Should FH Characters Pay for Equipment.

[Ninja-Bear]

13 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

I understand what you are saying; I do.

 

However, you are still stuck in that mindset:

 

 

I don't wish to in any way appear as offensive when I say this. But doe this particular mini-conversation, I would take it as a personal favor of we just avoided any discussion of HERO's "Martial Arts System."  I have a grindstone with me, obviously, but I did not bring that particular axe with me this time.

 

 

 

Why do you feel it is mandatory that spells cost points or be expensive?  That is the D and D prejudice showing through.

 

If I have a computer programming skill, I have a chance to use any computer I encounter.

 

What, anywhere in the HERO System Rules stops me from building a universe where the only rhing differentiating magic users from anyone else is five points of "manipulate magic" skill, allowing them the chance to use any naturslly-occuring source of magic or magic item?

 

What, specifically, says I can't do that? 

 

What says magic has to work _any_ particular way, or that magic can't just be a pool of points that I buy from which I can build whatever spell I want?

 

Or maybe all magic in this world comes from spell books and nowhere else, and only those who can read can wield magic?  Or perhaps spells are one point each, limited only by the endurance of the caster, or a special Endurance pool--

 

Or, again, only those with "use magic" skill for dive points, etc. If that is how your world works,  then magic weapons are just normal weapons unless wielded by a magician. (Borrwed that feom a mini campaign I ran for my son's friends:  all magic comes,from music; only skilled musicians can wield it-- they are in the school band, obviously.)

 

If you have decided that magic must cost xharacter points, that is not the rules; that is _you_.  If you have decided that magic spells are bought individually and are super-HERO expensive, that is also _not_ the rules; that is _you_.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps because D&D is so pervasive that’s it is showing up in Hero.  Because standard Fantasy Hero has this trope of magic users paying for points but “normals” don’t pay for equipment. But is that any different than in a Pulp game where it’s suggested that normal equipment cost money but say an Ice Ray gun should cost character points? Should a ninja pay for that super special sword or maneuver? Or should he get it for “free”?  As far as I can tell ever since Hero expanded out into genres not SuperHeroic has here has been this gray area of what a character should pay and if so where from. So long story short Duke just because you don’t like D&D, you shouldn’t look at a question with prejudiced eyes. 

[LoneWolf]

A spell casters real advantage is the ability to use non-standard attacks.  The 2d6 HKA of a warrior always goes against resistant PD and in most cases has no advantage.  With the right weapon you might get AP or a +1 Stun multiple, but that is about it.  The weapon also has a STR MIN so you need near a 20 STR just to use it.  

 

Take a wizard with the ability to create a sword made of flame.   He buys it as a 1d6 HKA.  The spell has the following limitations OAF expendable easily replaced (Small piece of flint), requires a skill roll, incantations, gestures.   The sword goes against ED instead of PD and cost 5 points.  If the wizard has a 15 STR it does 2d6 damage.  Adding the advantage AP increases the cost to 6 and means I need a 17 STR to get it to 2d6.   My wizard also has a STR spell that gives him +7 STR for 2 points.   

 

Compare this to a warrior using a Greatsword.  The warrior needs 17 STR to use the Greatsword which costs 7 points.  He also needs WF with blades for 1 point.  He gets the Greatsword for no points and can do 2d6 damage targeting PD.  Both characters spent 8 points and have the same STR score.   The wizards attack targets ED instead of PD and gets to cut the ED in half unless the target has hardened defenses.  The warrior is visibly armed and draws attention for being dangerous.   The wizard is carrying some flint and steel (the expendable focus for the STR spell) to light fires.  

The wizard is coming out ahead in spite of the fact he has to pay for his spells.  The cost of the magic skill and booting it up high enough will be an additional cost for the wizard, but that investment gets him so much versatility and power it is well worth the points.        

