assault Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... Nor could I ever get a hold of Golden Heroes. There's actually a new version/edition of Golden Heroes in playtest at the moment. The name has been changed to Squadron UK. The playtest is going on through the Golden Heroes Yahoo Group. What's really interesting about it, though, is that the group's file section contains a whole bunch of old articles and scenarios from White Dwarf magazine. At least some of these scenarios are dual-statted for Champions as well as GH. You have to join the group to get access to them, though. GH has some interesting mechanisms, which could be borrowed for house rules. Otherwise it's pretty average. The fact that it was a British game is interesting, but there was never a really adequately developed setting for it. Oh yeah. That reminds me: there was an Australian produced SH RPG called Super Squadron. It was rather similar to V&V in many ways, since they both were influenced by D&D. It wasn't able to break into the US market. That's no great loss, since it didn't really do anything that other games didn't do better, but does indicate the problems faced by wouldbe Australian game designers. I've lifted a few ideas from it for my Champions games. These are mostly related to a statistical breakdown of origin types. Of course, I ignore such matters whenever I design a game that is actually intended to be run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... What Superhero RPG would be your fave? Probably DC. I had already purchased the DC boxed set along with a module or two, though I had never played it. That would be my *favorite* simply because DC is my favorite. I don't really think I'd play a superhero RPG, considering that the group I got with didn't play any others, though the closest may be Rifts or Palladium (probably Rifts), though I really wouldn't have considered myself a superhero; it's all about the genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Knight Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... If Champions wasn't around, I would probably either be playing DC Universe (the WEG relaunch of the DC RPG) or I would try to play M&M. I bought M&M when it first came out and it looked really cool. I quickly sat down and started to read the rules and slammed right into a huge issue for me. The powers. The way that you assign and buy powers is (IMHO) wierd. For a character with only a few powers it is not bad. A Superman type is easy... but if you ry to make a Iron Man: War Machine type (where there are multiple weapons) it becomes messy. From the jist I get... You by an "Attack Power" at a set level... (OK.. straight forwards so far). Now... let us assume that the attack is an energy beam.. If you want to add another type of an attack.. like a flamethrower.. Instead of buying another Attack Power, you just add limiters or bonuses to the initial power. SO you would have an Attack Power with a myriad of modifiers to represent all your different attacks. This never sat right with me and I have looked at the book numerous times trying to wrap my mind around it. Even my friends have sat down with me to work it out. None of us like the powers system. The D20 rules we know from playing D&D and Star Wars.... but the Powers leave a lot to be desired. OK... sorry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bblackmoor Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... What Superhero RPG would be your fave? I'd probably be using Risus or the Marvel card-based game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... I'd probably be using Risus or the Marvel card-based game. Must...resist...card...games.... So, um, what's Risus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bblackmoor Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... So' date=' um, what's Risus?[/quote'] A free (but not Open) game by S. John Ross. Great for quick pick up games. I even ran a fairly long fantasy campaign using it, several years and a few game groups ago. http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... PONG. I'd be playing PONG! Or maybe Parchisi (sp?). Go Fish? WAR! Operation? CandyLand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... To "Assault" I have a copy of "Super Squadron" somewhere around the place. I never played it however as I disliked the random method of assigning powers. The only "Super" games that I have played are "Champions" (albeit a weird muto version), "Superhero 44", and "Brave New World". Actually I refereed "Superhero 44" and have only played a couple of games of "BNW". I may redo "BNW" in the new year with a new character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egyptian Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... Marvel Super Heroes. It did in a rules light way what HERO does in a detailed fashion. I still feel quite fond of the ol' girl and I certainly can't see myself getting rid of my books anytime soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... I'd probably lean towards MSH/Advanced, DC Heroes/1st or 2nd Ed., or maybe Tri-Stat. Underground was a "superpunk" game that intrigued me. It's interesting no one's mentioned Aberrant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... I think that Champions has had such a major impact on the design of so many games in the genre that if it had never existed, who knows what route superhero game design might have taken? Would someone else have come up with the idea of having "Advantages" and "Limitations" to Powers? Or what about "Disadvantages"? I believe both of these were either invented (in the case of "Advantages" and "Limitiations") or significantly refined (in the case of "Disadvantages") by Champions. If no one else came up with these ideas, I suspect the whole field would look considerably different, so it's impossible to say what superhero game I