Better International Heroes

[CaptnStrawberry]

A Steve Rogers gunned down by a comrade and left for dead a la Platoon might return and stage a one-man guerrilla campaign a la First Blood.  I suppose they did try a harder-edged Cap with USAgent.

[Christopher R Taylor]

That was Iron Man's first origin, actually: Vietnam

[freakboy6117]

There is one Nuke the flag faced villain was supposed to be another super soldier his back story is a little convoluted but he was basically cybernerically enhanced and used coloured pills(later stated to be placebos) Red to trigger combat rage blue to bring him down and White to keep him level.

[Cassandra]

Not all countries would have superheroes and villains.  Here is a good rule of thumb.

 

The United States would the the center of the superhuman universe.  Advanced technology and personal freedom would lead to perhaps one superhero/villain per million (300 active at anytime).  Realistically there should be 1 hero for every 2 villains.

 

Western Europe, Canada, England, Australia/New Zealand, and Japan would have one superhuman per 10 million due to both the more restrictive laws and lower technology.

 

Other countries would have superhumans appearing on a one per 50 or even 100 million.  Many countries with repressive and dictatorial histories would have few superhuman heroes or villains because many would have been killed early after developing their powers.  Those nations superhuman would be tightly controlled by the government.

[Lord Liaden]

 

Western Europe, Canada, England, Australia/New Zealand, and Japan would have one superhuman per 10 million due to both the more restrictive laws and lower technology.

 

 

Second justification really doesn't apply to any of those. They're among the most technologically-advanced societies in the world. First one would depend on how you interpret each nation's reaction to superheroes, since they're all generally more liberal as countries go. In the Champions Universe, for example, Japan is so enamored with the idea of superhumans, they have no formal supers-registration laws at all (unlike the United States).

[Christopher R Taylor]

I guess it depends on what you think results in superpowered beings.  If its random mutation, then its going to be more or less evenly spread through the population.  If its special events like magical ley lines converging and affecting people suddenly, it could be very unevenly distributed, and could even be limited to only people with a certain kind of hereditary factor.  If its caused by technological exposure (radiation!) then its going to be clustered around examples of that technology.  If its just humanity "evolving" to a certain point, it might be pressured by external long term forces, such as tyranny, harsh conditions, or even food.  

 

I personally went with the 1 per million has some form of powers (be it ever so small) and 1 in 10 million had enough to be significant for hero level power.

[Lawnmower Boy]

 

 

Western Europe, Canada, England, Australia/New Zealand, and Japan would have one superhuman per 10 million due to both the more restrictive laws and lower technology.

 

 

The moment I read this, I threw the sheepskin off my body, got up off the flagstoned floor, and wrote a letter to the Queen asking for permission to go on the Internet. By the time I was done brushing my tooth with my willow twig, a herald had walked into my hut, cuffed me about the head for my G-d-mn-d insolence, and given me my permission. 

 

And after all that, all I have to say is that it's all completely correct. I mean, I might disagree, but I don't really want to be put in the stocks again this week.

[assault]

Western Europe, Canada, England, Australia/New Zealand, and Japan would have one superhuman per 10 million due to both the more restrictive laws and lower technology.

 

The Cassandra-verse works the way it does. There's no right or wrong involved.

 

That said, I spent some time yesterday thinking about what kind of laws would be "more restrictive" enough to significantly impact on the number of superhumans. All I could come up with was that the most law-abiding superheroes would probably be less likely to use guns and other conventional weapons (not all that effective in a superheroic setting anyway), and that our mad science might be a little less mad. But (mad) science is (mad) science, and not constrained by your puny laws.

[Christopher R Taylor]

There are some laws on speech and public violence in non-US nations that might restrict hero activity (and identity laws, proliferation of cameras, etc).

[assault]

Awesome! So we get all the villains, and none of those pesky heroes!

 

Also: "proliferation of cameras", seriously?

[Christopher R Taylor]

Sure, in England there are zillions of security cameras, all over cities everywhere, in ways that aren't true in the USA.  The US is catching up, slowly, but its not nearly as ubiquitous.

[st barbara]

The things that I have found useful for creating supers in various countries are Technology (especially military technology). mythology (Thor isn't the only god that makes a good super) and radiation (If a country has the bomb, or nuclear power, or is a source of radioactive material, you can have all sorts of characters). Nations such as the USA or Russia score well on numbers one and three, but countries such as Greece or Mexico for example can make up ground with number 2, despite not having much in the way of nuclear or military industries. Nations such as the U K or China could be very well populated with a diverse range of supers under this system.

[freakboy6117]

I always thought that America has more superheroes because of it's melting pot status.

