How would Stronghold imprison your character?

[Dr Archeville]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

Artemis' date=' the problem is capturing her in the first place. And even if you do surgery to remove her node(Aberrant)....she's got enough regen and stamina to regrow it in short order. Plus, Shapeshifter and Animal Control. Hot sleep would likely be their best bet, followed by mind control.[/quote']

I thought an Aberrant that had their Node removed instantly lost all powers, including any regeneration which "should" let the Node regrow?

[Amused]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

Tamlyn's would be fairly easy. Teleportation suppression and don't let the guards within touching distance of her (and warn them that she is a shapeshifter). Of course, the first time if she really wanted out, she would find a way to kill herself and wake up in the morgue, but that trick would only work once I suspect.

 

Gwendolyn would be easy as well, just take away all of her foci.

[Metaphysician]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

I thought an Aberrant that had their Node removed instantly lost all powers' date=' including any regeneration which "should" let the Node regrow?[/quote']

 

Nope. Canon is vague, but generally, it either does nothing, or it instantly kills the nova. Usually the former.

[transmetahuman]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

...(or lacking the technology' date=' simply a visor that obliges him to hear and see an endless rerun of soap-operas, that would be rather despair-inducing, too ). If the latter is ruled to be cruel and unusual, hot sleep.[/quote']Bwahaha... I'd love to watch the judge that has to explain her ruling that the former is more so than the latter. Not that I'm necessarily disagreeing, mind you.

[sinanju]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

Any cell designed to hold a very strong brick would hold Iron Maiden. She's incredibly hard to hurt but not nearly as strong as she is tough. Ditto for Man-Ape.

 

Hell's Angel would require a cell capable of resisting her ability to 'tunnel' through extremely high DEF barriers with with "blowtorch" schtick.

 

Black Mask is a Matrix-style martial artist, so he'd be extremely hard to catch in the first place. But if you manage that, a brick-proof cell and lots of careful observation would do.

 

Wednesday would be almost impossible to hold short of outsourcing to a mystic of some sort. Her reality-warping ability explicitly includes the ability to create doors and windows anywhere she wants, or to simply teleport if she wants. To say nothing of the way people conveniently appear with just what she wants to needs when she wants or needs it--including a pardon from the Governor, as like as not.

[Dr Archeville]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

Nope. Canon is vague' date=' but generally, it either does nothing, or it instantly kills the nova. Usually the former.[/quote']

Hunh. Weird.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

They would just need to make sure that he (Hyper-Man) is not given any sugar, caffeine or any other stimulants that his brain needs to initiate the transformation from a normal kid into his powered form.

 

If still powered when initially incarcerated a cell designed to hold a brick and speedster should do fine.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

They would just need to make sure that he (Hyper-Man) is not given any sugar' date=' caffeine or any other stimulants that his brain needs to initiate the transformation from a normal kid into his powered form. [/quote']

That sounds cruel and unusual to me.

[Wanderer]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

Bwahaha... I'd love to watch the judge that has to explain her ruling that the former is more so than the latter. Not that I'm necessarily disagreeing' date=' mind you. [/quote']

 

:lol: Yes. However, for the record I was referring to the fact that is likely rather less cruel to keep someone heavily sedated than awake and in a perpetual artificial state of fear, doubt, or despair.

[Blue]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

Uncle Slam - if inturred, he'd never try to escape. He's all about law and order. But they'd likely put him in a hannibal-lechter-like cell that they'd never be sure could hold him because he'd never test it.

 

Anthem - A regular jail cell would work. They'd just want to be beyond arm's reach if she ever needed to escape since she's a martial artist. And they'd never let her use anything metal (because she could throw it as a weapon). So plastic forks and paper plates.

 

Audra Blue - Since she's afraid to leave her base and would go catatonic, they'd just put her in a straight-jacket and cart her off to the asylum.

[BcAugust]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

Hunh. Weird.

 

Yeah. The thing is, there's a note in one of the books about several Aberrants regrowing their node after removal, aka, why they have their prison. Given the general powerlevel, and the fact Artemis tends to have all the regen, stamina, and even healing, I figured she probably qualifies for that. Oh, and the extra health levels and so on....

