A Thread For Random RPG Musings

[Scott Ruggels]

2 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:Thirdly, I always hated coming up with Disadvantages. I barely can come up with a back story at times. So I rather take Disadvantages that I can enjoy (if that’s the right word) than load up on frivolous Disadvantages that I’d ignore anyways.    

Honestly, I did the same thing on my second Champions character, and took less than maximum (241 points when the max was 250, and I still kicked ass). Warboar might work at 225 even. Still fun to play around with. 

[assault]

On 9/25/2022 at 9:31 PM, Ninja-Bear said:

So on a lark I created a 3e character at 200 pts. I also used the recommend guidelines in the book but I used the minimum stats. I did this just to see the interplay of numbers and dice. Now I just had a battle against 3 UNTIL agents. Although Warboar went down, it was interesting and fun.

 

Poor Warboar!

 

Using the minimum stats meant he was terribly nerfed. Good for an exercise, but not how "real" characters were back then.

 

Even on the same points and avoiding Limitations, it was easy to build a more formidable character.

 

Mind you, the 3e VIPER agents were better equipped than their precursors. They could easily have been more of a problem for my wiseguy builds. That's when I would have started applying Limitations.

[Ninja-Bear]

@Scott Ruggels and @assault, I might bump up Warboar to 225 pts.  I noticed that UNTIL and Viper are built with 10d6 expectations. I got this because with their armor or force field they both equal to 10PD/ED which would be equal x1 DC. I think Fourth ED explains the relation of DC and PD. At 8D6 the UNTIL actually has a x1 1/4 ratio. Also Warboar having a modest 20 DEX which gives him a CV 6.  Even with a Skill roll or two, well the dice rolls were *ahem* dicey. So the question is then to me is how do I see the game world? And how do I use the game resources? I can make the villains and agents wimpier but  is it worth it? I don’t think so. Even using Thug 1, warboar didn’t feel Super. Now I don’t want to go too far the other way where everyone was at the high end either. When I started it was 4th ed and everyone was almost maxed at starting 60 pts or 12D6. Still its being fun.

[Ninja-Bear]

I do enjoy using Turn Mode and I am liking RED END. It reminds me of Battletech in the sense that the original stuff you gave up something for something. Next time I battle I’ll use the sweet Rosie’s street map. That should add some twists in the battle. Also Skill levels are nice too. I like that I don’t have to worry about using CSLs to potentially increase damage. And being priced at 3 or 5 pt. which is the most I’ve used are cheap enough to be viable but not enough to go free spending on them. I also built Zenith who is a Speedster-SPD 6 with +20” Run. Not too much more just to get a feel for the Movement rules. And Mallet and Stretching guy. 

[Ninja-Bear]

Correction, Warboar has a natural CV 7.

[tkdguy]

On 9/29/2022 at 1:46 AM, Ragitsu said:

PCs as royalty: yay (adds notable flavor and opens up opportunities), nay (takes extra work and is often a means to justify inordinate wealth that upsets a game) or somewhere in-between?

 

I have issues with that, mainly because I randomly rolled a noble background, tried to come up with a backstory, and the GM said my character was disinherited. And it was mainly because my backstory didn't mesh with the way his world worked, which he hadn't explained, btw.

[Ninja-Bear]

8 minutes ago, tkdguy said:

 

I have issues with that, mainly because I randomly rolled a noble background, tried to come up with a backstory, and the GM said my character was disinherited. And it was mainly because my backstory didn't mesh with the way his world worked, which he hadn't explained, btw.

Ouch, tough to come up with a backstory without context.

 

I had a thought while walking the dog about Elemental Controls.  Are they really that much more abusive than buying Powers through a Focus -especially someone like Armadillo? 

[assault]

12 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

@Scott Ruggels and @assault, I might bump up Warboar to 225 pts.  I noticed that UNTIL and Viper are built with 10d6 expectations. 

 

For 225 points, try something like this:

 

100 points worth of Characteristics.
26 Dex - 48 points

23 Con - 26

7 ED - 2

6 Spd - 24

 

100 points of Powers.
50 Strength - 40 points

12 PD/12 ED Armour - 40

10" Flight - 20

 

25 points of Everything Else (including Pre, Skills).

 

Figured Characteristics at base, aside from the extra ED.

Should be able to handle VIPER agents, although vulnerable to Flashes and stuff.

 

It might be worth putting 1/2 End cost on his Str. Include that in the Everything Else.

[Duke Bushido]

56 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

 

I had a thought while walking the dog about Elemental Controls.  Are they really that much more abusive than buying Powers through a Focus 

 

 

No.

