Mike W Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen If you're going back to the 70s or so, I'd say to add Dr. Phibes and Billy Lo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroGM Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen my 2cents and a few nitpicks. Magnum PI was the 80s not the 70s According to the movie My Favorite Martian, Ray Walston went back while Loyd's character stayed. So you do have a current version of Uncle Marty to work with. Could always use Leroy & Sho'Nuff from The Last Dragon. Would add some martial arts into the mix (with Sho'Nuff being the main villians flunky) For a vehicle, you need Herbie, no doubt about it. Ok, so he's a car IF you really want to push things you could do Tony and Tia from Escape to/Return From Witch Mountan (the originals, not the remake). Telepathy and Telekinesis, defently adds the 'extrodinary" part. If you want to add someone with some detective skill toss in Jessica Fletcher. Why not, she's in the same universe as Magnum P.I. As for a vilian, I'd go with Bette Davis from Return from Witch Mountain and David Warner's character from the b-horror movie Waxworks. Literary characters I'd have to sit down and think about. The only ones I can really come up with at the moment is Zelazney's Corwin and Merlin from his Amber novels, but since they're literaly "gods" I think they'd overpower the idea of the League. Oh, and an afterthought just to make it reall weird. Dr. Johnny Fever from WKRP. Ok Ok, dumb choice I know. Was also going to suggest Father Timothy from SOAP (laugh), hey why not, his son was possessed by the devil (and Benson bested Death to save a bunch of school kids on a bus) Ok, I'm quiting, my age is starting to show. D**nit I lied...one more. Pete from Pete's Dragon. Why am I in a Disney frame of mind????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen If you need a chillingly ruthless' date=' cold-blooded brilliant killer, fine: pick a winner who stayed out of jail (and the asylum), and one who had valid moral reasons as well as money and the thrill of outwitting others as motivations for her murderous, convoluted plot: Suzie Marie Toller, from Wild Things (1998). I would have full confidence in her to be the last woman standing in any battle of intriguer versus intriguer, and to make full use of clues gathered by other members of the League, whether by detective work, psychic senses or disguise. Suzie could play a role similar to that of the original LXG's (non-vampire) Mina Harker, getting along with mostly just a very strong personality.[/quote'] Suzie is a great idea. (Back when we were playing a lot of Vampire, I recommended that movie, and Dangerous Liaisons, as inspirational material for my players, to get them into the proper mindset for undead politics... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Blue Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen Kristopher: "(Back when we were playing a lot of Vampire, I recommended that movie, and Dangerous Liaisons, as inspirational material for my players, to get them into the proper mindset for undead politics...)" Great movies, great inspiration! Off topic, but regardless - I had the great luck to play Vampire: the Masquerade for a gamemaster who liked the system, the ideas and the intrigue, but thought the maudlin self -pity and doom-gloom business was ridiculous. So, we had opponents who would make you laugh out loud - then punch your undead ticket, permanent like. The bad Malkavians and Toraedors, for their different reasons, were prominent in embracing famous and disturbingly competent people. Second to none was "the Kang" - no, not a time traveller with a blue mask, but a popular musician with so little respect for the masquerade that he was often sighted after his death. Perhaps my greatest character, Samir (later known as "the smear") died, or rather was destroyed, taking down the Kang, either temporarily or long enough for us to win the Battle of New York. (It wasn't quite clear which, and the gamemaster had to move state soon after, ending the campaign.) Samir obtained a very powerful magical disguise device, and regardless of the risk of humiliating failure or his prospects of "survival" (for he had suffered in game an intimate betrayal so terrible that he had no real desire to carry on existing, but a tremendous desire to settle the score with steep interest, and soon) he persistently, inventively, shamelessly, fearlessly worked his way through the ranks of the foe to the Kang, whose known psychological limitations he then exploited to the hilt. Samir: "It's a miracle, son - a final chance for forgiveness, and reconciliation. I brought ... your very first guitar." The Kang (misting up tears of vampiric blood, reaching out for the guitar case, and in a priceless accent: "Ohw momma - ah feel, a sowng!" The Kang's last word (with brilliantly acted, uncomprehending, overwhelmed betrayal, and the same priceless accent): "Momma!?!" Samir blew his final action (at my initiative, voluntarily) and every chance of survival, standing paralysed, locked eye to eye, sharing in sincere and complete sympathy the feeling of ultimate betrayal, holding out a mother's hands, tender with pity. THE END It was heartbreaking. (sob!) I can't recommend the use