Colossus on 400 points

[danbuter]

Just curious if anyone's done an X-Men write-up. I would like to do a character similar to Colossus, using 250 and 150 disads. Not sure if it's possible. Thanks!

[Bengal]

Actually, Colossus is fairly simple and straightforward. I bet you could write him up on 250 or 300 and not have to cut any corners. Which is not to say he's feeble- just fairly simple.

[Ghost Archer]

I haven't gotten around to updating to FREd but here is my take on Colossus.

 

In case you are interested, though some say my versions are a bit 'too high powered' the Wild Hunt presents The Uncanny X-Men

[levi]

Great Sight Ghost Archer!

 

Those versions are a bit overpowered for most campaigns I think. Danbuter, what are the limits in the campaign you wanna play Colossus in? Most 400 point campaigns are going to have limits in this range: 70 AP, 35 DEF, 10 CV. Of course those things are up to your GM to decide upon.

[Allandrel]

I would figure Colossus for Multiform.

 

Patrick J McGraw

[Jhamin]

Originally posted by Allandrel

I would figure Colossus for Multiform.

 

Patrick J McGraw

 

Interesting, I always thought of Colossus as the poster boy for buying powers and stats "Only in Hero ID". He keeps all the same skills, psych limits, and even his physical appearence.

 

I mean, what does he lose by "powering up"?

[Ghost Archer]

Originally posted by Jhamin

Interesting, I always thought of Colossus as the poster boy for buying powers and stats "Only in Hero ID". He keeps all the same skills, psych limits, and even his physical appearence.

 

I mean, what does he lose by "powering up"?

 

Exactly the way I looked at it. He's not like the Hulk/Bruce Banner. Nothing changes but the physical.

 

Originally posted by Levi

Great Sight Ghost Archer!

 

Those versions are a bit overpowered for most campaigns I think. Danbuter, what are the limits in the campaign you wanna play Colossus in? Most 400 point campaigns are going to have limits in this range: 70 AP, 35 DEF, 10 CV. Of course those things are up to your GM to decide upon.

 

I admit they are high powered. In fact I had to fudge a few things on MOST of the character as none seem to have any real defense except someone like Colossus. But then, my campaign was running at a pretty high point level, still does.

 

And thanks for the complement, Levi.

[Brandi]

Originally posted by Jhamin

Interesting, I always thought of Colossus as the poster boy for buying powers and stats "Only in Hero ID". He keeps all the same skills, psych limits, and even his physical appearence.

 

I mean, what does he lose by "powering up"?

 

Huh, and here I thought he had Density Increase: Visible, maybe with linked increases in PD/ED/STR.

[Enforcer84]

I actually gave him a level of growth OIHID, visible, simply because my old OHTTMU said he went from 6'8'' 250lbs to 7'5'' 500lbs.

[Edsel]

Here is a write-up that we used to use in our Hero / X-men game. The Strength will probably be a little screwy since we used a house rules STR chart that differed from standard Hero System. This is a 375 point version.

 

Colossus Player: NPR Hero

Val Char Cost

78/88 STR 15

20 DEX 30

30 CON 26

12/13 BODY 4

10 INT 0

18 EGO 10

20 PRE 5

16 COM 3

 

24/45 PD 5

24/45 ED 5

4 SPD 0

23 REC 2

60 END -3

87/88 STUN 3

 

6" RUN 0

2" SWIM 0

5 1/2"/7 1/2" LEAP -10

Characteristics Cost: 95

Cost Power END

Living Steel Powers

60 1) Armor (20 PD/20 ED), Hardened (+1/4); OIHID (-1/4)

31 2) Life Support (Immunity All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing) (39 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)

8 3) Density Increase (200 kg mass, +5 STR, +1 PD/ED, -1" KB), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (10 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)

8 4) Growth (+5 STR, +1 BODY, +1 STUN, -1" KB, 198 kg, +0 DCV, +0 PER Rolls to perceive character, 2 m tall, 1 m wide), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (10 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)

4 5) Power Defense (5 points) (5 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)

 

Living Steel Increased Characteristics

42 1) +53 STR (53 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) [Notes: STR Does Not Add To Jump] 5

11 2) +7 CON (14 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)

5 3) +3 EGO (6 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)

4 4) +5 PRE (5 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)

2 5) +3 PD (3 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)

10 6) +13 ED (13 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)

8 7) +1 SPD (10 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)

13 8) +16 STUN (16 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)

