TheEmerged Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... Without Champions, I probably wouldn't have returned to RPG's during the late 80's -- or I'd have continued concentrating on wargames like Battletech. In terms of what other systems I've used and liked, the old DC system (the 9-stat one) had its charms, as did the original Marvel system (AKA "FASERIP"). The later Marvel System ("MSHAG", or the one with the cards) had potential but needed a lot of work to be truly playable... There are aspects of Aberrant and "Brave New World" I liked, but in both cases there were critical flaws that kept me from actually running them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just A Guy Name Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... I'd be using SAS Tri-Stat (already do, for my own games ). GURPS4E could be used as is for running a supers game, but I'm waiting for Powers to come out to see how Sean is polishing the system for that genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... Going strictly by system, Tri-Stat SAS. Taking setting into account, M&M, due to Freedom City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... Probably a house rule modified V&V. I still like their str/con/mass affect lifting capacity, lifting capacity determines hand to hand damage better than anything else I have seen, I think. What Superhero RPG would be your fave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... FASERIP Marvel Supers. With Marvel and Champions available, I haven't felt a need to really look deeply at SAS or M&M or any of the other post-80's products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamo Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... GURPS4E could be used as is for running a supers game' date=' but I'm waiting for [u']Powers[/u] to come out to see how Sean is polishing the system for that genre.Per Sean Punch, GURPS Powers will not be the Supers genre book for GURPS 4e. It's slated as a crunch book in the spirit of G:Vehicles or G:Ultra Tech. Word on the net is that a G:Supers for 4e has been pitched that will "fix all the problems with the previous editions" and "blow Hero/Champions away." I'll believe it when I see it. As much as I like GURPS for most genres, G:Supers has consistently disappointed me. If Champions didn't exist, I would be playing SAS for my superhero fix. It's one of two supers games I've played and really enjoyed system-wise* besides Champions. The other is Aberrant. I just picked up a copy of M&M, and it looks promising, but I've yet to take it for a test drive. * Had a great time playing V&V, but that was the GM and other players. The game itself is a non-system of poorly designed, arbitrary rules. This same GM ran a game on a 4-day road trip with no dice, paper, or rules, and the whole van-full of us had a fabulous time. Pure talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... Based on past GURPS material that I've read, my expectation is that whatever book ends up being 4e supers won't be able to blow away a paper sailboat on a goldfish pond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted December 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... The thing about GURPS Supers (or at least what I feel is an issue) is that it gives the impression that the writer, the line developer or someone involved in the creation process doesn't like the idea of supers/comic worlds. Or maybe just the assumption you have to use to make the genre work. That was just my impression. I'm a little leery that its going to take an entire book just to lay out the rules for designing powers and that its not a campaign/genre book as well. That seems to indicate more complexity than even as Hero fan might like. that or a really long shopping list of premade abilities. Either way I get the feeling we can expect to be treated to several long flame war threads on places like rpg.net (and even here) about how Champions and Hero are obsolete and outdone approximately two days after the book is released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... On the flip side, I ran a GURPS Supers campaign on and off for years. For Iron Age Supers gaming, GURPS had its good points. The worst problem was the ease with which characters could be disabled or killed. Super Brawls required extensive house rules to keep the team alive (I required almost every Super to have Regeneration, Regrowth and a high HT score, and used STR rather than HT for hit points). In the end I came back to Champions when I wanted to go for a more Silver/Bronze feel in my games, and because the Supers genre was under-suported by GURPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haerandir Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... Good Guys Finish Last, out of Space Gamer/Fantasy Gamer #3 (I think). Sadly, my copy of that magazine disappeared about 10 years ago, and I haven't been able to get my hands on a new copy of it. So, I'd be forced to fall back on my backup choice, the old reliable: Marvel Super Heroes (TSR second edition). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted December 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... On the flip side' date=' I ran a GURPS Supers campaign on and off for years. For Iron Age Supers gaming, GURPS had its good points. The worst problem was the ease with which characters could be disabled or killed. Super Brawls required extensive house rules to keep the team alive (I required almost every Super to have Regeneration, Regrowth and a high HT score, and used STR rather than HT for hit points). In the end I came back to Champions when I wanted to go for a more Silver/Bronze feel in my games, and because the Supers genre was under-suported by GURPS.[/quote'] I'll agree. One of the features with GURPS is that the closer you stick to realism, the better it performs as a simulator. Now I've heard fourth edition goes a bit more for the cinematic. Unfortunately, I don't have the funds to look into it at the moment unless someone is willing to pay my third edition books. