THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Apologies if anyone has mentioned this already, but a discussion of how extreme speeds link in with the person's senses would be useful. eg. when you're travelling at Megascale x 10,000 km velocities, how much megascale eyesight do you need to function, and how much detail of the scenery along the way can you pick out?

 

[Thinking on it, I hate the idea of "You bought MS Flight, but not MS Sight, so you can't see when you're flying" - powers should be independent - but maybe that lack of MS Sight means you can't discern the scenery as you go, and if you had 10,000 x KM MS Sight and Hearing, you could see the gunmen and hear "bank" as you zipped by. IOW, you'd need MS senses to duplicate the Flash stunt of finding the bomb in an instant - without it, you'd run past it and never know.]

[megaplayboy]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Apologies if anyone has mentioned this already, but a discussion of how extreme speeds link in with the person's senses would be useful. eg. when you're travelling at Megascale x 10,000 km velocities, how much megascale eyesight do you need to function, and how much detail of the scenery along the way can you pick out?

 

[Thinking on it, I hate the idea of "You bought MS Flight, but not MS Sight, so you can't see when you're flying" - powers should be independent - but maybe that lack of MS Sight means you can't discern the scenery as you go, and if you had 10,000 x KM MS Sight and Hearing, you could see the gunmen and hear "bank" as you zipped by. IOW, you'd need MS senses to duplicate the Flash stunt of finding the bomb in an instant - without it, you'd run past it and never know.]

That's probably more a matter of the "rapid" sense adder rather than megascale sight. If you have rapid sight and hearing at the appropriate level(x10000?), you can see bullets crawl slowly towards their targets, and probably catch a tiny snippet of speech as you zip by.

[ghost-angel]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I want to see an expanded write up of exactly what "Movement as another Movement" means, how it can be used, etc...

[Thia Halmades]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Er, sorry, late. *checks watch, taps it twice. Shrugs*

 

Don't know if this was covered, but if you're going to make an argument for "more SPD over 12" than it seems to be fairly simple. You overlay SPD charts. To give an example:

 

On SPD 15, You move on 4, 8 & 12. Ahead of everyone else. You're moving so fast that no one else has a chance to react yet. Ever. Not totally unlike your current SPD of 12 - the most someone can do is abort while you're flying around, smacking them about the head and neck.

 

The other version (the closer to d20 version, although the result tends to be the same) is that as you count down the SPD chart you use the same structure, but the 12+ Speedster takes his iteritive attacks after normal people have had a chance to move (and possibly contain, see Teen Titans, Kid Flash).

 

The third version is similar to what was posted above; a series of iteritive attacks that occur "in time" with the boosted line. So if you have SPD 15 (to stay consistent) you would effectively "move twice" on 4, 8 & 12; once ahead of everyone else, and again after everyone else.

 

On Segment 4, your DEX 25 goes first; everyone else gets DEX 24-1. Now, prior to Segment 5, you get another full, normal phase in which to act. You could also make this "more reasonable" as a half-phase for every step beyond until you get into SPDs of "What?" So if you have a SPD of 24, you would get 1 1/2 phases in every segment. At 25 SPD, normal full speed, an additional half-phase on every Segment, and on Segment 7, two full complete moves.

 

Some thoughts.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Oh. And I've love to see what all those groovy variations on "Haste" do in a Fantasy setting, and how to build a truly stupid-fast archer, swordsman, etc. within genre conventions.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Apologies if anyone has mentioned this already, but a discussion of how extreme speeds link in with the person's senses would be useful. eg. when you're travelling at Megascale x 10,000 km velocities, how much megascale eyesight do you need to function, and how much detail of the scenery along the way can you pick out?

 

Well, that's already covered in some detail on 5ER 264. Is there something else you think needs to be covered on this subject?

[SuperKlaus]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Couldn't bouncing as a form of movement be Flight with Must Land Each Phase (-1/2) and RSR: Acrobatics? You can turn as much as you please with Flight. The RSR could include an agreement with the GM that you need surfaces to bounce off of.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Well' date=' that's already covered in some detail on 5ER 264. Is there something else you think needs to be covered on this subject?[/quote']

 

I'd like to see the sensory issue analyzed - the "search" issue, for example. Yes, you can run into every house in town in 1 phase using your MegaSpeed, but what does it take to be able to discern which one has the bomb. You can run around the planet three times in 10 seconds, but can you tell when you pass a bank robbery in progress, or are you going so fast you literally can't see what's going on around you?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Hugh Neilson - nice one, hadn't thought of that, although I've seen The Flash do it a gazillion times (usually with his mouth running). "Not here!" (zip) "Nope!" (zip) "Not here, either!" (zip)

 

Shoot. I'd buy the book just because my brain doesn't do "Speedster" well at all.

