Vulnerabilities & Susceptibilities

[Amorkca]

I was wondering if we could start a thread about the above, maybe post things that you use in your games for differnet vulnerabilities.

 

Do you have a fire character always take extra damage from water attacks even if they don't have the vulnerability/susceptibility? Because its a natural law?

 

What would you use as a vulnerability for sound based characters (sonics)?

 

 

[Lucius]

I was wondering if we could start a thread about the above, maybe post things that you use in your games for differnet vulnerabilities.

 

Do you have a fire character always take extra damage from water attacks even if they don't have the vulnerability/susceptibility? Because its a natural law?

Of course not.

 

 

What would you use as a vulnerability for sound based characters (sonics)?

Why would such a character have a vulnerability?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

What is the palindromedary's vulnerability?

[Amorkca]

Why wouldn't they?

[steriaca]

Why wouldn't they?

It depends on if the player wants there character to be vulnerable and/or suspectable. Logic be damed, if the player doesn't want his character to take extra damage, then he doesn't take extra damage.

 

Of course, he also doesn't get the extra points involved also...

[massey]

Why wouldn't they?

 

Why would they?

[freakboy6117]

No reason why a fire hero has to take be effected by water if his flames where hot enough it would just turn to steam equally

 

if he produced his own oxygen for the reaction then he could burn in vacuum maybe his flames are mystical pulled directly from hell or the platonic realm of fire where fire exists in it purest form.

 

On the flip side a water elemental character might have so much control of the molecules of water making up it's body that it can prevent freezing and boiling and maintain it's liquid state despite the physics.

[Grailknight]

This is the flip side of the sell-off issue and its basically this.

 

Vulnerabilities and Susceptibilities are Character Options. They are not required unless there is a campaign house rule that the GM mandates They do not have to follow obvious logic. I've seen fire vulnerable to air and water to cold but perfectly fine vs their opposites.

[massey]

The standard "fire guy" is usually vulnerable to water, but it's by no means universal. It really should depend on how the player envisions the power working. Of course, the GM is involved too, depending on how the setting functions.

 

If you're playing a Pokemon themed game, where every power set has a rock/paper/scissors vulnerability that goes along with it, then certain Disadvantages might go along with power sets as a requirement of the setting. But for standard superheroes, there are a lot of characters who have fire powers that haven't ever shown a vulnerability to water.

[Cassandra]

Vacuum Attacks would work well against Sonic Powers, and perhaps a susceptibility to Flash [Hearing] Instant Effect.

[womble]

In other words, if you're going to make your fire guy susceptible/vulnerable to water damage (even if he wasn't going to choose it), tell him to buy the disadvantage, "because that's the way the metaphysics of the setting works." And make sure you're consistent, or you'll get some unhappy players wondering why fiery enemies are not likewise douseable. There's such a variety of settings that people play in that there are no hard and fast rules of what affects which; the only rules are: "You pay for what you use", and the converse of that: "You get points for what you agree to let the GM use".

[Lucius]

Why wouldn't they?

 

Maybe I don't understand the question.

 

What would you use as a vulnerability for sound based characters (sonics)?

This is a classic example of "begging the question." You're not asking "would you use a vulnerability for sound based characters?" you are asking "WHAT would you use as a vulnerability for sound based characters." It seems as if you are assuming that for some reason a sound based character must have a vulnerability.

 

If that's your assumption, I am asking why you make that assumption. If that's not your assumption, I have misunderstood.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

It's probably safe to assume that there will be a palindromedary tagline here

[Amorkca]

I'm hoping for this thread to be something to allow creativity to flow.

 

I know that Vulnerabilities are options for characters but sometimes you can't think of what a suitable Vulnerability or Susceptibility would be. This is the point of this thread.  To give people some other options when designing their characters.

 

Some GM's like to add different aspects into their games and may allow a Fire based character to do more damage if they work with another player who has Air based powers, and the added oxygen increases the effectiveness of their powers, or can hinder their powers if the fight is in a hospitable ward or other place that has oxygen in use.

 

To rephrase my original post and answer one of Lucius' questions above, If a sound based character wanted to take a vulnerability, what would be a good option?

 

And I may have stumped the palindromedary!  No easy feat!

[dsatow]

The best option for any vulnerability would be best made upon the both the character concept and background rather than just a special effect.

 

For example, Killer Frost (DC villain) was not vulnerable to fire/heat.  She survived on it.  Making her vulnerable to heat would not make sense as she used it to survive.  Making her vulnerable to cold would also not make sense given her power takes the heat away from things and freezes them.  If she did have a vulnerability it might be mental attacks as she was sort of insane, though one can argue that being insane might give one mental defense.

 

Not all things have an opposite force, and forcing things to have a counter special effect just for the purposes of a counter special effect can ruin a game as well as any other pitfall.  Whats the opposite of a gas attack or gamma radiation or a stunning presence? (yes, I have seen a presence attack do stun - interesting character write up, sadly not mine)

[steriaca]

Let me think...