 

Looking at it further the warrior is already near the normal maximum for STR where the wizard can still buy 10 more points.  This makes it easier for the wizard to increase his damage.  The wizard can also simply pay the points to increase the damage of the spells.  for an additional 10 points I can increase the damage on the spell to 2d6 and the STR to +20 to boost the damage to 4d6 AP HKA.  For the warrior to boost the damage he needs skill levels, martial maneuvers or talents.   Weapon Mastery for a very limited group costs 12 points to add +1d6, it costs 18 points to get 6 skill levels for a second dice.  At this point the wizard has spent less than half the points for a better attack.   The skill levels do give the warrior more versatility, but the wizard has 18 points unspent so can easily purchase 6 skill levels and now has better damage.  

 

The idea the wizard is at a disadvantage because he has to purchase his spells is an illusion.  In reality he will often have the advantage of having way more versatility.  This is not even factoring in the fact the wizard has a huge advantage out of combat.     
 

[GDShore]

Sorry Ninja-Bear, I agree with the Duke. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

Take a wizard with the ability to create a sword made of flame.   He buys it as a 1d6 HKA.  The spell has the following limitations OAF expendable easily replaced (Small piece of flint), requires a skill roll, incantations, gestures.   The sword goes against ED instead of PD and cost 5 points.  If the wizard has a 15 STR it does 2d6 damage.  Adding the advantage AP increases the cost to 6 and means I need a 17 STR to get it to 2d6.   My wizard also has a STR spell that gives him +7 STR for 2 points.   

 

This comes down to GM oversight and care with magic.  A warrior with 23 STR and martial arts and skill levels can push over 4d6 KA, and he doesn't have to cast a spell to summon a sword.  A good GM takes care that both don't get too carried away with stacking damage and how things are built.  For example, the flaming sword; why would STR make it do more damage?  You build that spell with RKA no range, or HKA, STR does not add.

[Chris Goodwin]

17 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Why do you feel it is mandatory that spells cost points or be expensive?  That is the D and D prejudice showing through.

 

If I have a computer programming skill, I have a chance to use any computer I encounter.

 

What, anywhere in the HERO System Rules stops me from building a universe where the only rhing differentiating magic users from anyone else is five points of "manipulate magic" skill, allowing them the chance to use any naturslly-occuring source of magic or magic item?

 

What, specifically, says I can't do that? 

 

Nothing says you can't, and in fact there are "worked example" magic systems in Fantasy Hero for 6e that do these things.  Including "Magic Familiarity" skills that treat spells the same as weapons that warrior-types can acquire.

 

Barring a GM using a magic system like those, though, the default Hero System assumptions say that if you want anything extraordinary, like specialized (for which read "magical") weapons, armor, spells, special abilities, etc., you would pay the points. 

 

Effectively, paying a point for Weapon Familiarity: Blades lets you carry around a blade without having to pay points for it.  Treat it as a Perk, if you like, the same way a GM might charge a 1-point Perk in a Champions game to allow a character to carry around a cell phone;  they can both be taken away or destroyed in play and have to be re-acquired with money to replace. 

[LoneWolf]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

This comes down to GM oversight and care with magic.  A warrior with 23 STR and martial arts and skill levels can push over 4d6 KA, and he doesn't have to cast a spell to summon a sword.  A good GM takes care that both don't get too carried away with stacking damage and how things are built.  For example, the flaming sword; why would STR make it do more damage?  You build that spell with RKA no range, or HKA, STR does not add.

 

You are kind of missing the whole point of my post.  It is quite easy for the warrior with martial arts, talents and skill levels to boost their damage.  But doing so cost points that the wizard does not have to spend.  In the end both characters will have probably spent similar amount of point to achieve similar results.   That was the point of my post.   The warrior does not have to cast a spell but is operating under other constraints. Both of the examples I used are not anything special and should not cause any problems for the GM.  I could change the special effect of the sword to a diamond blade and have it go against PD and the argument would still be valid. 

