Centaurs - Should they have Extra Limbs?

[Killer Shrike]

2 hours ago, dmjalund said:

It could be a monkey who’s had an injury

 

A poor little amputee monkey. So sad.

[Christopher]

17 hours ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

Well, let's run a thought experiment.  Two players show up to your game at the last minute with centaur characters.  One centaur has Extra Limbs, the other does not.  There is, for some contrived reason, not enough time to rework anything. 

How do you make Extra Limbstaur's Extra Limbs matter?  What benefit does Extra Limbstaur gain in this game that Normal Limbstaur does not receive? 

I would not try to make it mater and just fix it for the next Session. Maybe review how this miscommunicaiton even happened.

 

That is one Session the player will not get the Benefit of a 5 point power. Wich was fairly situational to begin with. And hopefully 99 Session where he would not have it on the sheet.

It is like a GM sometimes has to do a "on the spot" ruling to later read through the rules.

 

Focussing on this is not remotely worth the effort since it will not be a problem down the road. I mean seriously, after this information the one player has 5 more points to work with. Points he thought were tied up in a mandatory power. He can propably erase it and buy some other stuff he wanted in it's stead the very moment I say "you do not need extra limbs and indeed I can not think of how it would be a benefit/work".

[Tom Cowan]

7 hours ago, Killer Shrike said:

 

Sorry, can't resist...monkeys have tails, apes (chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, orangutans, gibbons, and humans) do not.

 

Many parents of small children know this thanks to the immortally annoying lyrics to an obnoxious Veggie Tales song:

 

If it doesn't have a tail it's not a monkey
Even if it has a monkey kinda shape
If it doesn't have doesn't have a tail it's not a monkey
Well maybe we could catch it on the tape
If it doesn't have a tail it's not a monkey if it doesn't have a tail it's not a monkey it's an ape
 

 

 

So frogs are APES! 

[Duke Bushido]

11 hours ago, Killer Shrike said:

 

If it doesn't have a tail it's not a monkey
Even if it has a monkey kinda shape
If it doesn't have doesn't have a tail it's not a monkey
Well maybe we could catch it on the tape
If it doesn't have a tail it's not a monkey if it doesn't have a tail it's not a monkey it's an ape
 

 

 

 

 

Well thank you for making sure I didn't get through life without being exposed to that.  

 

 

Now.....

 

who can I pass that on to.....   

 

 

hmmmm....

 

 

 

 

 

[Killer Shrike]

21 hours ago, Tom Cowan said:

So frogs are APES! 

 

That might be stretching the speciation guideline a bit further than intended. Here's a helpful infographic, however, in the scope of primate differentiation.

 

[Ninja-Bear]

In Tai ChI the fancy stances are to trap the opponents legs. So if you have “extra limbs” so you can grab the opponent and are able to pummel him with your hands. The Centaur could similar things. If he grapples an opponent with his hands, he could still kick with his legs or grab with his legs.

[Lucius]

3 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

In Tai ChI the fancy stances are to trap the opponents legs. So if you have “extra limbs” so you can grab the opponent and are able to pummel him with your hands. The Centaur could similar things. If he grapples an opponent with his hands, he could still kick with his legs or grab with his legs.

 

So because some Centaur, somewhere, might possibly study Tai Chi, all Centaurs have to pay for Extra Limbs?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Paying for an extra palindromedary

[Killer Shrike]

If I were to charitably paraphrase Ninja-Bear, as # of limbs matters for certain Grab based maneuvers a centaur-like creature with 4 legs and 2 arms might circumstantially gain some benefit in situations where an opponent used such a maneuver against them. 

 

[Lucius]

8 minutes ago, Killer Shrike said:

If I were to charitably paraphrase Ninja-Bear, as # of limbs matters for certain Grab based maneuvers a centaur-like creature with 4 legs and 2 arms might circumstantially gain some benefit in situations where an opponent used such a maneuver against them. 

 

 

......I may want to rethink my position...

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Counting limbs on a palindromedary

[Ninja-Bear]

3 hours ago, Lucius said:

 

So because some Centaur, somewhere, might possibly study Tai Chi, all Centaurs have to pay for Extra Limbs?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Paying for an extra palindromedary

Only if he want to do leg locks as I understand using extra limbs in this case. You know, that would put a new meaning on the maneuver “Parting the Mane”.

[Ninja-Bear]

Your fine KS. As I understand  it, if I want to grab and punch some one, I need the required number of “hands” correct? So a normal human can hold with one hand and hit with the other. I believe using one hand is -5 STR to grab. So if I had a four armed guy (with extra limbs) there would be no question of being to hold and pummel. It’s when we get to oddities like people that can use legs as arms or snakes that can use their bodies in someways like limbs (at least not get penalized) but have no limbs that used to give me fits. So I believe even for a Centaur doing Tai Chi leg locks, he would need extra limbs say for the leg to trap the opponents leg and be able to punch the opponent. Plus  with extra limbs, if someone sneaks in behind, he can still use his back legs to attack since they aren’t tied up.

[Christopher]

11 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

In Tai ChI the fancy stances are to trap the opponents legs. So if you have “extra limbs” so you can grab the opponent and are able to pummel him with your hands. The Centaur could similar things. If he grapples an opponent with his hands, he could still kick with his legs or grab with his legs.

Horse legs do not have anything close to human leg freedom of movement. Their ability to sleep standing requires a very riggid legstructure.