 

Fire to Water and/or Ice. Air would aid Fire, but also make it less controllable (as Air pushes Fire/Smoke about). Again, this depends on the character and the concept of the character. Earth can also be a Vulnerability, because lots of it can smother the air needed to produce Fire. Also, Fire cannot exist logically in a Vacuum (no oxygen to consume). Of course, depending on the meta-special effect, that might not be the case. (Magic fire, for example, can burn anywhere. Solar fire can create it's own oxygen to burn, much like the sun does, as the sun and other stars are giant fusion power plants.)

 

Water to Earth. Earth is famed for 'drinking' water. But this vulnerability goes both ways (as Earth turns to Mud, it loses it's drinking capability). Heat and Cold can effect Water (Heat evaporates Water, while Cold changes it to Ice.) Fire would logically get quenched by Water. Water would change Electricity into an area of effect attack, but only if there are large amounts of it.

 

Stands. Basically from the anime series Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. Stands are semi-vulnerabilitle to other Stands. In fact, with many Stands, that is the only way to defeat them.

 

Plasma. Plasma is not exactly like fire. Vacuum doesn't harm Plasma, and dousing it in water only gives you lots of steam and a ball of plasma.

 

Magic, Psionic, and Ki Manipulation are meta-special effects. They follow there own rules while also following the rules of whatever special effect it is attached to. Magic itself is notorious for "helping" standard special effects not have the vulnerability's that which they normally have.

 

This is basically a scattershot on this subject. In short, there are enough reasons to have a vulnerability than not have one, and enough reason to have a vulnerability to something which wouldn't be logical, but fits the character.

 

While I seen a big table list of 'common' vulnerabilities and susceptibilities in past books, it all depends on how common certain powers are among all the villains (and other combatants) your planning on using in your campaign. If more than 75% of your villains can do this type of attack, then it is Very Common. Between 74% to 50%, then it is Common. Between 49% to 1%, then it is Uncommon. (Note: I wanted to say "Between 49% to 25%", but there is no Very Uncommon category normally. If you want to introduce that category, then Uncommon is between 49% and 25%, and Very Uncommon is between 24% to 1%, and gives 3 points value.)

 

Again, the Vulnerability and Susceptibility charts would depend on exactly what type of superhero campaign your playing. A "mental powers" campaign would have mental powers more common than other powers, while a "mutant protectors" campaign would have a more logical vulnerability to Mutant Power Drain attacks. "Mystic Masters" campaigns would have different Vulnerability to "Dark Magic" than a similar mystic in a Champions campaign. And a "Martial Arts" campaign, the vulnerability to other styles of martial arts, old combat wounds which react when hit (a susceptibility), ect.

 

Well, it is a GM call, as is most of Champions. I for one think if you pick a susceptibility and/or vulnerability, that the GM should write it up with the players input. The GM does know his campaign, and who is in it, better than a player does,

[bigdamnhero]

I've actually noticed Vulnerabilities and Susceptibilities being used less often in my games. Seems like I see them more in NPCs/monsters these days; not a single PC in my current game took one. Not sure why, and no idea if it's just us?

 

From previous Champions games, a few of the more clever ones were:

• Vuln to Mind Blasts (the PC actually had a 2nd consciousness riding along in his head, so Mind Blasts created a painful feedback)
• Susc: takes damage from wearing his power armor for more than 1 hour (the armor was actually made for an alien species, so the displays, LS, etc weren't quite fine-tuned for humans)
• Vuln to Magic-based fear attacks (character was afraid of magic already, so magic + fear = more bad. If I had to do this one again, I might do it as a Psych Lim)
• Susc to contact with Iron (for a magical character)
• Vuln to lead (character's powers were all radiation based - note this meant bullets *really* sucked for the PC)
• Susc to water (character's cheap cybernetics weren't waterproofed)
• Vuln to cold powers (reptilian character)

[bigdamnhero]

Thinking about this some more: it seems like lately I'm seeing weaknesses more often built as Limitations on defenses, rather than Complications per se. Again, not sure how much of this is intentional, and how much of it is just my groups?

[Amorkca]

Thinking about this some more: it seems like lately I'm seeing weaknesses more often built as Limitations on defenses, rather than Complications per se. Again, not sure how much of this is intentional, and how much of it is just my groups?

 

I've had a long hiatus from the Hero system and am just getting back into it myself.  Some of the change in Complications is only needing 75 for a 400 pt character so you can get by without using the Vuln/Sus complications.  Whereas back in 4e you needed 100-150 in disads.

 

I'm curious as to whether other GM's find that their players don't use those options anymore too?

 

--------------------

 

From the number of posts to the contrary I see that most people don't use environmental factors.  I'm thinking about the recent Supergirl adventure against an electrically based opponent (Livewire), she used a water main to douse her and knock her out, I know that its difficult to compare a Show with its Writers to a Game mechanic.

 

As a player I wouldn't want things always going against me either but every now and again a well placed environmental aspect can add to the game.

[Anaximander]

Since Hero has as many possible special effects as people have imagination, the possibilities of forces are practically infinite which means the counters to those forces is practically infinite.

 

Let's say hypothetically that a player creates Cheddar Man who taps into the Cheese Force to emit Power of Cheese Blast.  What is the logical opposite of cheese?  I know the example is a bit out there, but even a serious look through science, science fiction, fantasy, and super heroic literature results an a vast variety of options and counter-options.