 

The fact that the wizard was able to match the warrior while spending fewer points shows the idea that a warrior has the advantage because the wizard has to spend points for his spells is false.  If anything, the warrior is the one who is at a disadvantage.  In my opinion that is why talents were added.  The warrior's ability to buy things like weapon master, deadly blow and combat luck are to compensate for the fact the wizard has an advantage.   
 

Edited November 18, 2023 by LoneWolf

[Christopher R Taylor]

Sure, and that's why I put even more talents into the game to make things have greater parity in terms of build cost, but I also made spells cost money not points, because the ability to USE spells costs the points -- just like with other characters.

 

However its not exactly accurate to say the wizard matches the warrior with one spell.  A wizard has to also have spells to protect himself (armor purchased with money), and cover all the other wizardy stuff expected and desired by them.  So its not just a single ability comparison. Buying spells directly with points means a 100 point expenditure to be more than an energy projector with a pointy hat.

[LoneWolf]

There is no reason a wizard cannot wear armor, this is not D&D where a wizard cannot cast spells in armor.   A GM could setup a house rule saying a wizard cannot cast in armor, but then the problem is GM created, instead of being due to getting equipment without paying points for it.  Also there is nothing in the rules that DEF from armor cannot stack with those of a spell.   That means the wizard is likely to have better defenses than the warrior.  Even if the GM does not allow stacking a wizard could purchase his armor spell as damage negation.   

 

If you make spells cost money instead of points, do you make talents also cost money instead of points?  In reality purchasing spells and purchasing talents are pretty much the same thing.  You pay points for the ability to do something extraordinary that others cannot.  

 

As long as you have enough talents and skills available for non-casters to purchase there is no imbalance.   
 

[Ockham's Spoon]

On 11/17/2023 at 7:36 PM, Duke Bushido said:

I understand what you are saying; I do.

 

However, you are still stuck in that mindset:

 

 

I don't wish to in any way appear as offensive when I say this. But doe this particular mini-conversation, I would take it as a personal favor of we just avoided any discussion of HERO's "Martial Arts System."  I have a grindstone with me, obviously, but I did not bring that particular axe with me this time.

 

 

 

Why do you feel it is mandatory that spells cost points or be expensive?  That is the D and D prejudice showing through.

 

If I have a computer programming skill, I have a chance to use any computer I encounter.

 

What, anywhere in the HERO System Rules stops me from building a universe where the only rhing differentiating magic users from anyone else is five points of "manipulate magic" skill, allowing them the chance to use any naturslly-occuring source of magic or magic item?

 

What, specifically, says I can't do that? 

 

What says magic has to work _any_ particular way, or that magic can't just be a pool of points that I buy from which I can build whatever spell I want?

 

Or maybe all magic in this world comes from spell books and nowhere else, and only those who can read can wield magic?  Or perhaps spells are one point each, limited only by the endurance of the caster, or a special Endurance pool--

 

Or, again, only those with "use magic" skill for dive points, etc. If that is how your world works,  then magic weapons are just normal weapons unless wielded by a magician. (Borrwed that feom a mini campaign I ran for my son's friends:  all magic comes,from music; only skilled musicians can wield it-- they are in the school band, obviously.)

 

If you have decided that magic must cost xharacter points, that is not the rules; that is _you_.  If you have decided that magic spells are bought individually and are super-HERO expensive, that is also _not_ the rules; that is _you_.

 

 

 

 

 

I never liked the way D&D tried to balance spell-casters and warriors, so on that count I whole-heartedly agree with you.  One of the strengths of the Hero system is that building powers with points helps ensure balance in the game.  If some characters buy their 'powers' with points and others buy them with money, you potentially lose some of that balance.  How much is going to depend on how you set up your magic system and what characters are allowed to do with magic. 