 

The "abusiveness" of EC seems to be just assumed at this point, since it is kind of a freebie.  It is not as much of a freebie as many folks think it is, given the spending requirements.  

 

Also given that the game evolved so that ECs were affected by drains and such as "drain one; drain the all," and the existence of "unified," which does _not_ (as far as I can recall; I may be off here, as I haven't read the new stuff in quite some time at this point) have soending requirements, the problems with EC can be boiled down to "he got fifteen points and I didn't!" or somethibg along those lines.

 

However, to _genuinely_ find this as a flaw in the rules one has to accept both that all things upon which points can be spent are one-hundred percent equal in utility and "usage costs" such as END and how many times it may be used ib the game and other things,

 

And accept that all players given a certain number of points will make equally cost-effective and equally effective characters.

 

With the number of conversations over the years about min-maxing, rules-lawyering, and when something should coat points or not coat points, I have to suggest that anyone claiming those last two actually _are_ true -- well, he may not be lying, but he is certainly rememvering something incorrectly.

 

 

 

However, I have been beating that horse since 5e, and it has garnered nothing but vehement disagreement, so I am going to say "welcome aboard" and bow out.

 

[Ninja-Bear]

@Duke Bushido, I also come to the conclusion that it isn’t the rules so much as players that can break the game.  

[Ninja-Bear]

4 hours ago, assault said:

 

For 225 points, try something like this:

 

100 points worth of Characteristics.
26 Dex - 48 points

23 Con - 26

7 ED - 2

6 Spd - 24

 

100 points of Powers.
50 Strength - 40 points

12 PD/12 ED Armour - 40

10" Flight - 20

 

25 points of Everything Else (including Pre, Skills).

 

Figured Characteristics at base, aside from the extra ED.

Should be able to handle VIPER agents, although vulnerable to Flashes and stuff.

 

It might be worth putting 1/2 End cost on his Str. Include that in the Everything Else.

Incidentally, I’m going to have to have Warboar Flashed and check out those mechanics. I did by Discriminatory Smell and Tracking Scent plus +1 w/Smell Per. I’m going to allow this to spot an “invisible” character by making his Smell PER.

 

3 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

And accept that all players given a certain number of points will make equally cost-effective and equally effective characters.

 

I’ve ran across a Star Wars D6 GM and Forum moderator that thinks along this line. If all the players start out with 18D (the fame cost structure is in dice) then they should be equal. Well btb certain species, like Gamorreans for example, can do a 1d = 2d in certain skills. Granted that is a one time bonus but still. 

[Ninja-Bear]

The other reason I’ve been looking into 3rd ed is to play Super Agents. I bought that book years ago I was always wanted to update that to 5th. And well here we are. The thing is I noticed that with bigger groups, Heroic level is easier to run and corral. So I plan to have a one shot ready with Super Agents and keep it on Third because Third is less complex than later editions. Or another Idea is that the Super Agents are Low-Powered Super Agents. I want the characters to be easier to he managed by the players and the GM.

[Ninja-Bear]

Oh, another thought about Min-Maxing, if that’s your thing and your group likes it, then there is nothing wrong with it. 
 

And a good thing of Rules Lawyers and Min-Maxers are that they can find the flaws in the system. Game Designers are human so chances are someone else can find that flaw or loophole in the rule.  Once you find it though that is where a boundary should be set to keep to the spirit of the rules.  

[Duke Bushido]

36 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

The other reason I’ve been looking into 3rd ed is to play Super Agents.

 

 

The best thing I did with Super Agents was to take the map and scenario from the old Judge's Guild (boo!  Hiss!   Seriously: racism is wrong, period!) v and V adventure "three kilometer island" and change the parametes of the adventure a bit.  Ultimately, using the suggestions from,Super Agents, I tuned it into a tactical wargamer of five villains versus 18 agents (lots of playtesting to get the balance right.

 

Villains victory conditions were siezing the radioactives, with extra points for all villains escaping and for removing individual agents from combat.

 

Agent conditions were defending the radioactives, with bonuses for no civilain casualilties, capture of individual villains, and capture of the escape vehicle.

 

If there is no clear Victor, the villains are routed in sixty turns, and escape: game is a draw.

 

 

About two hours of playtime for players who went full-bore frontal assault (which creates heavy casualties for agents, with agents winning one out of five games), four to four-and-a-half hours for a pair  strategists, with fifty/fifty win/loss ratio.

 

Most games featured a combination of the two- strategize to get your super or your 3-man team into advantageous position then charge.  Also a 50/50 ratio.