[DasBroot]

 

I've actually noticed Vulnerabilities and Susceptibilities being used less often in my games. Seems like I see them more in NPCs/monsters these days; not a single PC in my current game took one. Not sure why, and no idea if it's just us?

 

 

Not just you - the closest thing to 'vulnerability' any of my players currently posses are whatever affects their desolidification (and doesn't have any affect on them otherwise).  For example we have one 'ghost' PC whose Desolidification and Regeneration (with the Resurrection advantage) are countered by silver but silver does no extra damage or anything of the sort.  Technically, as far as I can tell, being shot by a regular silver bullet would just bounce off her 20 rPD even as a ghost (she doesn't have anything on her sheet mechanics wise stating her Resistant protection can't be used while Desolidified).

 

It's mostly used by me for designing enemies. 

[bigdamnhero]

I've had a long hiatus from the Hero system and am just getting back into it myself.  Some of the change in Complications is only needing 75 for a 400 pt character so you can get by without using the Vuln/Sus complications.  Whereas back in 4e you needed 100-150 in disads.

Well we're actually using 100 points of Complications in our current game, so I don't think that's a factor. (Heck, one character "stopped counting" at 100, but it we took the way he plays the character and actually gave points for all the Pysch & Social Lims he roleplays, he'd probab;y have closer to 200...but no Vulnerabilities.)

 

From the number of posts to the contrary I see that most people don't use environmental factors.  I'm thinking about the recent Supergirl adventure against an electrically based opponent (Livewire), she used a water main to douse her and knock her out, I know that its difficult to compare a Show with its Writers to a Game mechanic.

I don't see them as much as I'd like. I think is one place where the "if it's not on the character sheet you can't do it" mentality really holds us back. I try to encourage players when they think of something creative like that, but it's so subjective compared to the rest of the system it's challenging.

[Ninja-Bear]

Amorcka for sonics how about vulnerability to counter sonic waves? My son has a character that has both growth and shrinking anf I pulled the Cheshire Cat vulnerability where as he suffers damage if someone shrinks or grows him. My elastic character takes damage from rubber solvents.

[Amorkca]

Well we're actually using 100 points of Complications in our current game, so I don't think that's a factor. (Heck, one character "stopped counting" at 100, but it we took the way he plays the character and actually gave points for all the Pysch & Social Lims he roleplays, he'd probab;y have closer to 200...but no Vulnerabilities.)

 

I don't see them as much as I'd like. I think is one place where the "if it's not on the character sheet you can't do it" mentality really holds us back. I try to encourage players when they think of something creative like that, but it's so subjective compared to the rest of the system it's challenging.

 

 

Thanks for adding this thought of increasing the points in Complications, hadn't really thought about it to this point.

 

The current game I've started has 4 players.  They all start off as having up to 75 pts to build their characters.  They all must have some science skills as they work together in a lab.  I'm randomizing the powers they will get (2 of the four players are new to Hero and superpowers in general).

 

They won't get their first "Super Power" until they reach 20 XP, I give XP for creating a history, providing an image of their toon, background NPC's (thanks for this idea Bolo of Earth) and reports of game events from their characters perspective.  Creative expressions, one of the characters plays a Japanese American girl (Living in Canada) and printed up her notes, which I showed to everyone, cause they were in Japanese script!!  Extra XP for creativity!!  Several of the players have found their "Pad" and copied floor plans and filled their apartments with items.

 

I have a story arc I'm following and once that arc ends, they can continue with their existing characters or create brand new characters for future games.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Let's say hypothetically that a player creates Cheddar Man who taps into the Cheese Force to emit Power of Cheese Blast.  What is the logical opposite of cheese?

 

 

Chalk, of course.  Seriously though its tough to get players to take vulnerabilities because of their very nature (this makes me weaker?  And I want that why, exactly?)  They add a lot to the game, and are fun to play if you like role playing and some puzzle solving, but not everyone is in that mode.  I try hard to build villains so they have built in exploitable weaknesses like a personality quirk or vulnerability, dependence, focus, that kind of thing.  Its fun to outsmart a villain or find their weakness to take advantage of, particularly the really powerful ones.  I'll never beat Talos, the giant statue in a fist fight, but that valve on its heel looks significant...

[bigdamnhero]

Seriously though its tough to get players to take vulnerabilities because of their very nature (this makes me weaker?  And I want that why, exactly?)  They add a lot to the game, and are fun to play if you like role playing and some puzzle solving, but not everyone is in that mode.

I can only speak for my limited sample size, but I don't see a reluctance to take weaknesses; it just seems like I'm seeing them built into Powers as Limitations more often than taken as Vulns/Suscepts.

[Cassandra]

In fiction a vulnerability is a means of capturing a hero, and a susceptibility is a means of putting the hero in peril.  

 

Wonder Woman was vulnerable to "A blow to the back of the head" and this was used often as a means to capture her.  Superman is vulnerable to magic, and that was used to neutralize his powers.

 

Green Kryptonite is a deadly danger for Superman.  Not only does it weaken him, it slowly kills him.