[Metaphysician]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

Yeah. The thing is' date=' there's a note in one of the books about several Aberrants regrowing their node after removal, aka, why they have [i']their[/i] prison. Given the general powerlevel, and the fact Artemis tends to have all the regen, stamina, and even healing, I figured she probably qualifies for that. Oh, and the extra health levels and so on....

 

Not to mention the side issue: even if she's somehow drained of all quantum points, she could *still* probably activate all her major powers by burning a couple health levels, and still be more than healthy enough to smash her way to freedom.

 

Anyway. . .

 

Microman II: Some kind of electromagnetic override could keep him contained, and immobile. Beyond that, there's not much that'd be feasible. I seriously doubt Stronghold has adequate tech to stop a microverse-level shrinker.

 

Diomedes: whatever gets used as ultra maximum security containment for nonpowered types would work for him, at least for a while. This is presuming that Athena didn't decide she needed him free, now.

 

Hermes: Keep him drained 24/7, keep him from being able to move, keep him from being able to see anything technological. That would probably do it. Unless he gets so desperate that he does something horrible to time. . .

 

Mereneptah: Draining him dry wouldn't be good enough, whatever containments measures have to keep him from actively using his powers at all. And don't talk to him, *ever*.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

Hmmm... I once had a prison in a game that was designed to hold supers. Most prisoners were fairly easy to contain simply by putting them in air compression cells. Slowly increase the air pressure to several dozen atmospheres then let 'em try to break out. As soon as they puncture their cell walls, explosive decompression happens. If that doesn't kill 'em (sprayed around the room like a shook up sod-pop) they'll have a hideous case of the bends. That slows most of them down enough for other means to be employed to restrain them.

 

Of course, people with "pressure" life support were immune. Almost everyone else had issues. One teleporter that tried to escape splattered like a big red water balloon (this happened right before he was supposed to testify against a big baddy... hmmm).

 

Keeping prisoners in place with the bends is an interesting take, but I doubt it would fly anywhere in the Western world. Too many possibilities that something would go wrong and unnecessarily endanger the prisoner.

[Pyre-Archer]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

Pyre Archer - Magically powered flame blaster. As long as he didn't dump any XP into a magical power pool, a conventional anti-flame blaster cell would do.

 

The Musketeer - Psychokinetic blaster. Bit more conventional any anti-psi tactics would work here. And given his somewhat extreme stance regarding the IHA, I could easily see him winding up in there.

 

Fairly straightforward builds both, and both easy to subdue if necessary.

[phydaux]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

Quazar - Take away his Power Armor. Then he's just a normal person, other than being a high-tech genius who is blind without his glasses.

 

Shadowhunter - Take away his gadgets. But then he's still an ass-kicking martial artist with a long list of skills and an even longer list of enemies. So he'd need 24/7 lockdown.

 

Mystica - I'm sure Stronghold has some kind of magic-dampening technology. 'Cause if they don't she has both Teleport and Intangible in her Multipower....

[Querysphinx]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

Keeping prisoners in place with the bends is an interesting take' date=' but I doubt it would fly anywhere in the Western world. Too many possibilities that something would go wrong and unnecessarily endanger the prisoner.[/quote']

 

I don't see why not. In a prison system, you're allowed (actually you're required)to use however much force it takes to restrain an inmate. When I came up with that prison, I was working on the following assumptions. Supertech is mostly unobtainable. It's either too rare, too fragile, or too expensive to be used in the penal setting.

 

Imagine this scenario:

Director of Prisons: "Congressman we have three options. One, we can let Mega-Bad go. Two, we can spend a few million dollars of taxpayer money and do research for a couple of years to come up with a way to neutralize his specific powers. Three, we can chuck him in a pressure cell, which we can afford and which we know works."

Congressman: "Couldn't he get hurt in a pressure cell?"

Director of Prisons: "Only if he tries to break out of it. Just like any inmate can get killed if they run when the tower guard says 'stop,' or when they try to climb the electric fence."

Congressman: "People will say this is cruel and unusual."

Director of Prisons: "Not if we apply the same techniques to everyone. Unusual means not ordinary. Cruel means force beyond that which is required to get the job done. It doesn't mean, if you can't tie his wrists with spaghetti noodles, don't even try."

Congressman:"Could his powers be specifically neutralized."

