tkdguy Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 http://amethyst-angel.com/cliche.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches The Van Helsing Cliche List at the end was the best part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceTheOwl Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches Van Helsing Rule #14: Cool, creepy art direction and millions of dollars of special effects cannot make up for a script conceived and written by a severely impaired tube worm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches Van Helsing Rule #12: The stroke of midnight can, if the plot calls for it, go on for twenty minutes or more. Hysterical! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamerz123 Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches I like VH rule #10 about the lunar cycle in Eastern Europe being 4 days long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches Huh. I must be watching the wrong movies/reading the wrong books/playing the wrong games. A whole bunch of those were new to me. How'd they get to be cliches? Bill. (Though most of the Van Helsing ones were funny) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches I will say that some of those cliches can still be fun if they're used by a writer with enough imagination and skill. Playing it for fun doesn't hurt, i.e., i.e., Harry Turtledove running out the Civil War in the west in his War in the Provinces series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches Hah, they left one cliche off the Van Helsing list: The one object that can save the hero and doom the villain will not only be kept in the villain's fortress, it will be kept in a high, unlocked tower room of its own, so prominently displayed that the villain might as well hang a neon sign above it that reads "CRITICAL PLOT OBJECT HERE." It will not be lost somewhere in the back of one of the villain's desk drawers, or in a box somewhere in the attic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches Huh. I must be watching the wrong movies/reading the wrong books/playing the wrong games. A whole bunch of those were new to me. How'd they get to be cliches? I agree. And still others seem to me more like famous examples rather than cliches. Just 'cause a single famous book or series uses a plot device, characterization, etc. doesn't make that thing a cliche. I'd be curious to see the same list with examples given of books, movies, etc. that employ each cliche... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches The list does seem to be quite media-centric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches Okay, you guys have defined the problem. Let me suggest the solution- We write our own list. Who wants to start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches 1. A Dark Lord is on the rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches 2. A prophecy foretells of the doom of the Dark Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches 3. When the Dark Lord attempts to forestall the prophecy, he will instead set in motion the events needed to fulfill it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches 4. A generally inexperienced person with no history of adventure will feature prominently in fulfilling this prophecy. Keith "Taking notes for his great American fantasy novel" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches 5. The first named member of the opposite sex this character encounters will end up being all of the below- a) Their true love Blind to their affection - either one to the other, or both at the same time. c) Realise their love when in a difficult circumstance d) Be captured by the Dark Lord, or threatened by the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches 4a. This person will almost always manage to get the mystical whoosywhatsit. Usually there is some utterly contrieved reason why it works for this one person. Blue "Independent? I don't think so." Jogger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches 4a.1 The Magical McGuffin will have no other purpose in its existance but to defeat the Dark Lord. Or will never be used for any other reason. 4a.2 The McGuffin will require a Quest to retrieve, which always involves collecting the correct people for no apparent reason, and travelling across three different climates. 6. Different locations, no matter the climate, will have one unique dominant colour so you can tell they are different locations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches 4a.2 The McGuffin will require a Quest to retrieve' date=' which always involves collecting the correct people for no apparent reason, and travelling across three different climates.[/quote'] 4a.3 The Party on the Quest for the McGuffin will have one person in it who will end up betraying the Party. BTW, has anyone ever read The River of Dancing Gods by Jack Chalker? I vaguely remember that every chapter had a quote from the rulebook that made up the world, a fantasy world of cliches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches That reminds me- 7. Any roleplaying system based on the fiction will not be able to simulate the fiction, or any of the characters in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches 8. characters with no formal combat training will be able to kick unimaginable amounts of *** because they wrestled with their two + older brothers as children. This is even more prevalent with female characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches Agree about that list not really being cliches at all. Not totally convinced by the start of this one either. Is romance, for example, really a subject for fantasy cliche? Most of the fantasy I've read (and I'll admit it isn't a lot - Tolkien, Conan, Fafyrd & GM, some Ursula le Guin, some others I cant recall) tends to avoid the issue to a great extent. As a general cinematic convention of the action-genre, yes, it's probably true. But I'm not sure it's fantasy related. Howabout this though: 9. Black is white, good is good, evil is evil 9a. Except where one or two characters are blatantly self-interested, bad guys with a desire for redemption or good guys with a nasty streak - just to "prove" that there are moral shades of grey in the world, honest. 10. There are few problems that smacking someone or something often enough with a big sword can't fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant for Hire Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches Actually, one of the recent Hugo winners was the book "Paladin of Souls" by Lois McMaster Bujold. It is notable in that it breaks just about every cliche about the protagonist. The protagonist is not a young farmboy/girl, but instead a forty year old widow. She is not of humble birth and ascends to the throne at the start of the book. In fact she starts out the book as the dowager queen of the land, her daughter having recently ascended to the throne, and frankly she's happy to be quit of the palace and has zero desire of ever returning. Admittedly, it is sort of a sequel to "The Curse of Chalion" but only very loosely. Very few characters from the first book appear in the second book and none of the leading characters of the first book appear, though a few are referenced. The third book in the series is set in the same universe, and there will be two more, though if either of the last two books have anything to do with the previous three, it's rather dubious at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches 11. Despite what any female non-main character is like, or how she is stereotyped - the female main character will be an uberfemale. Any perceived female stereotypical weakness will not only be a strength in the main character, it will also far exceed the ability of any male. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Re: Fantasy Cliches Actually, one of the recent Hugo winners was the book "Paladin of Souls" by Lois McMaster Bujold. It is notable in that it breaks just about every cliche about the protagonist. My least favourite of her books. The main character is handed help by the Gods every single time she asks for it. There's no struggle - we never need fear for her safety, a God will always be nearby to help her out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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