FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

[Steve]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

You have a point about people being able to make life choices' date=' but that's countered by, in Traveller and Classic Battletech, being part of a military organization that frequently takes those choices away. Being in the military, you go where they tell you to go, learn what they tell you to learn, do what they tell you to do, and occasionally get killed on their behalf.[/quote']

 

Occasionally? I can remember once going through fourteen characters in a single afternoon during character creation in Traveller. In fact, that game is the only one I am aware of where you can die before ever completing the creation process.

 

High Guard PCs... the few... the proud... the dead.

 

At least in Mekton, you could go through the life path charts and not get killed.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

I've always house-ruled Traveller's chargen to say that when you "die" in character creation, you actually muster out of the service...medical discharge, or your MOS is overstrength and you're cut for cost-cutting purposes, etc.

 

I mean, there's no real way in-game to improve your character's skills. There's no reason for everyone to make one or two rolls on the career tables and then get out before they've pushed their luck too far. It would be like playing D&D and never getting past 3rd level.

 

EDIT: For the record, I think random tables can be a creative aid to a background, but I'd prefer not to be limited by them.

[Lucius]

FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

Sure there are variances - but we have house rules to account for that in written games anyway. For that matter' date=' that little proofreading error "% Liar" in the first D&D books caused a schism of its own...[/quote']

 

That sounds familiar…please refresh my memory?

 

Do you really want me to tell you what the favored weapon of Aphrodite is? Bow-chicka-wow-wow!

 

That would be the Cestus, actually…

 

Lucius Alexander

 

"I move my unit of Glaive-guisarme-fauchard-forkmen into place"

 

The palindromedary begins quietly chanting in harmony with itself: Glaive, glaive, glaive, glaive….

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

That sounds familiar…please refresh my memory?

 

This goes back a few editions, obviously. Earlier editions had each monster given a percentage chance they would be in their lair, where they would have their treasure. However, the very first edition misspelled "lair" as "liar", and diodn't really explain the purpose of that attribute. Some groups interpreted it as the chance the creature in question was less than honest and forthright.

[casualplayer]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

That would be the Cestus' date=' actually…[/quote']

 

Actually I knew that, and I hope someone who was offering half a pomegranite to Hades soon wasn't offended by my joke.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

I don't recall if this was mentioned.

 

Characters are built around a core of random dice rolls to determine their abilities. You are limited in your selection of abilities and classes and have to conceptualize around what the dice give you.

 

As early as 1st Ed , there were rules to allow you to rearrange stats, trade off stats, and (in a later supplement) skew the odds of which stats would be higher or lower.

 

3rd Ed introduced an optional "build stats with points" approach that most groups I see now use. The issue most took with random stats was less that of constraining character choices and more fairness to all players, rather than letting the guy with lucky rolls have a significant advantage over the guy with "dice curse" that evening.

 

Actually, the fact that sucess or failure is influenced significantly (or primarily) with a random roll could also be considered a D&Dism.

 

Every game has to draw a line where "mechaniocs" override "Choice". In Hero, despite all the choices, I'm sure we've all come up with character concepts that just weren't viable at starting point levels. In a game based purely on storytelling, all those abilities could be written in to the background.

[casualplayer]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

Old school and phased out now but how about;

 

N+1) Experience accrues more rapidly to the person with an 18 in the primary stat of their class.

[Korvar]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

Old school and phased out now but how about;

 

N+1) Experience accrues more rapidly to the person with an 18 in the primary stat of their class.

 

16, wasn't it?

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

Two opposite viewpoints: (n) it can be a great aid to creativity' date=' and (n+1) from a simmy standpoint, we hardly ever get to choose our own backgrounds.[/quote']

N - that's true, and it can be a useful method to fill in the background details that you don't want to decide for yourself.

N+1 - "We" the RW people don't, but in all fiction, all source material, character backgrounds are chosen.

 

I remember even in D&D, seeing random tables to determine social class, number of siblings, birth order, handedness, even your name! Though these weren't all "official/core" rules.

 

And a related item that also makes little-to-no-sense when you think about it:

 

Random generation of magic items -

 

"The book says that this small band of low-level monsters has a 3% chance of having a magic item in their lair. Oh! They have one! Which one? 'The Wand of Orcus' it is then."

[Steve]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

And a related item that also makes little-to-no-sense when you think about it:

 

Random generation of magic items -

 

"The book says that this small band of low-level monsters has a 3% chance of having a magic item in their lair. Oh! They have one! Which one? 'The Wand of Orcus' it is then."

 

Something like that worked in "The Lord of the Rings."

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

Something like that worked in "The Lord of the Rings."

But JRRT didn't determine it randomly.

[casualplayer]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

16' date=' wasn't it?[/quote']

 

Wasn't it something like 5% bonus for 16-17 and 10% bonus for 18? It's been awhile.

[Drhoz]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

"The book says that this small band of low-level monsters has a 3% chance of having a magic item in their lair. Oh! They have one! Which one?

 

they can't have it! It got erased from reality along with Vitus's homeworld!

[BlackSword]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

N+1 - "We" the RW people don't, but in all fiction, all source material, character backgrounds are chosen.