2 9) +6 END (3 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)

 

3 Mental Resistance Training: Mental Defense (9 points total) (5 Active Points); Limited Power Not vs. EGO Attacks (-1/2)

 

Powers Cost: 211

Cost Martial Arts Maneuver

4 Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort

2 Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, Strike

3 Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, 15 1/2d6 / 17 1/2d6 +v/5, Target Falls

3 Upper Cut: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, Strike +2d6

Martial Arts Cost: 12

Cost Skill

1 Breakfall 8-

3 Language: English (Russian is native) (completely fluent)

2 Navigation (Air, Land) 8-

3 Paramedics 11-

4 PS: Artist 13-

2 PS: Farmer 11-

3 Survival (Arctic/Subarctic, Temperate/Subtropical, Mountain) 8-

1 Systems Operation 8-

18 TF: Common Motorized Ground Vehicles, Agricultural & Construction Vehicles, Combat Aircraft, Equines, Helicopters, Large Planes, Parachuting, Basic, SCUBA, Skating (iceskating or rollerskating), Skiing (snow), Sleds, Small Motorized Boats, Small Planes, Small Rowed Boats, Snowmobiles, Tracked Military Vehicles, Wheeled Military Vehicles

 

10 +2 with HTH Combat

3 +1 Throwing

4 +2 RMod with Throwing

Skills Cost: 54

Cost Perk

3 Fringe Benefit: Membership: X-Men

Perks Cost: 3 Total Character Cost: 375

Val Disadvantages

10 Psychological Limitation: Loyality to the X-Men (Uncommon, Strong)

15 Psychological Limitation: Code vs. Killing (Common, Strong)

15 Social Limitation: Secret ID: Pietr Rasputian (Frequently, Major)

20 Hunted: Sentinels 11- (Mo Pow, Harshly Punish)

15 Hunted: Magneto 8- (Mo Pow, Harshly Punish)

15 Hunted: Brotherhood of Evil Mutants 8- (Mo Pow, Harshly Punish)

15 Hunted: Hellfire Club 8- (Mo Pow, Harshly Punish) [Notes: All of the hunteds are More Powerful because all are groups whose combined might is greater than Colossus alone, except for Magneto who is obviously more powerful.]

5 Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x STUN EGO Attacks (Uncommon)

Disadvantage Points: 110 Base Points: 200 Experience Required: 65 Total Experience Available: 65 Experience Unspent: 0

 

Attached is the Hero Designer file

[levi]

Very playable version Edsel...I personally wouldn't give Colossus any Martial Arts just because he always seemed like a reluctant combatant...the artist who would rely on his invulnerability and strength to carry him. I do like the levels with throwing however.

[Rune]

You might want to consider giving Colossus some additional Knockback Resistance. The -2" KB from Density Increase and the Growth don't seem to be enough He normally doesn't get pushed around that much. A little bit of Lack of Weakness might also be appropriate.

[Derek Hiemforth]

A lot of this depends on how accurate to the Marvel Universe numbers you want to be. Colossus is supposed to be able to lift about 70 tons. That's "only" a STR of 58 or so in HERO. (Or even 48 if you want to assume that the 70 ton number includes Pushing.)

 

Of course, if you'd rather do a "relativity" setting, where you pick a prominant Marvel hero as "The Strongest", set his STR at some milestone value, and then give other characters STRs in relation to that, then maybe Colossus would rank higher.

 

(FWIW, I would also buy him with Only In Heroic Identity as opposed to Multiform. To me, when the greater form is a proper super-set of the lesser form -- when the greater can do all the same things the lesser can and then some -- that's OiHID. When their abilities or personalities differ, that's Multiform.)

[Chaosliege]

Hero STR vs Marvel STR

 

I've had this conversation with my GM a number of times when trying to convert Marvel or even DC bricks into Hero. If you go by lifting capacity, a character like Colosis is only going to have around a 55-60 STR, putting him between 50 and 100 tons. But if you go by the amount of damage he does, you're easily into the 90s. I think levi had the right idea though, in going with what the active points are in your game. Colosis' punch in Marvel is no more powerfull than Cyclops' eye beem. If Cyclops in your game would only do a 12 die EB, then Colosis should cirtainly not have over a 60 STR. Other than the STR, I didn't see anything wrong with either of the write-ups, and the STR is subjective at best. Go with the APL of the game and you cant go wrong.

