Retcon the CU

[Agent X]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

What was that, McCoy? I didn't hear you.

 

It is possible to dislike something for multiple reasons.

 

I agree with McCoy. I don't like anything as being the single source for superpowers.

 

I agree with some others. My heart can't feel supertech not really being super when "low magic tide" rolls in and other issues with Magic being chosen as the single source for superpowers.

 

I agree with the some other others. I don't like the constriction caused by the Meta-setting. I also am not fond of elements of the Meta-setting. I don't like the assumptions made about power levels for Golden Age characters, for example. It's very Meta-Game to just decide they are of low level or it's a poor understanding of the Golden Age of Comics. I'm not quite sure which is to blame for DOJ's take on the Golden Age.

 

And I just don't like the mystery being taken out of EVERYTHING. I don't like it when Marvel and DC and George Lucas do it. Why should I like it when DOJ does it?

[Mantis]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Retcon the CU? I say raze the CU!

 

I would ditch the CU in its entirety. What purpose does it serve? Does it matter to a 21st century super that the Valdorian Age is in the history books (or not)? Does it make any difference in the Alien Wars era whether or not supers existed in the 21st century? Well, since for all practical purposes they didn't, why bother saying they are in the same universe? Why not just say the Fantasy Hero universe and the Champions universe and the Star Hero universe etc are all separate, or even make them "multiverses"? All the CU apparently does is place limits on the creativity of writers - for although a submission need not conform to the CU, to date, how many have been submitted or published??

 

It strikes me as just a marketing gimmick - one rulebook, one timeline, multiple genres. It shoehorns multiple universes into one, and the result is two feet in one boot - crowded, uncomfortable, and impractical when trying to move forward.

[CBikle]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

I think the intent behind the shared timeline was to encourage interest in overlapping genres, especially with Champions (the super hero genre is pretty much inclusive to all other genres).

 

I don't think this was a bad idea, but it should have been a little more freeform and the sourcebooks should have been a little more permeable to each other.

 

The explanation behind the appearance and disappearance of super beings should have been more theoretical and vague ("scientific-historians believe that the reduction of paranormals by 2030 was due in part by the widespread usage of cleaner, non-radioactive sources of power as well as the beginning of genetic manipulation in medicine. It should be noted that some philosophers and "occultists" claim that the "extinction" of super-powered beings was due to the sudden decline in magical ley lines and mana.")

[Starlord]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

I honestly believe that is the whole key to why people dislike the magic concept. It is not that they care about magic being the source; it's that they don't like the meta-setting concept and assume magic is the reason for it.

 

Ok, at this point it's becoming comical. I'm almost embarrassed for you.

[Mark Rand]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Retcon the CU? I say raze the CU!

 

I would ditch the CU in its entirety. What purpose does it serve? Does it matter to a 21st century super that the Valdorian Age is in the history books (or not)? Does it make any difference in the Alien Wars era whether or not supers existed in the 21st century? Well, since for all practical purposes they didn't, why bother saying they are in the same universe? Why not just say the Fantasy Hero universe and the Champions universe and the Star Hero universe etc are all separate, or even make them "multiverses"? All the CU apparently does is place limits on the creativity of writers - for although a submission need not conform to the CU, to date, how many have been submitted or published??

 

It strikes me as just a marketing gimmick - one rulebook, one timeline, multiple genres. It shoehorns multiple universes into one, and the result is two feet in one boot - crowded, uncomfortable, and impractical when trying to move forward.

I must agree.

As far as what I'd change in the superhero universe, which is the only part of the CU I'm interested in, I'd get rid of the registration act, change Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania into Millennium City, not Detroit, get rid of the smart roadway system and gates, make massive changes in Washington, add what crossovers seem reasonable, and totally revamp DEMON and VIPER, again.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

I must agree.

As far as what I'd change in the superhero universe, which is the only part of the CU I'm interested in, I'd get rid of the registration act, change Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania into Millennium City, not Detroit, get rid of the smart roadway system and gates, make massive changes in Washington, add what crossovers seem reasonable, and totally revamp DEMON and VIPER, again.

 

Why Pittsburgh?

[Mark Rand]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Why Pittsburgh?

That's where I live, and have for most of my 55 years.

[Susano]

Let's see... revamping the CU.