By using that line of logic PCs get no choices. The GM writes the story, tells the player what happened, and then everyone goes home. That how the source material works.

But JRRT didn't determine it randomly.

True, but if Bilbo had failed his PER roll it would have been a much shorter adventure, and LotR would have a very different plot.

 

The random generation tables do remind me of one D&Dism that drives me nuts:

 

n) Loot based economy. The vast majority of wealth is based in magic weapons, armor and equipment. In order to gain wealth you must kill things and take their stuff©.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

Books are books. Games are games. The latter divides the creeation chore between players and GM. The former places all the power in the hands of the author. With this in mind, one can interpret "how things happen in the book" many different ways.

 

N - that's true, and it can be a useful method to fill in the background details that you don't want to decide for yourself.

N+1 - "We" the RW people don't, but in all fiction, all source material, character backgrounds are chosen.

 

I remember even in D&D, seeing random tables to determine social class, number of siblings, birth order, handedness, even your name! Though these weren't all "official/core" rules.

 

They aren't chosen by the character. They are chosen by the writer. Note that the writer can also go back after the adventure and modify it because he's decided this would work better if we have a family member involved in Chapter 17, so back in Chapter 2 we'll mention the protaganist's uncle. RetCon's should be allowed without limit until the story is published, since that's the way it works in the source material.

 

Phil, would you say that, to be true to the source material, the player should get to decide whether his attacks hit or miss, whether his opponent's attacks hit or miss, and the damage done when an attack hits or misses? The author makes al these decisions in the source material. In the source material, whether any character succeeds or fails at any task, and the results of such success, are determined by the writer. As such, I would say it is no more (or less) correect to say that random determination of one's background is a departure from the source material than it is to say that random determination of whether an attack hits or misses is a departure from the source material.

 

If we are to be true to the source material, based on the authors making all decisions consciously and deliberately, nothing should ever hapen at random. We need to divide up the decisionmaking power between the players and the GM (this becomes a collaborative novel, rather than one with a single author), but all decisions should be made by consensus, not random chance.

[Kristopher]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

IMO, there's a difference between random combat and skill attempt resolution on one hand, and random character background determination on the other.

[BlackSword]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

IMO' date=' there's a difference between random combat and skill attempt resolution on one hand, and random character background determination on the other.[/quote']

I played in a few games where we used a random background generator. I choose female, rolled middle child, noble family, mid to low COM equivalant, and a few other things. I was traveling with thugs. Well what can I do with that? Not the prettiest girl, she never got into playing with dolls and dresses, instead she spent her time as a tomboy and trying to compete with her brothers. Her father didn't approve, she didn't want to be married off, so she grabbed a sword, ran away from home and took to the open road to earn her own way and perhaps her father's respect as a warrior.

 

I look at it as a tool, it can be used to make a quick and dirty character background, spur creation, and can be used or not used as the players wish. Heck, Champions has a random plot generator.

[Curufea]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

IMO' date=' there's a difference between random combat and skill attempt resolution on one hand, and random character background determination on the other.[/quote']

 

That being said in storytelling, narrative and GM-less games - there are systems where the players determine if they hit or miss in a non-random manner. There are also systems where the players have exactly as much control over plot as the GM ("...in spaaace!" is one such system).

 

Roleplaying need not use random determining factors.

[Lucius]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

Actually I knew that' date=' and I hope someone who was offering half a pomegranite to Hades soon wasn't offended by my joke.[/quote']

 

And I hope Aphrodite wasn't offended by mine...

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary stands on the threshold and invokes Janus

[Adventus]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

Not the prettiest girl, she never got into playing with dolls and dresses, instead she spent her time as a tomboy and trying to compete with her brothers. Her father didn't approve, she didn't want to be married off, so she grabbed a sword, ran away from home and took to the open road to earn her own way and perhaps her father's respect as a warrior.

 

The very plot of The Deeds of Paksennarion! And we all know what she did with that character

[BlackSword]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

The very plot of The Deeds of Paksennarion! And we all know what she did with that character

Not all of us.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

By using that line of logic PCs get no choices. The GM writes the story' date=' tells the player what happened, and then everyone goes home. That how the source material works. [/quote']

You've never had characters in something you're writing wander off to do something you don't want them to, and make the story turn out a different way than you'd planned?

 

Hmm. Maybe it's time to go back on my meds.

[Curufea]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

You've never had characters in something you're writing wander off to do something you don't want them to, and make the story turn out a different way than you'd planned?

 

Hmm. Maybe it's time to go back on my meds.

 

Nah - that frequently happens to writers.

 

Roleplaying is generally somewhere between collaborative storytelling and playing a social game with rules.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

"The characters don't always tell me what they are going to do." -Lynn Johnston, creator of For Better Or For Worse

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

You've never had characters in something you're writing wander off to do something you don't want them to' date=' and make the story turn out a different way than you'd planned?[/quote']

 

Happens to me all the time when I write fiction. There were certainly times when I didn't plot out for characters to do very important things to the story that they ended up doing, like falling in love.

 

Hmm. Maybe it's time to go back on my meds.

 

Oy vey, the stories I could tell....