[Vex]

Gotta Love the Colossus

 

"A lot of this depends on how accurate to the Marvel Universe numbers you want to be. Colossus is supposed to be able to lift about 70 tons. That's "only" a STR of 58 or so in HERO. (Or even 48 if you want to assume that the 70 ton number includes Pushing.)"

 

Keep in mind that Colossus was almost always listed as being "a growing boy". Meaning that he hadn't reached his full potential. Also, the listed referrenced was probably printed well before Colossus' "radiation accident" where Magneto healed him and greatly increased his strength. When he died his strength was probably close to 100.

 

Also, all X-Men get martial arts and mental defenses as they are trained in that from day one.

[Killer Shrike]

One other thing, Marvel STR is a) usually listed inaccurately and is press strength, as in lift above ones head.

 

HERO System STR is dead lift STR, as in "get off the ground and stagger a few feet"

 

So, adding 5 points to the dead lift HERO System STR (doubling dead lift lifting capacity) should handle the discrepancy between the two (as the character should be able to easily press half of what they can dead lift).

[Killer Shrike]

For what its worth I would do the big "C" as OIHID too.

 

The DI Visible has merit, but a lot of his other powers work while "dense" too, so they would all need to be linked to the DI Visible, which is a constant power, and thus would result in a -1/4 link. The OIHID is cleaner IMO and the points work out basically the same except that DI Visible gets OIHID in one version and doesnt in another.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Enforcer84

I actually gave him a level of growth OIHID, visible, simply because my old OHTTMU said he went from 6'8'' 250lbs to 7'5'' 500lbs.

This is probably covered by a level of Density Increase, as the height difference isnt enough to require growth. Density Increase can be used for a general "Mass Increase" effect and growing 6 inches along with gaining 250 pounds is a reasonable SFX of DI IMO. (YMMV of course)

[Bengal]

You know what bugs me? DC heroes all have these insane stats, like 25 APs of Strength (for Superman)... which translates into 125 STR for Champs. Marvel's heavy hitters only get up into the 60-65 range, and that is the Hulk at rest (before he starts getting madder and madder). It's hard to stat them both out without fudging one seet of numbers or the other.

 

For instance, Batman, with 12 APs of Intelligence, is one thousand times smarter than an average person. Figuring 5 points doubles INT like it does STR, that's an INT of 59.

 

Reed Richards probably doesn't top 30.

 

 

 

Ah well.

[Killer Shrike]

INT doesnt actually equal IQ however. There are several animals with INT scores above human average for example.

 

It mostly has to do perceptiveness.

 

To model a really intelligent character INT helps because it raises all INT based skills and in a NCM campaign its cheaper to buy 5 points of INT and have PER go up in conjunction with INT based skills than it is to buy +1 PER for 3 points and +1 w/ INT Based Skills for 5 points until NCM is reached.

 

However, having a boatload of INT based skills and maybe a couple of Overall Levels is a much more comprehensive way to show "intelligence".

 

So Bats would prolly have around a 20 INT assuming he has NCM maybe 30 if it makes him "feel" more smart, a truckload of skills, several PER levels, a really high Deduction score, and a few OLs (particularly since he is also fighty). Viola. He comes off like a fricking genius. Especially compared to Superdope ("Uh...what? I have Superspeed? Why do I always forget that? Der.....").

[Metaphysician]

Marvel's *actual* strength levels are more reasonable. Just ignore the whole "class system," except for determining relative strength.

[Jhamin]

I think what it really comes down to is the "campaign limits" of the various comic universes. Some people seem to operate on the assumption that a super is a super, but in fact what you need to be powerful depends alot on what limits your GM has set.

 

If you are in a world where 10d6 is a standard attack, your 12d6 eyebeams look pretty good. In a world where 14d6 is average, you need 16d6 (or 30 AP more) to stand out.

 

Marvel and DC do not use the same "campaign limits". A really strong charcter in Marvel doesn't need to buy his STR up as high to stand out as he would in DC. This doesn't mean he isn't as cool, it just means that the goalpost in in a different place. Heck, it isn't even consistant across comics. What it takes to be really strong in a Batman comic doesn't even get you noticed in a Superman book.

 

IMHO the "campaign limits" that have evolved for Champions are internally consistant, but that doens't mean they translate well into other "campaigns". A really good conversion looks a the pecking order of the world they come from and compares it the pecking order of the champions universe.

If you assume that a Champions heavy hitter is the equal to a heavy hitter in another universe, then if Grond fought the Hulk one of them would have to be converted so they were both playing by the same character build rules.