 

genetics the best and brightest came to America the artifacts of ancient cultures around the world where brought back by the robber barons the first Atomic bomb.

 

The psycho spiritual energy of a decimated native culture. Lots of places for powers to come from.

 

Europe is older the magic more confined burned into old patterns and locked down by old compacts and treaties not the wild power of the new world .

 

Third world nations lack the technological advances needed for tech created heroes.

 

South America has it's own magic but corruption and violence have killed off a lot of native powers technology is rarer but a world of possibilities exist in the jungles.

[Roter Baron]

The basic question is: Why have international heroes at all?

 

I am serious about this. The whole genre is so 100% US-American that the point of having heroes or villains from other countries is that they are somehow "un-American". So you have to stereotype.

 

There isn't one, NOT ONE German superhero-comic on the market, and I am pretty sure that besides a parody the French hadn't one either. Same goes for every country in Europe except the UK (Captain Britain and his ilk). There ain't to many Amerivan knights and musketeers either and you are short on Roman legionaires - it is not in your historic background.

 

Superheroes aren't in Europe's cultural heritage either (the British just mimicked their Anglo-Saxon bretheren).

 

All my Champions campaigns have been places in New York City. I couldn't see supers flying through Berlin or Hamburg.

 

So, long story short: Where is the story surplus to habe a German Human Torch or Batman? There is none. He just has a name hard to pronounce to English-speakers (Die Menschliche Fackel) or has a ridiculous ring to German-speakers (Der Fledermausmann - that's so because "bat" translates to "Fledermaus" which means "flying mouse" - not a nome de guerre you are likely to use).

 

So, to make them memorabel and interestingly different use stereotypes that are not no silly. Sometimes it is just a name (Blitz for The Flash - although when I was young he was Der Rote Blitz), sometimes the theme: Einigkeit (Unity) und Recht (Justice)und Freiheit (Freedom) make a fine superheroic, superpatriotic trio, Bundesadler (Federal Eagle) is quite cheese, but Hauptmann Deutschland (Captain Germany) is a no go - sound to militaristic.

 

You should also get the name and spelling right - no Das Wall or Feur! Die Mauer - but East Germany never officially refet to it like that) and Feuer - actually Die Flamme would have been better. Notice: Both are female in grammatical gender, but male in character - Germans don't find that queer.

 

One thing that bores me to death is Nazi villains, especially in today's setting. Been there, done that, and Dr. Jones rode away with my t-shirt.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Actually that would be an interesting twist: only one nation has superheroes, just one.  Why? how would that work?  What would that do to the rest of the world?

[Roter Baron]

This has already been dealt with: Doctor Manhattan from the Watchmen comics. Result: Electric cars in the 1980s, the USA won Vietnam and the SU considers him a a weapon of mass destruction and wants him to be considered in peace talks.

 

Of course it all depends how many more you got. If you have more than one (say all of the DC or Marvel heroes), then the rest of the world is probably very paranoid - or one big colony/ dominion ruled by the "super"-nation or by supers from that nation.

 

I don't see much fun to play in such a world.

[death tribble]

Here I disagree with Der Roter Baron. The British team we had did not have one patriotic hero.

The Flame was an energy projector but not based on the Human Torch. Fire powered, he was a normal person otherwise.

Arachneida was Spider Man as a woman.

The Magician had a variety of powers but fought ordinary crime rather than get involved in Dr Strange style stuff.

The Unicorn was an alien scout.

Mindstorm was a mentalist.

Wolfclaw was basically Wolverine

Boa was a Cobra experiment.

The Voidwalker was an alien

The Magnetic Mistress was akin to Magneto albeit female.

Thaw has ice powers but was a Greek millionaire. He was the Tony Stark corollary.

The Ranger was like a D+D ranger.

Negative Man was the same person from the Doom Patrol

Sureshot was a Hawkeye rip off

Dr Density had mass and mental powers.

The Avenger was a Captain America rip off

There were others but none had the Union Jack or any of the patriotic emblems associated with Britain or any country.

We fought in places we as players knew as it was easier to visualise.

 

My first proper patriot was The British Bulldog. He was a brickie i.e. labourer in the construction industry. He could only see in black and white and had to pant like a dog.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Well it doesn't have to go that way.  If you have a lighter tone in your campaign then the heroes might end up being heroes to the world, looked up to and admired for their selfless work for freedom, justice, and the American Way and all that  What makes me curious is why that would come about, what would cause heroes to only show up in the USA?  Not just one guy with powers, but all of them?

[steriaca]

You want to know, Christopher, why heros and villains with superpowers would only show up in one country? Why, it is simple. The United States are being seeded with superpowers by aliens who want to use them solders in a galatic war. They know the people of the United States are more easyer to control.