of legendary characters or "Extraordinary Gentlemen" in play too highly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen Ok we've gone for eleven pages here, but there's one character that I'd love to see in a modern LXG. "You know what Jack Burton says at a time like this?" Oh yeah, him or Egg Chin. Or both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tancred Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen Since we're reminescing about old favorite TV shows, here's my 4: Only 1 person mentioned Remington Steele? Dashing, debonair, and wound up being a good detective too. David and Maddie, from the Blue Moon Detective Agency. (Moonlighting) There ain't nobody tougher than Spencer. Except maybe Hawk. Bring 'em both for extra muscle. And the Riptide guys were good detectives too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Omega Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen I can't believe all these people think Hannibal Lecter is so great. People' date=' Will Graham put him behind bars, and effectively put paid to Francis Dolarhyde, the Red Dragon too. Hannibal Lecter is scary because he's evil. Will Graham should be scary if you're evil, because he's The Man. He can find you and identify you even if there's no rational way he should be able to do that. I know who I'd rather have as a partner, and who I would least want to have in a killer team hunting me.[/quote'] Lecter is scary because he is brilliant and evil. He fits the motif of the league pretty well, a gentlemen villain with searing insight, useful skills and quite a reputation. Graham would work fine as well, a tormented detective with a genius for assuming the role of the person he's trying to catch, frightened of that talent, but driven to catch the bad guys. I tend to agree with the books, he probably ended up drinking heavily. But the league could drag him out of that. If you need a chillingly ruthless' date=' cold-blooded brilliant killer, fine: pick a winner who stayed out of jail (and the asylum), and one who had valid moral reasons as well as money and the thrill of outwitting others as motivations for her murderous, convoluted plot: Suzie Marie Toller, from Wild Things (1998). I would have full confidence in her to be the last woman standing in any battle of intriguer versus intriguer, and to make full use of clues gathered by other members of the League, whether by detective work, psychic senses or disguise. Suzie could play a role similar to that of the original LXG's (non-vampire) Mina Harker, getting along with mostly just a very strong personality.[/quote'] I would tend to disagree on a number of points. Suzie had some moral reason for getting Duquette killed, he was a bad cop who killed someone close to her. Sam and Kelly were simply in her way, though if you want to give her some fairly shallow motivations, then when she got busted by the cops again for a minor offense and could not call him for help because he was out boating might work. Her competation was also considerly less than others like Hannibal. A dumb ex-jock sliding through life, a police department that ranged from corrupt to incompetant to purely political, and a clueless rich girl who never even figured out the plot had more than one layer. Either Graham or Starling would have nailed Suzie. Give her a chance to gain experience and skill though, and she could certainly have a role in the league down the road.In the movie, she's at the same stage Hannibal was 30 years before getting caught. Part of the fun of Suzie in the league would be figuring out where she goes from the end of the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Blue Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen Iuz the Evil: "You know what Jack Burton says at a time like this?" "It's all in the reflexes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen Give her a chance to gain experience and skill though, and she could certainly have a role in the league down the road.In the movie, she's at the same stage Hannibal was 30 years before getting caught. Part of the fun of Suzie in the league would be figuring out where she goes from the end of the movie. I'd rather have Suzie then Hannibal. Is she as smart and manipulative as Hannibal is? No. On the other hand however she isn't likely to want to nosh on her associates. I've gotta think that would do wonders for team morale. Hannibal would be a good choice for a LXG villain however. Granted Suzie would attempt to manipulate the team to her own ends, but any LXG team worthy of the name can deal with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jim Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen snake plisken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Blue Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen Lecter is scary because he is brilliant and evil. He fits the motif of the league pretty well' date=' a gentlemen villain with searing insight, useful skills and quite a reputation. Graham would work fine as well, a tormented detective with a genius for assuming the role of the person he's trying to catch, frightened of that talent, but driven to catch the bad guys. I tend to agree with the books, he probably ended up drinking heavily. But the league could drag him out of that.