Lord Liaden Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Second time that disclaimer's been used on me in this thread. it gets tired fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Second time that disclaimer's been used on me in this thread. it gets tired fast. I apologize. I did not mean to belittle you but mock the internet itself. And can even understand. But in a longer wording of much the same, it is human nature. I suspect that the more we have real world examples etc to draw on, the more we expect some adherence, at least those who have taken time to study said areas do. For example, I'm not a paleontologist , so I don't care if this dinosaur breed shouldn't be with THAT dino type... but if I spent time to research, it might frustrate me to find inaccuracies like that. Myths are more malleable. That said, I agree that it's best to remember the goals of this movie is as an action superhero film meant to be entertaining, and the rest is tertiary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranxerox Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Did the big ship run aground? People keep mentioning this, but I don't remember seeing it in the movie (though that could have been because I was too busy looking at the amazons to notice). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 If you really want to nitpick, the village of Veld in Belgium is about 5 miles behind the lines in 1917*, and the only two castles nearby are far more attractive than the one in the film. * Just south of the Zedelgemsesteenweg, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Did the big ship run aground? People keep mentioning this, but I don't remember seeing it in the movie (though that could have been because I was too busy looking at the amazons to notice). It was listing at an impossible angle in the background of one shot, very briefly. It really looked like it was added in post when someone asked "Why doesn't the German cruiser show up and blow all the Amazons off the beach?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranxerox Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Thanks, I missed that brief shot. I'm planning on going to see it again next weekend, but I am pretty sure I will miss it a second ti,e. I mean, c'mon, Robin Wright, Connie Nielsen and Ann Ogbomo, why would I be looking at the ocean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 But we saw more small boats than that out on the water ahead of the ship, searching through the fog, before they discovered Themiscyra. For whatever reason this must have been a special case. (The real reason being cinema, of course, so we could have a mass landing invasion for the Amazons to repel.) But really, this isn't history. We have Amazons, mythic gods, super-power gas... can't we make allowance for one military ship with a few extra boats? Yeah, I guess in this movie, the SMS Schwaben was the result of German super-science experiments, with its role as a training vessel merely a cover story, and it had the superpower of being able to deploy as many dinghies as it wanted. I mean, this is a world with Amazons, mythic gods, and super-power gas, so obviously anything and everything can be super-powered and capable of defying both history and physics. None of that interfered with my enjoyment of the film, mind you. I just wish that period film productions were as diligent about historical accuracy throughout the production, and not just with the costumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Are you saying that the SMS Schwaben is some kind of forerunner to USS Voyager with its infinite supply of shuttlecraft? (Because that wouldn't be the craziest thing I've read today.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Um, I don't know if having extra boats put aboard for a special mission really counts as a "super-power" for said ship, or that it defies physics.Did they really have absolutely no room to carry things they normally don't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 I apologize. I did not mean to belittle you but mock the internet itself. No, I apologize. I didn't mean to cast aspersions on you specifically. I guess I just get tired of hearing that chestnut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 But really, this isn't history. We have Amazons, mythic gods, super-power gas... can't we make allowance for one military ship with a few extra boats? Hey, everyone's suspension of disbelief stumbles on different things, especially when it rubs up against something you have KS in. For me, the existence of superpowers, gods, etc in some ways exacerbates this because I'm already being asked to suspend my disbelief for the fantastic elements - so the more "real world" stuff they get wrong, the more they threaten to pull me out of the movie. Then I'm no longer immersed in the story world, I'm just watching someone's made-up nonsense. Which can also be fun, but isn't nearly as engrossing for me. That said: yeah, a few extra boats is pretty far down on the list. But it can also be fun to explore something after the fact and see how closely it matched reality; not out of criticism but out of, y'know, learning something? If you really want to nitpick, the village of Veld in Belgium is about 5 miles behind the lines in 1917*, and the only two castles nearby are far more attractive than the one in the film. That was actually one of the major "nitpicks" that pulled me out of the movie the first time I saw it: why is there a village so close to the lines this late in the war, and why are they talking like the Germans just took over the village if - as we're specifically told - the front hasn't moved more than 2" in as many years? And how did all those fleeing civilians and their carts get across no-man's land when we're specifically told no one can survive out there? None of it makes any sense in the historical context. And yes, you can always answer "because story." But I'm sorry, that's just a lazy-ass excuse for sloppy writing. I could probably come up with 10 different ways they could've made that same scene work without contradicting themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 No, I apologize. I didn't mean to cast aspersions on you specifically. I guess I just get tired of hearing that chestnut. My apologies as well, as I think I may have tossed that chestnut on the fire before. Aaaaand now I have Chestnuts Roasting On An Open Fire running through my head. It probably won't vacate the premises until after Christmas, either. Guess that's the price I pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Hey, everyone's suspension of disbelief stumbles on different things, especially when it rubs up against something you have KS in. For me, the existence of superpowers, gods, etc in some ways exacerbates this because I'm already being asked to suspend my disbelief for the fantastic elements - so the more "real world" stuff they get wrong, the more they threaten to pull me out of the movie. Then I'm no longer immersed in the story world, I'm just watching someone's made-up nonsense. Which can also be fun, but isn't nearly as engrossing for me. That said: yeah, a few extra boats is pretty far down on the list. But it can also be fun to explore something after the fact and see how closely it matched reality; not out of criticism but out of, y'know, learning something? That was actually one of the major "nitpicks" that pulled me out of the movie the first time I saw it: why is there a village