 

The one downside to making magic depend only on a 5 point skill is that it lowers the barrier to spell-casting to the point that everyone would be doing it (or at least all the PCs).  If that is what you want, go for it.  But consider how radically it would change a fantasy world if magic is a run-of-the-mill ability that almost everyone has.  Yes, you can make it rare by saying only people with the mark of the dragon or something can wield magic, but that is a consideration the GM is going to have to take into account when building the world.

 

On 11/17/2023 at 7:36 PM, Duke Bushido said:

I understand what you are saying; I do.

 

However, you are still stuck in that mindset:

 

 

I don't wish to in any way appear as offensive when I say this. But doe this particular mini-conversation, I would take it as a personal favor of we just avoided any discussion of HERO's "Martial Arts System."  I have a grindstone with me, obviously, but I did not bring that particular axe with me this time.

 

 

 

Why do you feel it is mandatory that spells cost points or be expensive?  That is the D and D prejudice showing through.

 

If I have a computer programming skill, I have a chance to use any computer I encounter.

 

What, anywhere in the HERO System Rules stops me from building a universe where the only rhing differentiating magic users from anyone else is five points of "manipulate magic" skill, allowing them the chance to use any naturslly-occuring source of magic or magic item?

 

What, specifically, says I can't do that? 

 

What says magic has to work _any_ particular way, or that magic can't just be a pool of points that I buy from which I can build whatever spell I want?

 

Or maybe all magic in this world comes from spell books and nowhere else, and only those who can read can wield magic?  Or perhaps spells are one point each, limited only by the endurance of the caster, or a special Endurance pool--

 

Or, again, only those with "use magic" skill for dive points, etc. If that is how your world works,  then magic weapons are just normal weapons unless wielded by a magician. (Borrwed that feom a mini campaign I ran for my son's friends:  all magic comes,from music; only skilled musicians can wield it-- they are in the school band, obviously.)

 

If you have decided that magic must cost xharacter points, that is not the rules; that is _you_.  If you have decided that magic spells are bought individually and are super-HERO expensive, that is also _not_ the rules; that is _you_.

 

 

 

 

 

I never liked the way D&D tried to balance spell-casters and warriors, so on that count I whole-heartedly agree with you.  One of the strengths of the Hero system is that building powers with points helps ensure balance in the game.  If some characters buy their 'powers' with points and others buy them with money, you potentially lose some of that balance.  How much is going to depend on how you set up your magic system and what characters are allowed to do with magic. 

 

The one downside to making magic depend only on a 5 point skill is that it lowers the barrier to spell-casting to the point that everyone would be doing it (or at least all the PCs).  If that is what you want, go for it.  But consider how radically it would change a fantasy world if magic is a run-of-the-mill ability that almost everyone has.  Yes, you can make it rare by saying only people with the mark of the dragon or something can wield magic, but that is a consideration the GM is going to have to take into account when building the world.

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

If you make spells cost money instead of points, do you make talents also cost money instead of points?

 

No, I make the ability to cast different schools of magic at different power levels cost points, as talents.  I think of the spells a spell caster uses as being like the weapons and armor a non spellcaster uses.  You pay for the ability to use them, and then buy the tools (or learn them, discover them, are given them, etc)

Edited November 19, 2023 by Christopher R Taylor

[Duke Bushido]

On 11/17/2023 at 8:19 PM, Gauntlet said:

 

I

 

My apologies, folks!  I had no intention to abandon the discussion, but I confess: after spending 40 minutes working out a reply on thia accursed touch screen, some glitch or other popped a message- "an error has occurred" then the site reloaded and poof!  It was all gone.

 

I kinda sorta rage quit and went to bed.

 

Anyway, onward!

 

 

 

 

 

On 11/17/2023 at 8:19 PM, Gauntlet said:

I never said that they have to be expensive

 

You are quite right, Sir; you did not.  I made an assumption based on your couching of your comments.  Remembering that you were commenting about the difficulty a magic-wielding character would have as buying spells would handicap his ability to buy things that would stack him equally against other types of characters, etc--  I believe that you can see why I might have drawn that conclusion.