Director of Prisons shrugs: "Maybe. Maybe not. We won't know until we do research. It will cost money and it could take years. The thing is, we'll have to do research on every single super human prisoner who comes into the system. And we'll have to pay superhuman guards to sit on them until we can determine if their power can be neutralized. Wouldn't you rather spend that money on your district?"

 

The govt. would almost certainly come up with some sort of one-size-fits all solution to housing super criminals. The alternative is just too expensive.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

The last game I played in was a no limits Cosmic game.

 

I played Thanos/Vecna amalgam.

 

If he chose to allow himself to be taken captive he would turn the prison into a charnal house of slaughter and mahem before leaving a smoking ruin.

 

TB

[Captain Obvious]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

I don't see why not. In a prison system' date=' you're allowed (actually you're [b']required[/b])to use however much force it takes to restrain an inmate. When I came up with that prison, I was working on the following assumptions. Supertech is mostly unobtainable. It's either too rare, too fragile, or too expensive to be used in the penal setting.

 

Imagine this scenario:

Director of Prisons: "Congressman we have three options. One, we can let Mega-Bad go. Two, we can spend a few million dollars of taxpayer money and do research for a couple of years to come up with a way to neutralize his specific powers. Three, we can chuck him in a pressure cell, which we can afford and which we know works."

Congressman: "Couldn't he get hurt in a pressure cell?"

Director of Prisons: "Only if he tries to break out of it. Just like any inmate can get killed if they run when the tower guard says 'stop,' or when they try to climb the electric fence."

Congressman: "People will say this is cruel and unusual."

Director of Prisons: "Not if we apply the same techniques to everyone. Unusual means not ordinary. Cruel means force beyond that which is required to get the job done. It doesn't mean, if you can't tie his wrists with spaghetti noodles, don't even try."

Congressman:"Could his powers be specifically neutralized."

Director of Prisons shrugs: "Maybe. Maybe not. We won't know until we do research. It will cost money and it could take years. The thing is, we'll have to do research on every single super human prisoner who comes into the system. And we'll have to pay superhuman guards to sit on them until we can determine if their power can be neutralized. Wouldn't you rather spend that money on your district?"

 

The govt. would almost certainly come up with some sort of one-size-fits all solution to housing super criminals. The alternative is just too expensive.

 

What I was thinking about wasn't so much what happens when an inmate tries to escape. Escapees are routinely shot at anyway. A more likely chance of death isn't that big a change, especially for a dangerous criminal.

 

What I was thinking about was, what happens in an emergency? What happens when Roid Rager's heart finally goes out on him in a pressure cell? You can't just open it up and go in with the medics, or he'll die from the bends. What happens when there's a fire and the prison has to be evacuated? I'm sure regular prisons have protocols for that, but you can't just pop someone out of a pressure cell for evacuation. What about an earthquake? If a pressure cell cracks, the inmate dies, and the cell itself will probably blow like a bomb, damaging other cells and endangering the guards as well.

 

This might be used as a stop-gap measure, but the civil liberties people will never let it go on in the Western world. And of course, China would just use a pressure cell as an execution method for those villains too tough for a bullet.

[Querysphinx]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

What I was thinking about wasn't so much what happens when an inmate tries to escape. Escapees are routinely shot at anyway. A more likely chance of death isn't that big a change, especially for a dangerous criminal.

 

What I was thinking about was, what happens in an emergency? What happens when Roid Rager's heart finally goes out on him in a pressure cell? You can't just open it up and go in with the medics, or he'll die from the bends. What happens when there's a fire and the prison has to be evacuated? I'm sure regular prisons have protocols for that, but you can't just pop someone out of a pressure cell for evacuation. What about an earthquake? If a pressure cell cracks, the inmate dies, and the cell itself will probably blow like a bomb, damaging other cells and endangering the guards as well.

 

This might be used as a stop-gap measure, but the civil liberties people will never let it go on in the Western world. And of course, China would just use a pressure cell as an execution method for those villains too tough for a bullet.

 

 

There is a certain risk inherent in being locked up. The question becomes, is there any better way to lock up supers that doesn't place an undue burden on the state? Inmate rights cannot and will not override public safety. Nor can the state be required to bankrupt itself to keep inmates in the style to which they are accustomed. As long as the pressure prison (or any special uses facility) could pass ACA accreditation and a yearly audit, it would be safe from lawsuits based on anything but staff negligence and/or malice.