 

I'd get rid of the meta-timeline and shuffle some of the other settings off to their own timelines. I'd dispense with the ambient magic level being the ruling factor over the presence of superpowers. I'd have more historical supers (going far, far back into history). I'd spread the supers around a bit too, placing more in certain locations (like Australia and the like). I'd remove the cosmology as well, if only because I'm not in the the whole Zoroastrian setting myself. I'd remove some of the megavillains since they seem to overlap a great deal (but then, removing the meta-timeline means no more Takaofanes, so I've got a good start there). Hmm... keep CLOWN out of the CU, keep VIPER in 9and keep them as is -- as bunch of agents), redo the membership of Eurostar (I liked Bora, for example), downpower Dr. Destroyer (he's just too poweful for my tastes), un-destroy Detroit, and trim some of the overly bloodthirsty villains out there. Oh, and place Hudson City into either it's own DC setting, or remove the "unspoken agreement" about "regular" supers going there. Oh, and trim Harbinger down to around 600 points or so (or eliminate him -- I really can't stand him as a character -- either that more make him much more like Batman and less like the Punisher). Finally, develop and present some heroes who are equal to some of the more powerful villains. Sort of the CU analogs to Captain America, Superman, Thor, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, and so on.

 

Oh, and have some alien races with innate superpowers -- much like the Shi'ar and Skrulls and the like.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Retcon?

Add the Geodesics, Zen Team, Flashmen, and Mentallax.

 

 

That's better. Who wants to game?

[Dominique]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Does anyone here know why they dumped some of the old organizations Like Raven and Genocide?

[greypaladin_01]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Well as much as I enjoy using Genocide in my games (and they are still quite active in my CU) there is a certain sillyness to having people willingly join a group by that name. (Not to mention the nightmare of public relations and perception.)

 

"Hello I see that your house was destroyed by those darn dirty (mutant/meta/aliens) I bet you would like to get even."

 

"Yes Sir I would but the police said they would handle it"

 

"I understand but I think that you would fit in well with us and we can guarantee that you would see justice done."

 

"Really?? I'd like to hear more. Who are you again?"

 

"Me, Im with GENOCIDE!"

 

"um...."

[nexus]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Doesn't "Genocide" still exist in a form, but with more PR friendly name and cover organization?

[Chuckg]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Yes, the IHA (Institute for Human Advancement).

[nexus]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Yes' date=' the IHA (Institute for Human Advancement).[/quote']

 

Yes, that's it, thanks! That is one of the CU changes I liked a great deal. I saw a problem with a group picking a name like "Genocide" in the modern world too. The set up in the Fifth makes more sense, IMO.

[assault]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Does anyone here know why they dumped some of the old organizations Like Raven and Genocide?

 

Raven appears to have been dropped because it was seen as redundant. Basically, it was just a copy of VIPER.

 

Now, it's actually perfectly reasonable that VIPER would have competitors and splinter groups, but it seems that the 5th Edition approach seems to favour one group per niche. Even DEMON lost its technological elements.

 

It probably didn't help Raven's cause that it suffered from multiple retcons in earlier editions. One of these turned them into rather buffoonish puppets of VIPER, while the other rather bizarrely crammed them into the street-level genre. Neither of these did them any favours, IMHO.

 

On the other hand, ARGENT seems to be vaguely reminiscent of Raven. I suppose you could think of it as being a continuation of/replacement for Raven in the same way that the IHA replaces/continues Genocide.

 

For what it's worth: I like ARGENT more than VIPER. But I suspect that that will only last until ARGENT gets a full writeup.

[mirage]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

My personal opinion is: I'm not going to use the published storyline.

If the supplements get to a point where they become useless without the storyline/meta-plot ALA CU, I will not use them.

 

I think publishers and writers of gaming supplements need to avoid basing supplements on what they think should happen and what their "pet characters" are going to do. Published NPCs tend to die in my games, why should I kill off a character that I spent hours writing, when I can kill off a character somebody else spend hours writing.

 

Also the fastest way in my game to get the NPCs killes is to make them integral to the meta-plot. Example: Helena from WW's Chicago by Night.

 

What's a good way of keeping NPCs around? Making NPCs that work well with the characters Example: Anabel from WW's Chicago by Night.

 

One of my pet peevs is when the NPC's get all the good stuff and glory and make the world shaking changes. Playing through the Avatar Saga for FR was the was the nail in the coffin. (A nail that started with the Dragonlance Chronicles adventures.)

 

Don't get me wrong, I like published settings. I don't like the settings intertwined with a meta-campaign.

 

What changes would I make?

 

I would let Detroit stay anhilated. And let the world continue to believe that Dr. D. is dead. There would still be bases and weapon systems left in operation, and the Destroyer might return, and he might not. If I were a writer, I would print stats just in case a GM wanted to bring him back.

