Comic Book Heroes with no rPD

[phydaux]

Back in 3rd ed Seeker got a lot of flack for having no rPD.  Thing is, there are LOTS of comic book heroes running around with no rPD.  The justification is "A guy with a knife becomes a real threat."  Yeah, well, we'll see about that.

 

I'll start with the best example - Spiderman.  He has no rPD.  A street tough with a knife has a chance of causing a serious wound to Spiderman.  IF he can hit him.  Which he can't, but that's another thread.

 

Here's another - Daredevil.  He's got no rPD.

 

Name another comic book hero with no rPD.

[Rails]

Elektra?  Most of the X-Men, although maybe their uniforms give them some?

[Hugh Neilson]

Both characters can also be interpreted as poster children for Combat Luck.

 

Before that build hit the books, I used to see a lot of Damage Reduction (only if mobile) for no rPD agile characters.

[phydaux]

Both characters can also be interpreted as poster children for Combat Luck.

 

Good point.  Although it seems like nearly every PC I make has some Armor (OIF Costume)

[Lord Liaden]

Classic Wonder Woman. That was the whole point of the bracelets-vs-bulllets.

 

Most of the top martial artists -- Iron Fist, Shang-chi, Richard Dragon, Karate Kid.

 

Wolverine, of course, although his ridiculous healing amounts to the same thing.

 

The thing is, an opponent not being able to connect with a cutting or piercing attack is a fine convention in comic books, when the writer can make that absolutely certain. In a game, with the vagaries of the dice, it isn't guaranteed.

[assault]

Batman (some versions. anyway), Green Arrow, Black Canary, Hawkman, Hawkgirl/woman, Batgirl, Catwoman, Flash, the Atom, Robin, Nightwing, most of the Legion of Superheroes, most of the JSA...

[bluesguy]

It also depends on how the GM wants to model weapons in their campaign.  One way to handle it is there are no killing attacks.  Everything is bought as a normal attack.  Maybe with AP or penetrating.  The very first Champions game we played in no one had KA.  Eventually that changed a bit.  It also meant most characters did not have rPD/rED either.

[Christopher R Taylor]

While its true that in comic books there are a lot of guys without rPD, the writers make sure none of them get killed or shot.  In a game, its a bit different, usually.

[Greywind]

[Greywind]

 

[Hyper-Man]

The Flash doesn't have any 'static' resistant defenses but like Spider-Man is virtually impossible to hit unless distracted by something else. I've built versions of both that include Combat Luck. Flash also has his Speed Aura and other tricks available as well.  His ultimate weakness is sometimes getting overwhelmed with saving innocent bystanders and not having enough 'speed' left to devote to personal safety.

[Lucius]

Name another comic book hero with no rPD.

The only characters that have Resistant Physical Defense are characters written up on Hero System game terms.

 

So any character in a comic book that has not yet been written up as a Hero System character is a character without Resistant PD. Iron Man had no Resistant PD until someone wrote him up.

 

If there is a comic book character that has been written up without Resistant PD, I would argue that whoever did the write up didn't do it right.

 

Wolverine has Resistant Protection defined as "Instant Healing." Many other characters would have Combat Luck.

 

If you wanted to, you could write up a version of, say, Superman who doesn't have any Resistant PD. Most people would, I think, agree that it would be a ridiculous version of Superman. If you wanted to, you could write up Daredevil or Wolverine without Resistant PD too.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary buys an Attack vs Alternate Defense that only counts NON-resistant defenses, and declares "Resistance is Useless!"

[Hugh Neilson]

Really, the Combat Luck build was designed around the fact that a lot of characters in the comics has SFX that suggest they are no more resistant to a knife or bullet wound than any normal person, but they consistently engage in combat against opponents with such weaponry, and they always walk away. One approach to this is the bulletproof costume (right down to metal bracelets that the wearer is so quick she can consistently deflect bullets with them). That has been adopted by some comics writers over the years (Batman's costume wasn't always armored; the X-Men adopted the convention that their Unstable Molecule costumes are bulletproof, but I don't ever recall that being mentioned in Fantastic Four, the most recent version of Hawkman, etc.).

 

Other characters just wade through a hail of bullets but miraculously are untouched (Spidey, Green Arrow, classic Hawkman/Hawkgirl, all the "normal guy with a good right hook" golden age mystery men). Basically, characters who are bulletproof get to bounce bullets off their steel-hard skin, shield, bulletproof cloak, armor, etc. and those who aren't always avoid the bullet - until the writer wants to stress how vulnerable they are, in which case they get shot when they don't expect it, or by a lucky thug.

[steriaca]

None of the Sailor Senshi, if I can recall, are bulletproof. Ranma Saotome never encountered anything like a gun in combat. Both examples live in Japan, where even the criminals seldom use guns. Of course, the Sailor Senshi sometimes almost get hit by attacks which are assumed to be deadly, while Ranma has to deal with all types of blades, swords, knifes (used by a nearsighted duck), edged combat spatulas, ect..., ect..., ect.

[massey]

Doesn't mean they can't be written up with rPD.  rPD is a game construct.  It just means you are less likely to take Body from Killing Attacks.

[Comic]

But what's daring about a Daredevil who rigs the game by wearing armor?

 

What's wondrous about a Wonder Woman who just jiggles away the bullets while reading tweets?

 

A Batman who _could_ bleed and so far as the bad guys will ever know never has is far scarier than one who lumbers around in unobtanium-thread bullet-impregnable spanx.

 

It's when Hel-cursed Thor put on armor that the Frost Giants detected weakness and pressed their advantage against him.

 

Combat Luck is a far more fitting defense for these characters.

 

In some campaign settings, I'd distinguish PCs from NPCs by giving PCs a few mandatory points of Combat Luck that NPCs just don't get, to heighten the threat to DNPCs and the peril to ordinary citizens. A world with a lot more low-level KA's is a world with a lot more Stun Lottery and reason to use stealth, defensive tactics and cover.

[Nothere]

That's easy Thor. Theres a reason Asgardians use swords more than clubs.

[Tasha]

Really, the Combat Luck build was designed around the fact that a lot of characters in the comics has SFX that suggest they are no more resistant to a knife or bullet wound than any normal person, but they consistently engage in combat against opponents with such weaponry, and they always walk away. One approach to this is the bulletproof costume (right down to metal bracelets that the wearer is so quick she can consistently deflect bullets with them). That has been adopted by some comics writers over the years (Batman's costume wasn't always armored; the X-Men adopted the convention that their Unstable Molecule costumes are bulletproof, but I don't ever recall that being mentioned in Fantastic Four, the most recent version of Hawkman, etc.).

 

Other characters just wade through a hail of bullets but miraculously are untouched (Spidey, Green Arrow, classic Hawkman/Hawkgirl, all the "normal guy with a good right hook" golden age mystery men). Basically, characters who are bulletproof get to bounce bullets off their steel-hard skin, shield, bulletproof cloak, armor, etc. and those who aren't always avoid the bullet - until the writer wants to stress how vulnerable they are, in which case they get shot when they don't expect it, or by a lucky thug.

 

One thing about the FF is that they don't need their costumes to be bullet proof. They already have that built in. Reed is stretchy enough to not be pierced by bullets, Ben's a huge rock, Johnny is hot enough that the bullets melt before they hit his skin. Susan is either invisible or protected by her forcewalls (or are they at a minimum Forcefields that can protect others? It is possible that Reed can make unstable molecule material that is resistant to bullets and swords. Perhaps what his family wears does have that protection, but we either never see it in action or we are lead to assume that it's their powers that is resisting the body damage.

[Hugh Neilson]

One thing about the FF is that they don't need their costumes to be bullet proof. They already have that built in. Reed is stretchy enough to not be pierced by bullets, Ben's a huge rock, Johnny is hot enough that the bullets melt before they hit his skin. Susan is either invisible or protected by her forcewalls (or are they at a minimum Forcefields that can protect others? It is possible that Reed can make unstable molecule material that is resistant to bullets and swords. Perhaps what his family wears does have that protection, but we either never see it in action or we are lead to assume that it's their powers that is resisting the body damage.

The original (FF) Unstable Molecules were touted as only being able to work with the wearer's powers. It seems like "bulletproof" or defensive only came about in X-Men. I don't ever recall it becoming an issue in FF (despite the number of times they have lost their powers, individually or as a team).

[massey]

That's easy Thor. Theres a reason Asgardians use swords more than clubs.

 

 

No resistant defense, huh?

[steriaca]

 

No resistant defense, huh?

Well, Thor does have resistant defenses. He is an alien "god" from the "planet/relm" Asgard, you know, where all of his people are resistant to damage of the physical kind.

[steriaca]

By the way, I kinda like the ideal of 'damage' being a series of near misses till the blow sends the BODY stat to 0 or below.

[massey]

Well, Thor does have resistant defenses. He is an alien "god" from the "planet/relm" Asgard, you know, where all of his people are resistant to damage of the physical kind.

 

I agree.  The guy I quoted seemed to be saying Thor didn't have rPD.

[Cassandra]

Batman (some versions. anyway), Green Arrow, Black Canary, Hawkman, Hawkgirl/woman, Batgirl, Catwoman, Flash, the Atom, Robin, Nightwing, most of the Legion of Superheroes, most of the JSA...

 

Batman has worn a bulletproof vest since the 1940s.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Daredevil never wore armor until very recently, he's just gotten by with being very agile, knowing where attacks are coming from and avoiding them, etc. He basically fights like a Bene Gesserit - he can tell what you're going to do before you do it by tiny clues in your breathing, heartbeat, movements, etc.  Lots of DCV but probably combat luck just to represent 'glancing blow" or "didn't quite hit"