so close to the lines this late in the war, and why are they talking like the Germans just took over the village if - as we're specifically told - the front hasn't moved more than 2" in as many years? And how did all those fleeing civilians and their carts get across no-man's land when we're specifically told no one can survive out there? None of it makes any sense in the historical context. And yes, you can always answer "because story." But I'm sorry, that's just a lazy-ass excuse for sloppy writing. I could probably come up with 10 different ways they could've made that same scene work without contradicting themselves. WW also found (and threw) a British tank in Veld, 5 miles behind German lines, and the monoplane Steve Trevor stole was a model that had been phased out of service by 1916. Trevor also wore a Blue Max, which would have attracted an incredible amount of attention. The real Ludendorff died in 1937 and was not a supervillain (but was still a dick). But the biggest error I saw was sailing from Themyscira to London in one night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 That last one bothered me a little too. Even being dragged by a steamer as seemed to be the case, the trip from the Aegean (which is where Themiscyra must be, not just mytho-historically but because the German gas factory was in Turkish territory) to England would be pretty hefty. You could say Steve and Diana were together much longer and Patty Jenkins didn't want to show it, but the way the scenes were edited certainly made it seem like only one night had passed. (And Diana must be a really sound sleeper to not have heard that steamer hitching to their boat.) But from the storytelling perspective it probably worked better the way Jenkins handled it, so I'll allow some dramatic license. I look at the whole movie with that caveat in mind, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Um, I don't know if having extra boats put aboard for a special mission really counts as a "super-power" for said ship, or that it defies physics.Did they really have absolutely no room to carry things they normally don't? There would have been no opportunity to retrofit the Schwaben for the hunting mission given the extreme time constraints the pursuit was under. It would have taken many days to sail to a nearby German (or Turkish) port where said boats could be procured, transfer them, and then return to open water along the path Trevor's plane was suspected of flying days prior. Besides, there would have been little reason to perform such an unconventional "upgrade" given that they were only after one man, and with little or no reason to think they'd need to perform a beach landing in force to retrieve him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 It would seem that in this timeline, the captain of the Schwaben learned a lesson from the incident with the Titanic about having enough boats on board. Contrary to standard German naval practices, he keeps a large number of boats stashed around his ship. He's able to get away with this because in this cinematic universe, charismatic high-ranking people (like Ludendorf, for instance) get a lot of leeway. One would assume that when he sent the three boats out to look for the downed airplane, he was congratulating himself on being able to send out a force large enough to deal with Trevor (our hypothetical captain being genre-savvy enough to know that a mere dozen mooks against one dashing spy isn't good odds). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Assuming of course that this is the Schwaben, and that in this universe the Germans didn't happen to have another ship in the Mediterranean. Or that they couldn't borrow more boats from the Turks, who were already allowing the Germans to build a secret chemical weapons plant on their soil, which also didn't happen in the real world. You see where I'm going here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shadow Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Roddenberry's Axiom: Accuracy where possible, but be willing to stretch for a good story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 WW also found (and threw) a British tank in Veld, 5 miles behind German lines, and the monoplane Steve Trevor stole was a model that had been phased out of service by 1916. Trevor also wore a Blue Max, which would have attracted an incredible amount of attention. Heh, I didn't catch the tank or the plane. Tho the plane is easy enough to justify: German operations in Turkey were considered such a low priority that all the planes they could get were obsolete hand-me-downs. And I thought the same thing about the Blue Max, but Hollywood always tends to overdo it on the medals anyway - it's recognizably German, so Trevor must wear one so the audience knows he's in a German uniform. Same reason why half the US Generals in movies have the Medal of Honor, a CIB, and at least three Purple Hearts. That last one bothered me a little too. Even being dragged by a steamer as seemed to be the case, the trip from the Aegean (which is where Themiscyra must be, not just mytho-historically but because the German gas factory was in Turkish territory) to England would be pretty hefty. You could say Steve and Diana were together much longer and Patty Jenkins didn't want to show it, but the way the scenes were edited certainly made it seem like only one night had passed. (And Diana must be a really sound sleeper to not have heard that steamer hitching to their boat.) Yeah, that bugged me as well. I'll put that one down to sloppy editing. It would seem that in this timeline, the captain of the Schwaben learned a lesson from the incident with the Titanic about having enough boats on board. And Zeropoint wins the No Prize for post-hoc rationalization! Assuming of course that this is the Schwaben... Well, that's the name that was on all the boats. Whether it was "our world's" Schwaben or not is another matter, but they did choose to name it after a real world ship, which inevitably invites real-world comparisons. Roddenberry's Axiom: Accuracy where possible, but be willing to stretch for a good story. True dat. But in general the less stretching you have to do, the better. And there were so many spots where they could've papered over the plot holes easily but just didn't bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Its just nice to have a discussion of a DC movie that is about minutae and curiosities, rather than a brutal full-scale violation of their character and the very idea of heroism and justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Fair point there. If the biggest problem about a superhero movie is a whoops on a boat's specs and capabilities, it's ...doing pretty damn well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 I'm pretty sure ticket sales will tank as soon as this boat story hits the news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 I'm pretty sure ticket sales will tank as soon as this boat story hits the news. Shhh don't tell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_A Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Well, somewhere hot just froze over. I found someone who didn't like the movie. Just don't tell him about the boats, tanks or planes. We wouldn't want to give the poor man a heart attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 My favorite review is from the HISHE guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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