 

Anyway, I was pretty happy about it (though I had to rename it "Kilowatt Island," just because.

 

Started doing a formal recreation of the adventure, conisdered approaching JG about either then selling it or lerrinf me distribute it for free, but then the racism scandal came to light, and I lost interest (actually, it was Jason who told me it was going on (it was literally "happening right now" when I was talking to him about it), and I totally lost interest in doing anything to boost their brand, even if it was for HERO fans.

 

 

 

36 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Third is less complex than later editions.

 

One of the more common pieces of advice I offer when the "how do I teach /introduce HERO" queation arrises is to start with an older edition- not just for the decreased complexity, but also because the "dials" are already adjusted.

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Oh, another thought about Min-Maxing, if that’s your thing and your group likes it, then there is nothing wrong with it. 

 

Sorry; I may not have been as clear as I intended (the computer no longer recognizes the board, so I am condemned to visit here using the phone, and touchscreens are such torture to me that I skip a lot of details just to get done.  Ha!)

 

I was not complaining about min-maxing.  For the record, it is not my thing- I do a little, like anyone, but I don't delve as deep as I could.

 

My point was that in a player group, some players will be better at it than will others.  Thus, two hundred points spent by two random Players have two different limits on their purchasing power: one Player will likely get a good bit more for his money than will the guy who do3snt clip coupons.  In short, one of the reasons I don't care if the powers are exactly "equally coated" is because the purchasing points aren't immutably and precisely  valued beyond "one point equals one point."  For one Player, 5 points equals one die of Energy Blast.  For another, five points equals one die of Killing Attack.

 

That was where I was going with that.

 

Sorry I wasn't more clear.

 

[Ninja-Bear]

@Duke Bushido, about min-maxing, I didn’t think you were looking down on it. I was pointing out to the forum that I wasn’t looking down on it.  So the comment was all about me and not you. 😁 And my buddy who introduced me to Hero, I joke that we could give him 100 pt less and he’d still be more effective than the rest of us. 😁

[Cygnia]

[Ninja-Bear]

The age old question “what is a viable character?”  This question is definitely only answered by each player/group. 

[Ninja-Bear]

Oh and I kept forgetting to mention that I ran across a blogger who in his opinion listed the top five Super hero RPGs. He mentions Champions but  what I found interesting that for him where it started to go south was when the advice from Goodman Institute was published. Especially the part where players were encouraged to buy at least 1” of extra Running just to make a half move of 4” instead of 3” - no matter the character concept.  

[Asperion]

20 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Ouch, tough to come up with a backstory without context.

 

I have always believed that the gm should always start character generation (especially session zero) with the campaign background.  This allows the players to work together and create characters that only require minor tweaks. It works against the wild characters (such as putting Flash into a dnd game). Most likely the gm in the above case came from some system where all the prelim work was done by "pthers" and and assumed that all games work the same way. 

[Old Man]

17 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Oh and I kept forgetting to mention that I ran across a blogger who in his opinion listed the top five Super hero RPGs. He mentions Champions but  what I found interesting that for him where it started to go south was when the advice from Goodman Institute was published. Especially the part where players were encouraged to buy at least 1” of extra Running just to make a half move of 4” instead of 3” - no matter the character concept.  

 

I'm pretty certain that literally every Hero character I have ever made did the extra 1" of running.  Same goes for a couple inches of Swimming, just for drownproofing.

[Ninja-Bear]

6 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

I'm pretty certain that literally every Hero character I have ever made did the extra 1" of running.  Same goes for a couple inches of Swimming, just for drownproofing.

And that’s not a bad thing per se. I think it really is a flavor thing.  I really do believe that there is a sliding scale (or maybe someone gas a better analogy) between Concept and Meta gaming. As you well know Normals in a Supers game (as in what the book in later editions define as Maxima)  is different than “Normals” as a typical PC.  I’ve built   Heroes based on Maxima and well by concept they’re fine but as playable characters? Not so much.  At least to me.

[Cygnia]

[Ninja-Bear]

I ran Warboar last night against 2 Viper agents. Just for the exercise I allowed viper to go first. So if I’m reading Flash correctly when warboar got flashed he is at CV 0? Ouch! I did allow Warboar to make a Smell Per Roll just to find that agent. What really hurt  was the second agent hit with a 2D6 RKA and rolled 10 Body. Warboar has a modest 3 DEF armor. 

[tkdguy]

Here are some resources for the campaign.

 

 

[tkdguy]

With the holidays just around the corner, perhaps it's time to bring out this little monster? Or not.