 

Still, mea culpa; ego paenitet in plena: tu es omnino excusari.

 

Okay, I wanted "exonerated," but I haven't practiced Latin in a few decades now. If anyone know the proper word, I will edit it in where "excused" is serving as a placeholder.

 

But, as the conversation has been fun so far, let's get back to it!

 

 

 

On 11/17/2023 at 8:19 PM, Gauntlet said:

 

They may not cost a lot of points but they do cost something.

 

Agreed.  But if one special sort of expenditure is unusually costly, then there may be a genuine handicap: if someone designs their world so that spells are-  say ten points each, or twenty points each, or- well, as you see: the more expensive spells are- or even the more individualized and unique they are, which would require a larger number of spells....  Well, obviously, a guy swinging a garden rake is going to come out well ahead in cost and possibly even utility.

 

But if all expenditures are more or less equal, then there isn't really any handicap or disadvantage: it is no more different than choosing to spend points on CON instead of CV, or END instead of REC, of Forensics instead of Security Systems: both characters had equal access, made rhe same number of decisions, spent roughly the same amount of points, and have roughly the same amount of points left.  Nothing lopsided or unfair in that.

 

 

On 11/17/2023 at 8:19 PM, Gauntlet said:

If they don't cost points then why would a fighter have to pay points for weapon familiarities,

 

He doesn't

 

 

On 11/17/2023 at 8:19 PM, Gauntlet said:

or combat skill levels,

 

Or that

 

 

On 11/17/2023 at 8:19 PM, Gauntlet said:

or martial arts.

 

And sweet Deity on a Stick, does he not have to do that.

 

As before, to continue this discussion and keep it on topic, I would prefer to avoid anything related to Martial Arts; that really does require an entirely different and very involved conversation just to establish a baseline from which to start.

 

Staying to this conversation, though, every single one of these "must haves" is entirely up to the GM when he designs the world: what is absolutely necessary, etc, and not so much the law of the rules.  In fact, Skill Levels can do everything all of these "must haves" do, and even skill levels are not mandatory.  An excellent idea, to be sure, but not mandatory.  The GM decides if he will require them for whatever reasons (honestly, in heroic-level games, I have always considered a lot of "mandatory" familiarise and the like to be simple point sucks, which-  well, handicaps anyone required to buy them if there are other equally-valid character concepts who are not required to buy these things, then yeah; that guy is getting a bit shafted.

 

Or, circling back around:  agreed. 

 

 

 

On 11/17/2023 at 8:19 PM, Gauntlet said:

It is just the fact that if you spend point in one place you do not have the points to spend them somewhere else. Even if you only spend 10 points for spells, those 10 points are not usable in other places. That is my only point.

 

Oops-  I jumped the gun with the previous reply.  You are correct: spend points on one thing, you sont have them to spend gain elsewhere.  That is the nature of points-buy systems: enforced uniqueness because most folks will have a favorite thing for their concept that will take points from their available total, and rather than copy identically an effective build, they spend the rest of the build compensating for whatever hit they took getting their main item or items.  But the size of the hit, again, is not a requirement laid out in the rules; it is laid out by the GM for each and every game.

 

 

On 11/17/2023 at 8:19 PM, Gauntlet said:

 

The big difference is that someone who is direct in what they can do is very good at what they do, but if in a situation where those skills are not useful they can do almost nothing, while a multi-abilities character can do many things but on the individual items he will not be as good as the concentrated one.

 

Yes, but again: this is a function of character generation and concept.  If someone wants to build Batman, then yes; short of writer fiat, he is going to be absolutely useless in a light-speed running gun battle between Superman and I am really going to need some help coming up with a name of some Superman-level villain, but you get the point.