[Guest Suleyman Rashid]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Hugh Neilson - nice one, hadn't thought of that, although I've seen The Flash do it a gazillion times (usually with his mouth running). "Not here!" (zip) "Nope!" (zip) "Not here, either!" (zip)

 

Shoot. I'd buy the book just because my brain doesn't do "Speedster" well at all.

 

 

Would an appropriately built Detect work?

[Bloodstone]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Detect "who or what ever the hell I'm searching for at any given moment"...?

 

That's rather open ended...

[Karmakaze]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Would an appropriately built Detect work?

 

When you're looking for a specific person, Mind Scan can almost work as a model... I'm less sure about looking for things....

[Gary]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Speed greater than 12 is a must (My house rule on it is you get to go a second time in the phases someone with 12 less speed goes in, but only after everyone goes through the dex sequence 1 time)

 

It's easy to switch to a 24 segment turn if Speeds greater than 12 are involved.

 

1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24
1																								x
2												x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x
3								x	x	x	x					x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x
4						x	x					x	x	x	x			x	x	x	x	x	x	x
5					x										x	x	x			x	x	x	x	x
6				x				x	x	x	x	x	x	x		x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x
7														x	x			x	x		x	x	x	x
8			x			x	x				x	x	x		x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x
9								x	x	x				x		x	x		x	x		x	x	x
10					x						x	x	x		x		x	x		x	x	x	x	x
11														x		x		x	x	x	x	x	x	x
12		x		x		x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x
13	x												x		x		x		x		x		x	x
14										x	x	x		x		x		x	x	x	x	x	x	x
15					x		x	x	x				x		x	x	x	x		x	x	x	x	x
16			x			x				x	x	x		x	x		x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x
17													x			x	x		x	x		x	x	x
18				x			x	x	x	x	x	x		x	x	x		x	x	x	x	x	x	x
19													x	x	x		x	x	x		x	x	x	x
20					x	x			x	x	x	x				x	x	x		x	x	x	x	x
21							x	x					x	x	x	x			x	x	x	x	x	x
22									x	x	x	x					x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x
23													x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x
24		x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x	x

 

However, you would have to decide upon 2 options.

 

1) Each segment is 1/2 second rather than a full second.

 

2) Each segment is a full second, but the turn is 24 seconds long.

 

Either option comes with its own array of potential problems.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Couldn't bouncing as a form of movement be Flight with Must Land Each Phase (-1/2) and RSR: Acrobatics? You can turn as much as you please with Flight. The RSR could include an agreement with the GM that you need surfaces to bounce off of.

That's not a bad way of modeling it either. The one part that's hard to work out (using any build) is how to represent the ability to bounce off an object in mid-move.

[Guest Suleyman Rashid]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

That's not a bad way of modeling it either. The one part that's hard to work out (using any build) is how to represent the ability to bounce off an object in mid-move.

 

Autofire?

[Gary]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

That's not a bad way of modeling it either. The one part that's hard to work out (using any build) is how to represent the ability to bounce off an object in mid-move.

 

 

Special Effect of a Moveby. If you can do damage to multiple targets, then it would be a Multiple Moveby.

[Lycanthrope]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Perhaps something on chases and races and blurry combat (especially for super-speedsters).

 

* Chases: There's a lot of good stuff for vehicles that may optionally be valuable / generalizable for very fast non-vehicular pursuits; skill vs skill checks and consideration for actively trying to avoid pursuit with obstuctions, double backs, zigs & zags, etc.

 

* Races: Something that brings more drama to the mechanics - more than (SPD A x Movement A) vs (SPD B x Movement ; maybe something with skill checks and consideration for the difficulty of the course they are traversing

 

* Combat: Specifically, something that covers (and makes manageable) super-speedsters threading in and out of downtown buildings, taking shots/punches at each other; maybe something similar to dog-fighting-esque rules

[rjcurrie]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Road Runner! From the Cartoon Hero genre . . .