 

Lawyer: "An Earthquake happened and my client's cell blew up. We'll be suing you for billions."

 

Director of Prisons: "Go right ahead. The facility passed its ACA audit last month. You won't be getting a penny."

 

Prisons in general do have issues dealing with things like fires. At the facility where I work, we can evacuate inmates into a yard if their building somehow catches fire. Of course their building is made of concrete, and it's chances of catching on fire are somewhere between slim and none.

 

Getting fire trucks into the facility, on the other hand, can take up to half an hour. Does that constitute a breach of inmate rights? Nope. Security comes first.

 

Getting a critically injured inmate out of the facility to a hospital can also take half an hour. Does that constitute a breach of inmate rights? Nope. Security comes first.

[SKJAM!]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

Mask of Justice: A straitjacket would do--of course no Golden Age setting would have him unmasked in an irreversible way, but he'd still need his hands free to use what information his powers would give him about the lock.

 

Calculus: They'd probably just take away his foci at first. Then it gets trickier, as his specialty is figuring out the weaknesses in things--like prisons. Eventually, they'd have to resort to some sort of intelligence-dampening process--which just shifts the escape risk to any time he sees his attorney or is up for a hearing, since not allowing a prisoner to think in his own defense is most certainly a violation of civil rights.

 

Rock Bottom: Standard brick procedures, since he's a fairly standard brick. His only really fancy trick is something that takes a running start, something that's not readily available in jail cells.

 

Kira Midori: Anti-psi shields, no loose objects, no visual contact. On the other hand, she's another law-abider.

 

Talion: A standard jail cell would be plenty. The main thing is to make sure the guards know not to hurt him. At all. Not even a little.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

Chimera: Locking the door would probably prove useful. Beyond that, as long as the walls are solid, I don't see much trouble keeping him incarcerated.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

There is a certain risk inherent in being locked up. The question becomes' date=' is there any better way to lock up supers that doesn't place an undue burden on the state? Inmate rights cannot and will not override public safety. Nor can the state be required to bankrupt itself to keep inmates in the style to which they are accustomed. As long as the pressure prison (or any special uses facility) could pass ACA accreditation and a yearly audit, it would be safe from lawsuits based on anything but staff negligence and/or malice.[/quote']

 

ACA? Google provides:

 

Association of Canadian Advertisers

Association of Canadian Archivists

Association Canadienne d'Acoustique

Alberta Conservation Association

Alberta Construction Association

Allan Crawford Associates

ACA Assurance

Applications of Computer Algebra

Oh, there we go...American Correctional Association, right at the bottom.

 

ATUOOA *

 

And you're assuming this organization would accept the pressure cell.

 

Lawyer: "An Earthquake happened and my client's cell blew up. We'll be suing you for billions."

 

Director of Prisons: "Go right ahead. The facility passed its ACA audit last month. You won't be getting a penny."

 

Lawyer: "The ACA will also be named in the suit."

 

Prisons in general do have issues dealing with things like fires. At the facility where I work, we can evacuate inmates into a yard if their building somehow catches fire. Of course their building is made of concrete, and it's chances of catching on fire are somewhere between slim and none.

 

Getting fire trucks into the facility, on the other hand, can take up to half an hour. Does that constitute a breach of inmate rights? Nope. Security comes first.

 

Getting a critically injured inmate out of the facility to a hospital can also take half an hour. Does that constitute a breach of inmate rights? Nope. Security comes first.

 

How long will it take to bring emergency medical personnel in to deal with a medical emergency? Real prisons do have medical personnel on site, but an extended time period to acclimatize them to the pressure would prevent anything resembling a quick response. There would certainly be complaints about the process, and likely organizations bringing pressure on political types to issue a ban on the process until it can wind its way through the courts.

 

Of course, we're talking comic book reality. A prison in a different dimension and a prison where inmates are shrunk to action figure size both exist already in the comics, so why not a high pressure prison?

 

 

* Avoid The Use Of Obscure Acronyms

[Metaphysician]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

A somewhat bigger problem with "hyperbaric chamber as universal solution": it isn't. Off the top of my head, among the variety of superhumans for whom it'd be ineffective. . .