 

But if your game euns through a spot of skill-heavy action, Batman is _definitely_ your guy as opposed to-- well, I have no idea again.  Does Green Lantern have skills?  The movie suggested no, but I really have no idea.

 

Even then, though-  at the risk of of doing the broken record thing, this isn't a rules-created situation: rhw player decided he wanted a skills-heavy or skills-light character, the GM approves it, then ran a game inappropriate for the character.

 

There are a lot of places to lay the blame here, but the rules isnt one od them.

 

 

 

On 11/17/2023 at 8:19 PM, Gauntlet said:

 

Like my example before. Should you have a character who has purchased 50 points in Brick Powers, 50 points in Martial Arts abilities/powers, 50 points in energy blasts, 50 points in mental powers, and 50 points in odd powers, his/her individual power level will not be as good as that character who spent all 250 points on one thing such as energy blasts, so in a situation where ranged combat is the order of business, he/she will not be as effective. But then again if you are in a situation where it is very close and mostly HTH combat your full powered energy blast character may not be as effective as your multi-powered character who definitely has HTH options.

 

 

Well I still agree: of you spend points haphazardly, you get odd results.

 

But if you spend the points neesed to take your longbow damage to 6d6 RKA , and a magician has spent roughly  the same amount to create a call-down-the-lighting spell that does 6d6 RKA, what is the problem?

 

 

 

 

However, this entire thing is something of a sidetrack; I don't know that we ever visited tour original question:

 

 

On 11/15/2023 at 7:38 PM, Gauntlet said:

Was wondering if people think it might be a good idea to have Fantasy Hero characters pay points for their equipment.

 

For what it ia worth, I am okay with it.  For several years, it qas the only way we played it: we were using Champions rules- first 1e, then 2e- long before there was a Fantasy HERO; Champions was bereft any sort of money system- it didn't even hint at costs for the precioua few weapons it statted out.  We totally got the "your Killing Attack could be a sword" and 'your Force Field could be magic" aspect though, and you bought those with points, so....  

 

 

On 11/15/2023 at 7:38 PM, Gauntlet said:

 

It can be said that it is rather hard to determine the strength of FH characters if their equipment is free. Or is there any other way to better determine the strength of your characters?

 

 

Compare Defenses to Defenses; Offenses to Offenses; survivability (story type; not combat type).  Civilian effectiveness, etc.

 

Not the points spent on them; not the the active points, but the numbers that matter in the game: damage done; damage resisted; ability to actually thrive in the game world, and appropriateness for any long-term plans laid out for the campaign.

 

Those are the metrics I use  when I evaluate characters for approval.

 

 

[Scott Ruggels]

And remember, Fantasy Heto is not D&D. 
 

I get a little depressed, every time some young player tries to cobble together a 3.5 or 5e TSR build. It never works or is never an efficient use of points. 

[Hugh Neilson]

I always wonder why someone would use one system to try to emulate another. Nothing will emulate a D&D game like playing D&D, so if that is the desired play experience, play D&D.

 

I recently read a Pathfinder scenario with some Lovecraftian influence.  It tried to bolt on a sanity mechanic (noted as optional). Given what the characters (L9 at the start of this section of an AP) should already have witnessed, their mental health should already have taken a hit.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I understand taking inspiration or ideas from another game (say, the sanity stuff from Call of Cthulhu or spells like Magic Missile in D&D), but just whole cloth remaking the game is pointless.

[steriaca]

On 11/15/2023 at 6:38 PM, Gauntlet said:

Was wondering if people think it might be a good idea to have Fantasy Hero characters pay points for their equipment. It can be said that it is rather hard to determine the strength of FH characters if their equipment is free. Or is there any other way to better determine the strength of your characters?

It depends on various factors. If the equipment is culturally advanced; magical in some way, or of primo quality, then of course the character should pay points for it. They are not going to find replacements quite easily after all.

 

But if it is just a sword, then don't make them pay for it by anything but gold pieces.

