based Desolid with a few speed tricks he can use when Desolid Never thought of a speed based desolid before. Thumbs up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Never thought of a speed based desolid before. Thumbs up! The Barry Allen version of the Flash has been doing this since the 60's. http://captaincomics.ning.com/forum/topics/amsa-the-flash-master-of-molecules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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