 

-Anybody who doesn't have to breath ( obvious )

 

-Most shape shifters ( if you don't have blood, or can choose to not have blood. . . )

 

-Bricks and regenerators of beyond a certain calibre ( too much stamina to be effected )

 

-Telepaths ( just mind control the guards into doing a decompression cycle first )

 

-Cyberkinetics ( as above, except more direct )

 

-At least some chi empowered martial artists ( those for whom self-healing is available, basically )

 

-Super geniuses ( whether their contingencies are manipulative or scientific, premade get-out-of-jail plans can totally take the chamber into account, possibly by yanking the entire thing out and carrying it along in an escape )

 

-Most spellcasters ( any who can duplicate one of the above effects, basically )

 

A lot of these have their own solutions, but the point is, hyper baric chamber is not the be all, end all universal solution, even if you *are* ruthless.

[Querysphinx]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

ACA? Google provides:

 

 

Oh, there we go...American Correctional Association, right at the bottom.

 

And you're assuming this organization would accept the pressure cell.

 

My apologies. The ACA is not an obscure acronym if you work in corrections. It's the national accreditation organization for prisons. Every year we get to do an audit.

 

As for accepting pressure chambers. I can't answer that because the situation does not arise in the real world. Instead, I will rephrase the assertion in more general terms.

 

For the sake of argument, let us assume there are metahumans, some of whom are criminals.

Let us assume that ordinary prison facilities are incapable of containing metahumans.

Let us assume that, without resorting to outlandish technology, the government devises a feasible one-size-fits-all method of containing metahumans.

Let us assume that this one-size-fits-all method resides at the upper limit of budgetary constraints.

Let us assume that this one-size-fits-all method imposes some constraints on prisoner safety: e.g. it will be difficult or impossible to evacuate them in case of fire, flood, or medical emergency.

 

What are the government's options: I see three.

 

1) Let the criminals go. We can't contain them without violating their civil rights

2) Break the budget to try (possibly without success) to research and construct individual solutions for every individual inmate.

3) Allow the one-size-fits-all and chalk up the extra risk to the "If you don't like it here, why do you keep coming back?" effect.

 

Just saying, "The government would never allow that," to the one-size-fits-all is non-productive. The government has to do something with these inmates.

 

The most analogous real world situation is Administrative Segregation. That's the 23/7 Lockdown part of the facility. If, by some miracle, a fire got started in the Ad-seg units, the inmates might be evacuated from their cells into the day room, but removing them from the pod would likely take the better part of an hour.

 

Lawyer: "The ACA will also be named in the suit."

Director of prisons: "Yeah, right. Go ahead. Make us release every metahuman inmate in the county. We'll be sure to release them in your neighborhood."

 

How long will it take to bring emergency medical personnel in to deal with a medical emergency? Real prisons do have medical personnel on site,

Not strictly true. There are no medical personal on site in the facility where I work between the hours of 8 PM and 8 AM. There are no actual Physicians between 5PM and 9AM (Dr.'s hours, you know). And there are no Doctors at all on weekends.

 

So, during the hours inmates are most likely to get killed, the wait time for services is the longest.

 

And this is the biggest facility in the state. The rest are even more understaffed. It's all about that infinite budget.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: How would Stronghold imprison your character?

 

Querysphinx does make a good argument for pressure chambers as a way to hold supers using real world technology, and it or something like it probably would be implemented. All I'm saying is that there would be protesters and court challenges. Probably some sympathy from the bench for the protesters too.

 

Saying "the government would never allow that" makes the government into a monolith that it is not. The executive branch would be all over pressure chambers, as a way to make its own job easier (ie possible). The judiciary branch would be giving it a good hard look, and in some cases making demands that would be hard or impossible to meet. Incumbents would say "it's the best we've got, and we're doing our job keeping criminals behind bars", while non-incumbent candidates would say "what's the difference between Guantanamo and Stronghold? In Gitmo, if you have a heart attack, you get medical attention."

 

Ultimately, there would be strong pressure for research into an alternative, and if there's not a one-size-fits-all alternative, then many inmates would probably be moved (eventually, and in most cases due to court order) to more expensive, individualized containment cells. If no Reed Richards stepped forward to donate some technology to the corrections system, it would end up a nightmare.