[Gauntlet]

20 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

And remember, Fantasy Heto is not D&D. 
 

I get a little depressed, every time some young player tries to cobble together a 3.5 or 5e TSR build. It never works or is never an efficient use of points. 

 

I understand what you are referring to. There is an incredibly larger number of choices for an FH character than any D&D based character. But there is nothing wrong with utilizing D&D to create characters, especially for players new to Hero. For new players I receive if they have a D&D character, they would like to use I allow it to be used for the base of the character to allow them better understanding, and then allow them to grow with the huge increase of options that Hero gives them. This way they don't feel so lost as they start with a character they can understand and then have the option to allow him/her to grow without the limitations of class/level based characters.

[LoneWolf]

I tend to agree trying to convert something from another system to Hero creates problems.  Using a character from another system for the concept is probably ok, but not trying to rewrite the character into Hero.  The big problem is that the game systems operate differently, and you will never get everything.  This also occurs when a player wants to play a character from fiction.  Don’t try and play a character from a book or a movie.  You are never going to be able to get a character that does everything the fictional character does.  Instead play a character based on that character.  

[Gauntlet]

12 minutes ago, LoneWolf said:

I tend to agree trying to convert something from another system to Hero creates problems.  Using a character from another system for the concept is probably ok, but not trying to rewrite the character into Hero.  The big problem is that the game systems operate differently, and you will never get everything.  This also occurs when a player wants to play a character from fiction.  Don’t try and play a character from a book or a movie.  You are never going to be able to get a character that does everything the fictional character does.  Instead play a character based on that character.  

 

I was referring to concept wise, not actual ability rules. I normally will have the player tell me what type of character they would like to play: perhaps something like this elven Druid/Ranger (Archer) character that they used to play in a D&D game. I then ask them what the character was capable and create similar attributes to their FH character. I always make sure they understand that FH is a different rules and things work differently, but even a little similarity makes it easier for new players to play. 

[Hugh Neilson]

2 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

 

I was referring to concept wise, not actual ability rules. I normally will have the player tell me what type of character they would like to play: perhaps something like this elven Druid/Ranger (Archer) character that they used to play in a D&D game. I then ask them what the character was capable and create similar attributes to their FH character. I always make sure they understand that FH is a different rules and things work differently, but even a little similarity makes it easier for new players to play. 

 

This works well if you can isolate two things:

 

 - the hooks - what is the core of the character, to the player.   Maybe that's "great at archery and shapeshifts into animals" - spells can go by the wayside.

 

 - the wishes - what does the player wish the character could do, but D&D does not facilitate it (or reserves it for a much higher level).  Maybe "I'd rather she was a Dwarf, but their stats are all wrong" or "I wish she could take on hybrid animal forms".  HELLO HERO!

[Duke Bushido]

14 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

" or "I wish she could take on hybrid animal forms". 

 

 

Did anyone else briefly see a wolf-asaurus?  Or a croco-stimpy?

 

No?  Just me?

 

Really?

 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Duke Bushido

[Scott Ruggels]

8 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

 

Did anyone else briefly see a wolf-asaurus?  Or a crock-stimpy?

 

No?  Just me?

 

Really?

 

 

Happy happy, Joy joy!

[Chris Goodwin]

10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

 

Did anyone else briefly see a wolf-asaurus?  Or a croco-stimpy?

 

No?  Just me?

 

Really?

 

Or maybe some sort of, I dunno, bear-owl hybrid...

 

Nah, no one would ever go for it.

[dmjalund]

6 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

Or maybe some sort of, I dunno, bear-owl hybrid...

 

Nah, no one would ever go for it.

an owl with the head of a bear? ridiculous!

[Gauntlet]

Question, how in the hell did someone come up with an Owlbear??? I know it's from D&D but just wondering what the purpose of it would be.

[Duke Bushido]

Well obviously it's grizzly,bear that you cant sneak up on like you usually would....