would be playing -- if I was role-playing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bblackmoor Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... It's interesting no one's mentioned Aberrant Tried it. Hated it. Aberrant could be made into a decent, or even very good, game, but it would take more work than I would be willing to invest. I think I may still have some of my notes that were aimed in that direction, though (the group I was playing with at the time really wanted to play it). Ah, I found it. This is just a few notes: I got this far and quit, basically. But it will give you an idea where I was heading with it. My game group disagreed, and we parted company. I wound up playing D&D for a while after that with another group. Anyway, here are the notes, such as they are: Sterility & Fertility, pg. 77 Some Novas are sterile, or have DNA so different from baseline humans that they are no longer interfertile. Conversely, some Novas are (as one might reasonably expect) superfertile, with multiple-birth pregnancies resulting from even the briefest intimate contact. Most Novas, however, are merely as fertile as an exceptionally healthy baseline human. Character Creation Table, pg. 120 see 155: Attributes vs. Mega-Attribrutes Eufiber, pg. 141 Yech. Replace w/ "Smart Matter", polymer goo infused with nanomachine colonies. Each dot provides 1 dot Soak (no Quantum Point expenditure needed). Smart matter has all of the adaptive and cosmetic properties attributed to Eufiber. Node, pg. 143 Yech. Replace w/ "Coherence", an term referring to the efficiency of a Nova's powers. A character may expend a number of Quantum Points per Turn equal to: (Coherence + 3) * 2 Co......QP/Turn 0.......6 1.......8 2.......10 3.......12 4.......14 5.......16 Quantum, pg. 146 "Quantum", like "Coherence" and "Willpower", is an abstraction. "Quantum" is a term referring to a Nova's level of raw power. "Tesla Index" is a different but closely related term. Regaining Quantum Pool, pg. 147 End of scene: regain all spent quantum points. Rest for a Turn (take no actions, use no powers), recover: (Coherence + 3) Co......QP/Turn 0.......3 1.......4 2.......5 3.......6 4.......7 5.......8 Mega-Attributes, pg. 155 This Attribute vs. Mega-Attribute system is just a mess. Eliminate "Mega-Attributes" as a separate power. Instead, simply count any dots above 5 as "Mega", providing 3 dice on Attribute rolls. Successes are determined normally. A character may use a dot to reduce difficulty instead, as normal. Buying an Attribute up to 5 costs 1 Nova point per 3 dots. Buying an Attribute greater than 5 costs 3 Nova for 1 dot. Att.....dice 1.......1 2.......2 3.......3 4.......4 5.......5 6.......8 7.......11 8.......14 9.......17 10,,,,,,20 Mega-Strength, pg. 156 No need to treat Strength differently from other Attributes. Extras, pg. 179 A power may be bought with up to two Extras. Quantum Point cost, pg. 179 QP cost to activate a power for a scene = the level of the power. In the case of powers with multiple applications, the quantum point cost for each additional technique used during a scene is 1 QP. Quantum Regeneration, pg. 219 Level: 2 Quantum Minimum: 3 Effect: Spend one Willpower to completely replenish the character's Quantum Pool during a Turn of complete rest. It hasn't been playtested, nor is it complete, but that's where I would start if I actually wanted to play Aberrant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcL63 Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... ...someone would've had to have invented it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted December 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... Tried it. Hated it. Aberrant could be made into a decent, or even very good, game, but it would take more work than I would be willing to invest. I think I may still have some of my notes that were aimed in that direction, though (the group I was playing with at the time really wanted to play it). Ah, I found it. This is just a few notes: I got this far and quit, basically. But it will give you an idea where I was heading with it. My game group disagreed, and we parted company. I wound up playing D&D for a while after that with another group. Anyway, here are the notes, such as they are: Sterility & Fertility, pg. 77 Some Novas are sterile, or have DNA so different from baseline humans that they are no longer interfertile. Conversely, some Novas are (as one might reasonably expect) superfertile, with multiple-birth pregnancies resulting from even the briefest intimate contact. Most Novas, however, are merely as fertile as an exceptionally healthy baseline human. Character Creation Table, pg. 120 see 155: Attributes vs. Mega-Attribrutes Eufiber, pg. 141 Yech. Replace w/ "Smart Matter", polymer goo infused with nanomachine colonies. Each dot provides 1 dot Soak (no Quantum Point expenditure needed). Smart matter has all of the adaptive and cosmetic properties attributed to Eufiber. Node, pg. 143 Yech. Replace w/ "Coherence", an term referring to the efficiency of a Nova's powers. A character may expend a number of Quantum Points per Turn equal to: (Coherence + 3) * 2 Co......QP/Turn 0.......6 1.......8 2.......10 3.......12 4.......14 5.......16 Quantum, pg. 146 "Quantum", like "Coherence" and "Willpower", is an abstraction. "Quantum" is a term referring to a Nova's level of raw power. "Tesla Index" is a different but closely related term. Regaining Quantum Pool, pg. 147 End of scene: regain all spent quantum points. Rest for a Turn (take no actions, use no powers), recover: (Coherence + 3) Co......QP/Turn 0.......3 1.......4 2.......5 3.......6 4.......7 5.......8 Mega-Attributes, pg. 155 This Attribute vs. Mega-Attribute system is just a mess. Eliminate "Mega-Attributes" as a separate power. Instead, simply count any dots above 5 as "Mega", providing 3 dice on Attribute rolls. Successes are determined normally. A character may use a dot to reduce difficulty instead, as normal. Buying an Attribute up to 5 costs 1 Nova point per 3 dots. Buying an Attribute greater than 5 costs 3 Nova for 1 dot. Att.....dice 1.......1 2.......2 3.......3 4.......4 5.......5 6.......8 7.......11 8.......14 9.......17 10,,,,,,20 Mega-Strength, pg. 156 No need to treat Strength differently from other Attributes. Extras, pg. 179 A power may be bought with up to two Extras. Quantum Point cost, pg. 179 QP cost to activate a power for a scene = the level of the power. In the case of powers with multiple applications, the quantum point cost for each additional technique used during a scene is 1 QP. Quantum Regeneration, pg. 219 Level: 2 Quantum Minimum: 3 Effect: Spend one Willpower to completely replenish the character's Quantum Pool during a Turn of complete rest. It hasn't been playtested, nor is it complete, but that's where I would start if I actually wanted to play Aberrant. I played (and play) Aberrant. In general, I enjoy it. The system is workable (Loaded with setting baggage though) there was aspects of the setting and feel I didn't care for. In some ways its pure "Rusty Iron" Age in that feels like it was created by people at didn't want to look closely at the superheroic genre and creatively deconstruct it but instead hated the genre and wanted to mock and satirize it. "White Wolfism" started creeping in and more and more over time until the game felt more like Vampire with colorful costumes. And there was Pet NPCs problem, metaplot on rails, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin273 Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... If Champions didn't exist I'd have to say I'd be playing MSH or DC Heroes. I had a good campaign with Marvel, and I like the superheroic mechanics of DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcL63 Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... "White Wolfism"I've long had another term for this, but "White Wolfism" is as good a phrase as any for pretty much everything that I most dislike in today's roleplaying so as to deserve rep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... I've long had another term for this, but "White Wolfism" is as good a phrase as any for pretty much everything that I most dislike in today's roleplaying so as to deserve rep! Care to elaborate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... I thought up another game I played way back in high school called Villains and Vigilantes. I don't remember too much about it (other than you could create a variety of characters), but my character was an android (I don't think any character knew) and one of my best buds was playing a huge Sumo wrestler who happened to be the fastest guy on the team. I recall my character was good at defeating the 'normals' so-to-speak and very accurate. We did split our party often (there were eight of us, so it wasn't that big of a deal) and one of the groups was attacked by an ubervillain. Our group tried to come to the rescue, but the super-Sumo got there first. On his first round, the Sumo got thrown through a fortress wall. He got back off, dusted himself off and used his full speed to ram the villain. It knocked the building down and ended the reign of the villain. When the three in my group arrived, we saw the Sumo dusting himself off and the other four-team group patting the Sumo on the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... I woudn't be playing supers regularly. I'd probably play short scenarios of V&V, Tri-stat SAS (assuming it would exist without Champions) and/or MSH, but no campaigns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiawarr Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... Superworld...definitely. My early gaming group evolved out of a love for Runequest and COC. Superworld seemed like the obvious choice. I owned both 1st Edition and 2nd Edition Champs, but really did make full use of it until 4th Edition (Big Blue Book). That was when I fully converted to HERO goodness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... DC Heroes/Blood of Heroes/MEGS. No question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmenace Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... I'd be playing DC Heroes/Megs. It scaled power level so well and there were a hell of a lot of sourcebooks. Still, I'm glad I have Hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memorax300 Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... Pulsar Games has new owners and some interesting plans for next year so MEGS would most-likey be what I'd be playing. Marvel Superheroes was fun too but a little too simplistic. I tried playing M&M a couple of times but it really didn't seem to fit for me. I don't care for Tri-stat at all. Would you have any links to any information? While I like champions I was always a fan of the MEGS system and was happy that someone else bought Pulsar Games. The reason I am asking is that they have not updated their website in over an year and would like to find out more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... I've ignored this thread out of general disinterest (though no fault of anyone here), but I finally got interested and took a look, so here's my answer: None. If it weren't for Champions and the HERO System, I probably would not be involved in the RPG world in any way. In fact, if DOJ hadn't revived the system I probably would have given up at least a year ago. (Thanks, DOJ!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Re: If Champions didn't exist... I thought up another game I played way back in high school called Villains and Vigilantes. The same crew that made V&V also has come out with Living Legends . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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