 

Why hello guys. No, I don't feal like modling that white jacket with the closed sleeves.

[Lord Liaden]

The basic question is: Why have international heroes at all?

 

I am serious about this. The whole genre is so 100% US-American that the point of having heroes or villains from other countries is that they are somehow "un-American".

 

The basic answer is: Because it's so darn fun for those American PC heroes to travel outside the Center of the Universe, and have to deal with their NPC foreign counterparts on their own home soil. You may not believe this, Baron, but on this side of the Atlantic, Germany actually looks rather exotic.

 

Supers from other countries provide a familiar reference point for American heroes, while potentially being different enough to bring another flavor to adventures. And it's easy to justify conflict with superheroes in another country, politically or socially, should the story need it.

 

I do appreciate your point that the superhero entertainment genre is at its roots an American phenomenon, and most of Europe doesn't share that tradition, at least to the same extent. But keep in mind, that's in the real world. On Champions Earth superhumans are a global phenomenon, and Europe during WW II saw some of the most intense action between costumed heroes. That would have had to have a huge impact on public awareness and interest in the superhuman sub-culture, and many highly visible precedents for successors to emulate.

[Lord Liaden]

One thing that bores me to death is Nazi villains, especially in today's setting. Been there, done that, and Dr. Jones rode away with my t-shirt.

 

Completely understandable, and you have my sympathy. I'm afraid you'll likely have to put up with them for the foreseeable future, though. One of the things I see most often among gamers' requests for villains, is Nazis, neo- or otherwise. They seem to feel anyone who calls himself a Nazi is by definition so vile, they can pound away on him without a shred of guilt.

 

Perhaps to its credit, the current official CU has written up only two villains with a Nazi background. You might feel better knowing that, aside from others who share their philosophy, everyone else in the setting loathes them and thinks they're crazy.

[Scott Baker]

Perhaps to its credit, the current official CU has written up only two villains with a Nazi background. You might feel better knowing that, aside from others who share their philosophy, everyone else in the setting loathes them and thinks they're crazy.

Edit: Never mind. This is the Champions forum.

[Amorkca]

And Red Doom was a supplement that had Russian Heroes, they were portrayed as villains but they were definetely pro- Russia!!

[Lord Liaden]

Not all the supers in Red Doom were villains in sheep's clothing. Some of them definitely were, but others clearly had the same sort of heroic motivations as any conventional superhero. But yes, definitely pro-Russia!

 

I like the approach DOJ took with their former Soviet Union government supers, who have had varying degrees of success adapting to the new Russia. Some reject it and long for a return to the Soviet system and priorities. Others have continued heroing independently, or formed private hero teams without government affiliation. A few walk the grey line of the mercenary, or have just plain plunged into villainy of one stripe or another. It all rings pretty true to me from a character perspective.

[massey]

I agree with a lot of what Roter Baron says.  Superheroes are really an American cultural thing, and most countries don't really share that tradition.  So with foreign characters, usually you're left with an American view of what those characters would look like.  It's like Jamaican anime.  It just doesn't exist, so any Jamaican character in anime is going to be kind of a Japanese stereotype of Jamaica.

 

Most superheroes are American, because other countries just aren't publishing much in the way of superhero comics.  But in a superhero world, it makes sense that the phenomenon wouldn't just be limited to America.  So you're left with a choice.

-America has more superheroes than most countries (maybe a whole lot more), why is that?  Or...

-America has proportionate superhero numbers, so China and India are the real centers of super activity.

 

The second one feels kind of wrong, because those countries don't publish supers comics.  It feels kind of like forced multiculturalism, going out of your way to be "fair" to groups of people that don't buy, or even really know of, your product.

 

You could probably find some Hero Games fan in China, or Indonesia, or wherever, if you looked really hard.  And maybe that guy could be talked into writing up a bunch of heroes and villains based in his home country.  But there's no real guarantee that that guy is gonna be any good at it.  For every Batman or Superman, you've got a dozen guys like the Red Bee.  For every Justice League, there's a group like the Forever People.  Even good writers can churn out a lot of crap.  And really, who are we marketing this to?  If my Scottish hero's secret ID is Seamus McBlarneystone, is anybody gonna care?  There's like one guy in Scotland who is gonna see it.

 

I'd say there's a strong argument that stereotypes in fiction can even serve a good purpose.  This is a comic book world after all.  If your heroes are going to go visit Transylvania, maybe it should look like a set from a 1940s Universal film.  With like castles and peasants and stuff.  Having it be a modern place with free wifi and a Starbucks just kinda ruins the fun.