[/quote'] I thought the third book was a disaster on a bunch of levels, and that Will Graham (and this reader) got shorted; but apart from that I would agree with you. Only when you said "searing insight" I couldn't help thinking "theory and insight," which what you think Hannibal is using when in fact it's a little bit of inside knowledge and his complete bad faith. In other words I would have so little trust in Dr. Lecter that for me it's impossible for that not to shade over into having no confidence in him as an ally. - I would tend to disagree on a number of points. Suzie had some moral reason for getting Duquette killed' date=' he was a bad cop who killed someone close to her. Sam and Kelly were simply in her way, though if you want to give her some fairly shallow motivations, then when she got busted by the cops again for a minor offense and could not call him for help because he was out boating might work.[/quote'] That would work well enough for the game. Personally, I thought Kelly did not necessarily have to die as far as Suzie was concerned, though Sam did. And all things considered I can live with that. Two people were not returning from that yacht trip under any circumstances. If you have a spectrum of cunning killers stretching left to right from Francis Dolarhyde to Jackie Brown, based on a mix of the morality and necessity that drove them to killing and the ease with which they were apt to be provoked into being unpleasant or worse, I would put Hannibal Lecter nearer the middle than the Red Dragon, but not by much, and I would put Suzie Marie Toller a great deal less to the right than Jackie, but still on the right side of the (indefinable) middle. Which is a great thing if you are a physically Extraordinary but comparatively hard-of-thinking team-mate, like Kelly, and unlike Kelly aware of that limitation. I see Suzie as like the chess champion M.M. Botvinnik: he would explain the master plan in the notes, and you might answer to yourself "that wasn't forced - the opponent could have taken another course". But his record and the general quality of his work indicated that then there would have been the same result, just with a different master plan clearly visible after the fact. Her competation was also considerly less than others like Hannibal. A dumb ex-jock sliding through life' date=' a police department that ranged from corrupt to incompetant to purely political, and a clueless rich girl who never even figured out the plot had more than one layer. Either Graham or Starling would have nailed Suzie.[/quote'] Yup. Well Will Graham for sure, and easily, and Clarice Starling very probably too, if she was at the peak of her powers and investigating with every advantage, preferably early, before Suzie had her act properly together. (I'm less than impressed with Clarice. Jame Gumb was not a world-beater.) Let's remember that Hannibal Lecter too built the greater part of his mighty reputation against utter mooks. He just made such lip-smacking play with his superiority that it seemed a big deal to many. Give her a chance to gain experience and skill though' date=' and she could certainly have a role in the league down the road. In the movie, she's at the same stage Hannibal was 30 years before getting caught. Part of the fun of Suzie in the league would be figuring out where she goes from the end of the movie.[/quote'] OK. Experience, preferably at the top level, counts. Hannibal has it, Suzie doesn't. In Wild Things, she's just testing her powers for the first time, and getting her act together. Which, by the end, she does. Is she ready for Hannibal by the opening frames of Wild Things? Definitely not. Reasonable people can agree on that without discussion. By the end? Maybe. Here the decision is not as clear, though of course Dr. Lecter's admirers (in a sense!) have no reason not to press his strong claims. Wild Things is 1998, and we are in 2005. In my opinion, that's easily all the time she needs to consolidate and extend her skills and reach full maturity. At which point, I do not see her equal - though that's sheer speculation. When you say: "she could certainly have a role in the league down the road," how long do you think she needs to reach the level where she would be ready to fill the role you think she's up for? Seven years? Or how much more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Blue Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen Brother Jim: "snake plisken" I heard about him. I heard he was dead. (And a little further in the future than I thought we were looking.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen "You know what Jack Burton says at a time like this?" "The check is in the mail." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen If you are looking for a lighter character, might I recommend Hudson Hawk. He has B&E skills up the ying yang and is prone to breaking into song. What more can you ask for from a team member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen Alright, my list Dr. Glass - the techguy of the group John Constantine - a little occult knowledge, a lot of contacts, some vague, undefined powers Hawk (from the Spenser novels) - Thug extraordinare Beatrix Kiddo - Martial artist, with contacts to the international criminal underworld Hannibal Lecter - Evil genius, brilliant mind, true monster All financed by the aged, mysterious and physically infirm "Mr. Wayne", a former playboy with lots of money What I thought a lot of most of the previous lists is that most of the characters were missing that sense of moral dubiousness that you got from the comic characters. Quartermaine was a recovering opium addict, Mina a former bride of Dracula, the Invisible man was a thief, Hyde a monster, and nemo a terrorist. All of my League members have that villian edge to them that people like MacGyver, Harry Potter, and Ralph Hinkley (as much as I love them all) are never gonna have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen If you are looking for a lighter character' date=' might I recommend Hudson Hawk. He has B&E skills up the ying yang and is prone to breaking into song. What more can you ask for from a team member.[/quote'] Love HH, but too bright and cheery for this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen snake plisken Yeah, you need a guy on the team that can get you out of any situation that you get yourself into. Snake is the man for impossible missions. Speaking of which, what about Ethan Hunt from the original Mission:Impossible series? Going back even further...Maxwell Smart from "Get Smart" The woman in the tight black leather in "The Avengers" just because you always need a girl on your team in tight black leather (name escaping me right now - Mrs. Emma Peel?) Mad Max for a true Road Warrior Indiana Jones to replace Quartermaine Pulling from literary works like the original League - Sherlock Holmes, James Bond was a good example, DaVinci code hero?, Finneas Fogg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryB Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen My Picks for Era Leagues Noir "Gentleman" (1920's thru 50's) Combined ---------------------------------- Sam Spade Hercule Poirot The Phantom The Shadow Dick Tracey 60's ---------------------------------- Ben Richards (The Immortal) Insp. Jacques Clouseau(Sellers) Green Hornet Kato (Lee) Caine (Carridine) 70's ---------------------------------- Kojak Steve Austin Jamie Summers Kolchak Evil Kenevil 80's ---------------------------------- Dukes of Hazard (LOL) Michael Knight & KITT (As much as I hate the show) Rambo Terminator (Converted) Beetlejuice 90's ---------------------------------- Buffy Summers Willow Rosenberg Michael Wiseman (Now and Again) Marie (Anne Parillaud/Innocent Blood 1992) El Mariachi (Banderas) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Omega Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen I thought the third book was a disaster on a bunch of levels' date=' and that Will Graham (and this reader) got shorted; but apart from that I would agree with you.[/quote'] The third book started interestingly. Then slowly turned into one of those slow motion trainwrecks. The movie was even worse. Only when you said "searing insight" I couldn't help thinking "theory and insight' date='" which what you think Hannibal is using when in fact it's a little bit of inside knowledge and his complete bad faith.[/quote'] Given that he had never met Clarice and nailed her personality and psyches in a couple of minutes, there is more than inside information. Will Graham (Who we both agree is The Man when it comes to the FBI) uses Lector more than once for problems he could no figure out. In other words I would have so little trust in Dr. Lecter that for me it's impossible for that not to shade over into having no confidence in him as an ally. Lecter's not trustworthy. Neither is Suzie. Quite a few in the League were not really trustworthy either, but the threat involved was worth the risk of using them. That's part of the fun of the league is that they are largely villains fighting people who are even worse. The rest might be basicly decent people, but tormented by inner demons. If you have a spectrum of cunning killers stretching left to right from Francis Dolarhyde to Jackie Brown' date=' based on a mix of the morality and necessity that drove them to killing and the ease with which they were apt to be provoked into being unpleasant or worse, I would put Hannibal Lecter nearer the middle than the Red Dragon, but not by much, and I would put Suzie Marie Toller a great deal less to the right than Jackie, but still on the right side of the (indefinable) middle. Which is a great thing if you are a physically Extraordinary but comparatively hard-of-thinking team-mate, like Kelly, and unlike Kelly aware of that limitation.[/quote'] I'm now thinking Lecter and Suzie is not a good comparison. They would serve totally different roles in a group. Lecter is a serial killer with great understanding, knowledge and experience. He's also totally insane, with a huge ego and need to play mind games which he just can't help. He could likely analyze an opponant very well and his capacity for sudden violence would get used at least once in such a hypothetical comic book series. Suzie is a sociopath in a fairly normal sense. She thinks nothing of killing someone or letting them be killed if it serves her purpose, however twisted it might be. But otherwise is not compelled to kill. Definitely a top class intuiger, though, and good planner. I see Suzie as like the chess champion M.M. Botvinnik: he would explain the master plan in the notes' date=' and you might answer to yourself "that wasn't forced - the opponent could have taken another course". But his record and the general quality of his work indicated that then there would have been the same result, just with a different master plan clearly visible after the fact.