The strongest guys in Champions hover around 90-100 Str (Grond, Ripper, Gargantua). The Marvel "Heavy Hitters" like Hulk and Juggernaught ought to be in this range.

"Middleweight" bricks in the Champs universe are guys like Iron Clad, Blackstar, and Ogre. They have Str from 60-70, This means that as a middle weight Marvel brick Colossus should also have a "middle weight" brick Str of around 60-70. (the heroic Rusky can trade blows with Thing, but gets clobbered by Gladiator of the Imperial Guard)

This leaves people like Iron Man and Rogue who are way strong but who don't trade punches with the big boys (and tend to rely on other powers) to have a Str of around 40-50, which tracks well with the "lesser bricks" like Defender.

 

These things can apply to other stats as well, for example you might convert Reed Richards and Tony Stark by comparing them to the "uber brains" of the Champions universe and figuring out what it takes to stand out for your brain power.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Jhamin

I think what it really comes down to is the "campaign limits" of the various comic universes. Some people seem to operate on the assumption that a super is a super, but in fact what you need to be powerful depends alot on what limits your GM has set.

 

If you are in a world where 10d6 is a standard attack, your 12d6 eyebeams look pretty good. In a world where 14d6 is average, you need 16d6 (or 30 AP more) to stand out.

 

Marvel and DC do not use the same "campaign limits". A really strong charcter in Marvel doesn't need to buy his STR up as high to stand out as he would in DC. This doesn't mean he isn't as cool, it just means that the goalpost in in a different place. Heck, it isn't even consistant across comics. What it takes to be really strong in a Batman comic doesn't even get you noticed in a Superman book.

 

IMHO the "campaign limits" that have evolved for Champions are internally consistant, but that doens't mean they translate well into other "campaigns". A really good conversion looks a the pecking order of the world they come from and compares it the pecking order of the champions universe.

If you assume that a Champions heavy hitter is the equal to a heavy hitter in another universe, then if Grond fought the Hulk one of them would have to be converted so they were both playing by the same character build rules.

The strongest guys in Champions hover around 90-100 Str (Grond, Ripper, Gargantua). The Marvel "Heavy Hitters" like Hulk and Juggernaught ought to be in this range.

"Middleweight" bricks in the Champs universe are guys like Iron Clad, Blackstar, and Ogre. They have Str from 60-70, This means that as a middle weight Marvel brick Colossus should also have a "middle weight" brick Str of around 60-70. (the heroic Rusky can trade blows with Thing, but gets clobbered by Gladiator of the Imperial Guard)

This leaves people like Iron Man and Rogue who are way strong but who don't trade punches with the big boys (and tend to rely on other powers) to have a Str of around 40-50, which tracks well with the "lesser bricks" like Defender.

 

These things can apply to other stats as well, for example you might convert Reed Richards and Tony Stark by comparing them to the "uber brains" of the Champions universe and figuring out what it takes to stand out for your brain power.

 

100% Agreement with all of the above except one thing:

 

When Colossus fought the Gladiator in the Dark Pheonix Saga, he was pre-powerup and still slowed the big mohawk fella down quite a bit. Gladiator IIRC was suprised at how strong the big C really was. Plus on numerous occasions he traded blows with the Juggernaught. So if he's a medium brick, he should be right on the cusp of edging into "major brick land" IMO.

 

Later, after the Marauder incident, he came back during the Fall of the Mutants bigger and stronger, but unable to change forms without more effort and some pain/discomfort IIRC. Later, after I quit collecting, but based upon 2nd hand info, Magneto did some shinanegans and the big C got even stronger.

 

Also, another part of the big C that often gets overlooked was his near-total immunity to Magic, beyond his physical resilience.

[Metaphysician]

I don't think Batman would have NCM at all. He's as much a legendary intelligence character as Defender, maybe more. He's just not primarily tech-focused.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Metaphysician

I don't think Batman would have NCM at all. He's as much a legendary intelligence character as Defender, maybe more. He's just not primarily tech-focused.

Either way, the point still stands that raw INT does not a genius make in the HERO System -- it takes skills skills and more skills, and as a corrolary to that the quandry the person had of converting the Bat's DC int of 12 to the HERO System; my point was that rather than just buying INT up, he should instead buy a lot of skills and make sure that Bats is good at them; as many INT based skills equates to being a "smart" character in the HERO System.