Sort of standing right on my feet with the forelegs (something that is very dangerous for the horse), is see no way for it to bind my legs with it's legs.

 

10 hours ago, Killer Shrike said:

If I were to charitably paraphrase Ninja-Bear, as # of limbs matters for certain Grab based maneuvers a centaur-like creature with 4 legs and 2 arms might circumstantially gain some benefit in situations where an opponent used such a maneuver against them.

The Grab and Point of Origin Rules already cover that.

If the "point of Origin" of a power is a leg, the enemy has to grab all 2/4/8 Legs to disable that power.

 

But again, Horses do not seem to get any redundancy out of their extra legs. The horse it uniquely hyper-engineered for speedy and enduring running.

So much it is the only species - besides humans and apes - that even controls heat via sweatglands. Nearly any mamal has them, but only humans, apes and horses use them as a major/relevant thermoregulation feature.

When predators hunt Horses or horselikes, they always easily trip them with a single attack to the legs. And at that part the hunt is decided. That is how bad they are at fighting prone.

A horse or horselike that was tripped or lay down, takes very long to right itself. So much so, in the wild horses sleep almost exclusively standing.

The only time horselikes have used their legs in fights, was to attack a enemy directly behind them. With proper bracing to not fall over from the try.

 

Extra running? Totally

Complicaiton that makes Prone even less desireable? Propably.

Knockback Resistance? Adviseable if you got that complication.

Extra Limbs? Not that I can see it. You got more limbs, but you actually get less use out of those 4 limbs then a human get's out of 2.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah extra limbs are useful in grab maneuvers: they let you still act with your "arms" (however many you bought) even if some of them have been restrained with a grab.  A horse has no arms, but it can kick from both ends.  If you grab 2 limbs, it can't kick with either since they need to stand on the other ones to balance.  A centaur has arms that they can still use even if two limbs have been grabbed.

So... yeah gonna reverse my previous ruling and say Centaurs have extra limbs.

[Christopher]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Yeah extra limbs are useful in grab maneuvers: they let you still act with your "arms" however many you bought" even if some of them have been restrained with a grab.  A horse has no arms, but it can kick from both ends.  If you grab 2 limbs, it can't kick with either since they need to stand on the other ones to balance. 

Can it really attack from both ends? Horses in the wild almost exclusively attack with their hind legs. Despite the fact that they are awkward to use, have a huge telegraph and you can not even look where you kick, 90% of the cases they just use them. Front legs seem to be limited to emergency uses or trampling over smaler targets. Maybe a bit of posturing. But not combat:
 

 

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

A centaur has arms that they can still use even if two limbs have been grabbed.

A human has two arms he can use when both legs have been grabbed.

A human has two legs he can both use when both arms have been grabbed.

So that is not really a ability that exceeds normal human ability. If anything they loose the human ability to fight half-effectively while prone.

[Toxxus]

The obvious power of the Centaur body type comes into play when an enemy grabs his arms and another grabs his front legs.  On his next phase he kicks the crapola out of someone behind him.

 

Beware his (almost never useful) power!

[dmjalund]

if grabbing limbs were such an issue, we would be paying for Extra Limbs per limb

[Scott Ruggels]

19 minutes ago, dmjalund said:

if grabbing limbs were such an issue, we would be paying for Extra Limbs per limb

Like it was before.

[Ninja-Bear]

1 hour ago, Toxxus said:

The obvious power of the Centaur body type comes into play when an enemy grabs his arms and another grabs his front legs.  On his next phase he kicks the crapola out of someone behind him.

 

Beware his (almost never useful) power!

That’s why it’s cheap! 3pts

[Ninja-Bear]

1 hour ago, Toxxus said:

The obvious power of the Centaur body type comes into play when an enemy grabs his arms and another grabs his front legs.  On his next phase he kicks the crapola out of someone behind him.

 

Beware his (almost never useful) power!

That’s why it’s cheap! 3pts

[Christopher R Taylor]

I could see it being 3 points to have an extra limb then 1 point to double the number.  If you have 300 limbs, its gonna cost you a little, but not much (11 pts).

[IndianaJoe3]

Should a millipede pay more for Extra Limbs than a centipede? Should either need it at all?

 

Insects have six legs. Arachnids have eight. Do either of them need Extra Limbs?

[Scott Ruggels]

1 hour ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

Insects have six legs. Arachnids have eight. Do either of them need Extra Limbs?

 

Yes, probably, They would also have shrinking, plus however you want to build their venom. I mean a spider the size of an old Silver "Ike" Dollar, can still kill you.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I would argue no, since the legs don't function for anything except movement.  I mean you're not gonna grab a spider so bad it can't move its other legs, but its not going anywhere until it breaks free of your grab.  I mean, if you were crazy enough to grab a spider.  Extra Limbs assumes some function of the limbs beyond mobility.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

5 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I would argue no, since the legs don't function for anything except movement.  I mean you're not gonna grab a spider so bad it can't move its other legs, but its not going anywhere until it breaks free of your grab.  I mean, if you were crazy enough to grab a spider.  Extra Limbs assumes some function of the limbs beyond mobility.

So a spider's extra legs aren't Extra Limbs, but a centaur's extra legs are Extra Limbs?  Why do you draw that distinction? 

[Steve]

Spiders use their legs to grab prey and also in constructing their webs, so their legs are used for more than mobility. They could also use their extra legs to help them break free from anything grabbing them.