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug McCrae Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... I'm running a Silver Age Sentinels game at the moment. If SAS didn't exist I'd probably use DC Heroes or Champions. For a game set in the Marvel universe I might use the Marvel SAGA system - the one with the cards. At some point I'd like to give Mutants & Masterminds a try as I hear it's pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... I'd just hang up my cape and move to another genre. Actually, at this point, I'm so sick of supers that I probably won't run champions again. A thirteen year mega campaign with sessions almost every week is enough to kill anyone's desire to see anyone it tights ever again. I've moved back to genres I haven't touched in over a decade, and I'm loving it. Hero is my lingua franca, but harnmaster and the dream pod 9 system make me happy, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fry Daddy Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... I would no longer play supers and would probably go to Call of Cthulhu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... All these folks who said they wuold be playing SAS instead, (me included). The SAS crew has given credit to Champions as one of their major influences. When I frequented their msg board, They had no problem when Hero was mentioned, and if anyone bad mouthed it, defended it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... Probably the old DC Heroes 2 edition (The 3x3 stats one) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted December 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... All these folks who said they wuold be playing SAS instead, (me included). The SAS crew has given credit to Champions as one of their major influences. When I frequented their msg board, They had no problem when Hero was mentioned, and if anyone bad mouthed it, defended it. Its a shame the fans can't get along as well as the people who have a real financial interest in how the games do in the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... I'd just hang up my cape and move to another genre. Actually' date=' at this point, I'm so sick of supers that I probably won't run champions again. A thirteen year mega campaign with sessions almost every week is enough to kill anyone's desire to see anyone it tights ever again. I've moved back to genres I haven't touched in over a decade, and I'm loving it. Hero is my lingua franca, but harnmaster and the dream pod 9 system make me happy, too.[/quote'] I'm kind of in the same boat. My group was more than happy to keep playing supers but I was gettin sick of it. Right now we're doing straight heroic and have a blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... If Champions didn't exist, I would have had to try and build my own Superhero system. Of course, it would probably be really complicated and no one would want to play it, pretty much like Champions was before the BBB and FRED, only much much worse. "Your superpowers not only break the laws of thermadynamics, you implode and collapse into a black hole, completely destroying this dimension and the adjacent ones." "...." "Hey, you wanted a cosmically powerful being." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... There were only a few things I liked "better" about gurps. I liked the way damage scaled with strength. It always seemed to me that if someone who was super strong used an axe or sword, the damage would be... vicious. assuming the weapon survived. Thinking about it in retrospect, maybe Gurps went TOO far in trying to avoid damage compression. ? I liked the way Gurps treated the difference between RACIAL features and personal features. If your entire RACE is twice as strong as a normal human, it is cheaper than if YOU are twice as strong as your race. I liked their treatment of Encumbrance at the time. I'll agree. One of the features with GURPS is that the closer you stick to realism' date=' the better it performs as a simulator. Now I've heard fourth edition goes a bit more for the cinematic. Unfortunately, I don't have the funds to look into it at the moment unless someone is willing to pay my third edition books. :/[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... Let's see, I've had almost all of them... V&V MEGs TSR's Marvel (Original, advanced) FASERIP Mutants & Masterminds Heroes Unlimited Silver Age Sentinals SAS D20 Champions: New Mellinnium Marvel II (the 4 stat one) Aberrant In that order. Though V&V and MEGs are pretty close to a tie. HU wins out in a nostalgia fest. plus I have about 7 supplements for it so I have more to work with. I've looked at but never really read: Enforcers - ugh Superworld - almost bought that but they had Champions at the store at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... Let's see, I've had almost all of them... V&V MEGs TSR's Marvel (Original, advanced) FASERIP Mutants & Masterminds Heroes Unlimited Silver Age Sentinals SAS D20 Champions: New Mellinnium Marvel II (the 4 stat one) Aberrant In that order. Though V&V and MEGs are pretty close to a tie. HU wins out in a nostalgia fest. plus I have about 7 supplements for it so I have more to work with. I've looked at but never really read: Enforcers - ugh Superworld - almost bought that but they had Champions at the store at the time Ever try FemForce? It wasn't that bad for the time. No, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... I don't know... GURPS seems to be stealing' date=' erm, I mean seems[i'] awful close[/i] to the Hero System rules. Mags They are two Branches of the same tree. GURPS would be the game I would play if there were no Hero System. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... Ever try FemForce? It wasn't that bad for the time. No, really. Couldn't find it. Nor could I ever get a hold of Golden Heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted December 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... There were only a few things I liked "better" about gurps. I liked the way damage scaled with strength. It always seemed to me that if someone who was super strong used an axe or sword, the damage would be... vicious. assuming the weapon survived. Thinking about it in retrospect, maybe Gurps went TOO far in trying to avoid damage compression. ? . I have to admit I do like that better than Hero's damage cap on that sort of thing. Its makes certain concepts a bit easier to build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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