 

Funny that you should mention the Road Runner. Several years, when Marc Blumberg was writing the original version of Ultimate Speedster (it was originally contracted for 4th Edition), he and Drew Novick ran Saturday Morning Cartoon Hero (based on the classic WB toons) at GenCon. While I never saw the actual write-up for the Road Runner (who was one of the PCs), it apparently made use of several of the ideas Marc had for Ultimate Speedster.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Uh...am I the only person who sees NO need for SPD value over 12? I mean your fastest martial artists can be amply demonstrated with 6 or 7 SPD in my view. That still leaves 5 more points of SPD. Adding SPDs above 12 will just make Hero more power gamey than it needs to be. IMO

 

Rob

[JmOz]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Uh...am I the only person who sees NO need for SPD value over 12? I mean your fastest martial artists can be amply demonstrated with 6 or 7 SPD in my view. That still leaves 5 more points of SPD. Adding SPDs above 12 will just make Hero more power gamey than it needs to be. IMO

 

Rob

 

Personaly:

 

I have had the house rule i stated above for 3 years and never had to use it.

 

Having said that, I think that one reason it sticks out to me is the fact that it is the ONLY Characteristic, and one of the few abilities that has a max buy, everythinge that does have a max is because it is an absolute (life support, desolid, etc...), so I want the option open to me, even if it will never come up in my game I feel the option should be offered, especialy in a book that bills itself as the ULTIMATE GUIDE TO SPEEDSTERS...

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

For a fantasy speedster, there's Achilles.

 

I'd like to see a complete coverage of Swinging - the forgotten movement power - completely left out of the Movement section in FREd and the BBB (don't know about 5ER).

 

I'd like to see options for greater granularity in SPD. Like the table Gary posted. I've been using something like this for years. I'd like to see it given official sanction, or some other method suggested. The basic idea of my method (and apparently Gary's) is that SPD is the number of actions you get in X seconds. X is normally 12. But it is easily changed to 24, 36, or my favorite 60. if X=60, SPD is how many phases you get in a minute. It's = current SPD x 5. Base = 5+(DEX/2). This way, instead of having a bunch of heroic-level characters with either 2, 3, or 4 SPD, they can vary a bit more with a continuous range of 10-20. A turn is still 12 segments (seconds) and you still get free recoveries every 12 seconds. It's just that your SPD represents phases/5 turns.

 

Also I'd like to see coverage of the harder physics of movement:

* More realistic acceleration/deceleration options

* other effects like sonic booms and relativity

* more detailed rules on maneauverability (optional, but provided)

* More on 3-D movement

 

And of course non-klunky ways to do the standard speedster tricks like cleaning the house in two seconds, reading all the books in the library in one minute, etc., - i.e., doing stuff really fast that doesn't necessarily involve movement.

[ghost-angel]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Bouncing:

 

Flight; No Turn Mode; Must 'touch' a Surface to change direction.

 

No you can move your full move in a phase (or a half move, or however much you want to move) and you have to "bounce" off objects to change direction.

 

I would define 'touch' as entering the hex where the object is, SFX can take care of bouncing off it to move in another direction.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Here's a couple of things I'd like to see...

 

1. Expanded discussion and optional rules around using the SPD Characteristic in ways beyond its basic usage. This might include some kind of optional rules for SPD values over 12, but I'm also thinking about things like "Extra SPD, only for doing X", or the ability to buy extra SPD (probably on the individual Phase level) with Limitations (or possibly Advantages) to simulate various SFX. For example, a superheroic speedster might be able to take an Action Phase on a Segment he doesn't normally go on, if he "pushes his superspeed" by expending a bunch of END or whatever. How could this be purchased and how would it work? That kind of thing.

 

2. One thing I think makes superheroic speedsters so much fun is that the "superspeed" special effect can be used to justify almost any Power... heck, maybe all of them. I know the character building chapter will go into more detail on the most common applications of superspeed and movement-based SFX with regard to various Powers, but I think it would be a hoot, and a fun exercise, to see a quick-and-dirty list (maybe just a two-facing-pages table in an appendix or something) of every Power, and a one-liner description of a speed-based special effect that could justify that Power. You might even be able to do this with every Skill and every Talent.

[Warp9]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Some way to have characters who have ridiculous levels of speed be able to use it in combat - no "I can break the light barrier, but only have 20" combat movement".

 

I really would like that dilemma solved.

I definitely agree with WhammeWhamme on this point.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Uh...am I the only person who sees NO need for SPD value over 12? I mean your fastest martial artists can be amply demonstrated with 6 or 7 SPD in my view. That still leaves 5 more points of SPD. Adding SPDs above 12 will just make Hero more power gamey than it needs to be. IMO

 

Rob

I've used it mainly with Computers rather than Speedsters. I only bring it up here because TUS seems like a more appropriate place to originate the rule than TUA.