[/quote'] I'm more call Lecter Botvinnik. A grand old master who beats people with experience and ability to analyze and read opponants. Suzie reminds moe more of Tal or perhaps Kasparov. Considerably more flash in her game, more complexity, risk, and noise. If she can add more depth and experience, then she's more Kasparov. Yes, I'm a chess geek:) Yup. Well Will Graham for sure' date=' and easily, and Clarice Starling very probably too, if she was at the peak of her powers and investigating with every advantage, preferably early, before Suzie had her act properly together. (I'm less than impressed with Clarice. Jame Gumb was not a world-beater.)[/quote'] I think you are a little hard on Starling. For an FBI trainee who's not even graduated from the Academy yet, she does very well. And with very little support from the FBI. When you say: "she could certainly have a role in the league down the road' date='" how long do you think she needs to reach the level where she would be ready to fill the role you think she's up for? Seven years? Or how much more?[/quote'] Depends on what she does after the movie. A typical scam to gain millions probably would not get her noticed by a new league. Assuming she doesn't just kick back and enjoy her wealth, then she'd get education to make her intelligence. Can't see her going corporate. We've given little sense of her motivations beyond the desire to get millions (a perfectly good reason but which gives little indication of where she would go from there). Assuming that growing up around the rich and entitled, would give her a desire to be rich and entitled, she's halfway there. A high society intruiger would then seem likely. Maybe the league could pick up her while she's escaping a small caribbean island she was ruling through manipulation, until things went boom. She's certainly a risk taker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Blue Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen Black Omega: what you said in your last post. Including the bits where you disagreed with me. We've reached agreement, and on some points I've changed my mind. For one thing, I was too hard on Clarice Starling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThothAmon Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen I'll take a shot, sticking to Moore's original themes (literary characters, extant in the period, flawed characters required, not necessarily mainstream characters, outre pulp preferred): Group leader - Modesty Blaise (q.v.) Muscle / violence #1 - Remo (The Destroyer novels) Muscle / violence #2 - Repairman Jack (The Tomb) Hacker / sorceror - Bob Howard (The Atrocity Archives) Psionic - Harry Keogh (Necroscope) Investigator / pychologist / con man - Burke (Flood) Has anyone tried laying out stats for Remo and Chun? A while back I had a player who wanted a Remo clone but I couldn't do all his abilities in a reasonable amount of points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen Has anyone tried laying out stats for Remo and Chun? A while back I had a player who wanted a Remo clone but I couldn't do all his abilities in a reasonable amount of points I'm sure he's out there. My own take on a current Remo clone would be a 750 point character, but you could do an early Remo for 350 or less. In Books 1-5 he was probably under 200 points as long as Chiun is seen as a contact rather than a follower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Omega Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen Black Omega: what you said in your last post. Including the bits where you disagreed with me. We've reached agreement' date=' and on some points I've changed my mind. For one thing, I was too hard on Clarice Starling.[/quote'] It was a good discussion, always nice to disagree with someone and still manage a thoughtful, civilized discussion. Has anyone tried laying out stats for Remo and Chun? A while back I had a player who wanted a Remo clone but I couldn't do all his abilities in a reasonable amount of points Really early Remo basically has probably max human physical stats, or close to it, and basic martial arts manuvers. Light sleep (I recall the training in the first book 'teaching' him to wake up easily). He's also starting to build that susceptibility to hamburger. Remo only gets truly superhuman later, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBikle Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen You could possibly add Thomas Edison to the group, but he'd always be arguing with Tesla about electricity and money owed for patents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: A Modern League of Extroardinary Gentlemen To "Gary B" Twenties to Fifties Gotta have Doc (Clark Savage Jr) in that group for sure, and did you include Dr Henry Jones Jr as well ? If not, for shame ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.