 

I will begin killing or maiming the Champions, starting with Saphire.

 

Any character without NCM, who got their superhuman stats through training gets either revised, or written out of the continunity. This would be most martial-artists, and Foxbat.

 

Logic: If the ability can be gained though training it is not super-human. Having an ability that exceets NCM without paying double is super-human.

 

I will toss out several of the epic villians, or intorduce them as part of the campaign. Gravitar is goner.

 

Villian organizations do NOT have better trained, more disciplined soldiers than the millitary. Those with the discipline and training are probably ex-millitary. The rest are thugs. Highly trained and organized agents should be few and far between.

 

Organizations like DEMON, and Viper should have reliable means of brainwashing people. Though they may not be able to do so in mass numbers.

 

PSI is way too weak. They should have control of large corporations and massive government influence. The organizations basically sucks and most of the members need to die. Mindslayer for instance, she's just another energy peojector, only her sfx are mental. IMHO her only redeeming characteristic is her fishnets.

 

Magic is not the uber SFX for superpowers. If I want mage-world i'll play mage-world. I want stuff like mutants, and psionics that are definately not magic. Given a character of sufficiently high intelligence they should be able to create, or copy Dr. D's tech.

 

In guidlines I'm writing up characters who want to create advanced tech need a sufficiently high INT. The INT required varies with respect to how advanced the tech is.

 

And those are just the notes off the top of my head.

[Dominique]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

What happened to The Circle and METE?

[assault]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Any character without NCM' date=' who got their superhuman stats through training gets either revised, or written out of the continunity. This would be most martial-artists, and Foxbat.[/quote']

 

Presumably most other characters should have NCM too, or at least something equivalent to it. After all, why would an Energy Projector be able to have a superhuman CON, BOD or COM without any other explanation? Why should a Brick have a superhuman DEX or SPD without a good reason?

 

In fact, every character in the setting should be revised, or written out of the continuity.

[mirage]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Presumably most other characters should have NCM too, or at least something equivalent to it. After all, why would an Energy Projector be able to have a superhuman CON, BOD or COM without any other explanation? Why should a Brick have a superhuman DEX or SPD without a good reason?

 

In fact, every character in the setting should be revised, or written out of the continuity.

 

Why should Energy Projectors, and Bricks have superhuman whatever?

 

Because they're obviously superhuman. Presumably there is a SFX behind why they're superhuman other than "I went to the gym and ate my veggies".

 

Also Brick and Energy Projector are not SFX, nor are the origins, they're vague categories.

[Starlord]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Any character without NCM' date=' who got their superhuman stats through training gets either revised, or written out of the continunity. This would be most martial-artists, and Foxbat.[/quote']

 

Why?

 

I understand that NCM is old topic beaten to death, but 'superhumanly trained' characters are solidly grounded into the genre. I've yet to see a good explanation (other than - I just don't like it - which is fine. Hey, it's your game. ) for why folks feel NCM should be used in the superhero genre. Batman, Shang-Chi, etc., they all perform feats that are superhuman on a regular basis. 'Superhuman training' is just another character origin/background, an integral part of the hand-waving/suspension of belief that is necessary to maintain a superhuman world, similar to comic book physics.

 

PS: Not trying to start another intense debate, just honestly curious.

[Starlord]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Presumably most other characters should have NCM too' date=' or at least something equivalent to it. After all, why would an Energy Projector be able to have a superhuman CON, BOD or COM without any other explanation?[/quote']

 

No reason other than they regular survive attacks that 'realistically' would kill your average joe.

 

Why should a Brick have a superhuman DEX or SPD without a good reason?

Well if you really are looking for an answer, how 'bout this. If someone actually had Hulk's or Thor's strength, then it is quite reasonable to assume their fast or 'snap' reaction muscles should be far greater than yours or mine. Gravity and other things in one's environment that easily affects the average joe, wouldn't bother a Brick character in the least.

[OddHat]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

What happened to The Circle and METE?

 

I loved both these groups; both have made it into my current CU campaign. I don't think DoJ has the rights to them these days.

[Susano]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

I loved both these groups; both have made it into my current CU campaign. I don't think DoJ has the rights to them these days.

 

Yeah, I think these two, along with The Blood, are owned by Aaron Allston.

[OddHat]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

Yeah' date=' I think these two, along with The Blood, are owned by Aaron Allston.[/quote']

 

The Blood is also part of my campaign setting.

 

I'm a traditionalist.

[Susano]

Re: Retcon the CU

 

The Blood is also part of my campaign setting.

 

I'm a traditionalist.

 

For you, Oddhat: