Enough to Destroy A Planet?

[Kristopher]

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/76710-BOOM-Table-vs-HERO

 

I started a thread over on the Star Hero forum, hoping to discuss the actual energy needed to destroy a planet vs what's been published in HERO. I'm going to check the Star Hero book when I get home tonight and compare it with the section printed therein.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

You know, I like you, but your nuts

 

Zettatons?

 

The Body of Earth is, what, 85? 86? - I think I've seen it mentioned as that somewhere - ASSUMING that you treat the planet as a homogenous whole*. So a single 170 Body hit would pretty much destroy it completely - reduce it to gravel. that would be, what - 14 zettatons?

 

So, 14 Zettatons = 170 Body and....sheesh - Excel doesn't do numbers that big.

 

OK

 

Assume each body is twice the damage of the previous one, 170 Body is 1.5X10^51 times more damage than 1 Body - so that leaves 1 body at still far too much damage - so the usual exponential approach doesn't well there.

 

I don't know, in short

 

 

 

 

*This does assume an exponential approach to damage, which many argue against. Not me, but many.

[Naanomi]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

Better to spread a single 100 damage attack with AoE big enough to cover a big enough chunk of the planet to make sure the rest will follow suit.

[Oruncrest]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

I had a nice long reply written, but then the boards kicked me off and ate the reply. So i'll summarize:

 

1 Zettaton = 10^15 Megatons (from Atomic Rocket's Boom Table = +50 DC.

 

7 Zettatons = the DC from 1 Megaton + 53 DC.

 

if 1 Megaton = 42 DC (from my interpretation of a 1 Meagaton Nuke), then 7 Zettatons = 95 DC = 32D6-1 RKA = 111 BODY.

 

if 1 Megaton = 60 DC (from Steve Long's Nuke in the HERO System Almanac II), then 7 Zettatons = 113 DC = 38D6-1 RKA = 132 BODY.

 

Both fall well short of the 177 BODY needed to destroy the Earth (from Star HERO). And I believe Steve said that the number needed in The Ultimate Base would be even higher.

 

It might work if we treated the planet as a wall instead of a vehicle (63 BODY to punch thru the planet, 121 BODY to destroy it) but I think that being defined as a vehicle is just fine for 'Spaceship Earth'.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

Destroy the Earth?!?

 

But... but... I live there!!!

[Sean Waters]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

At the moment...

[Kristopher]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

I think the real answer here is that the Earth has a lot more BODY than a simple reading of the BODY per mass rules would indicate, and this points to the fact that the system doesn't scale up well beyond a certain point.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

This brings to mind one of my pet peeves with the movie Star Wars. The Death Star fires its big gun at a planet and the planet explodes. Why is it that the giant plasma bolt doesn't just punch a hole through the planet? Granted that would cause lots of destruction and may set off earthquakes and volcanos and atmospheric catastrophes that would ruin the place for the inhabitants, but it isn't like the core of the planet is made of dynamite. If I had to design a weapon to reduce a planet to gravel in Hero terms, I would require a massive AoE (Megascaled of course) to make it hit the whole planet instead of just buying it as a high damage RKA.

 

Now from a military point of view, destroying a planet doesn't necessarily mean reducing it to gravel, it just means killing everything there, so the Death Star would have been just fine blasting holes in things. Of course that isn't as cinematic, which is obviously what really counts.

[McCoy]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

Now from a military point of view' date=' destroying a planet doesn't necessarily mean reducing it to gravel, it just means killing everything there, so the Death Star would have been just fine blasting holes in things. Of course that isn't as cinematic, which is obviously what really counts.[/quote']

Haven't looked at the other thread, but that was my first question and where most threads on this subject have bogged down. Have we defined "destroy?" Is removing the atmosphere sufficient? How about melting the crust? or must the planet be transformed into an asteroid belt?

 

How many active points for "Transform: planet into asteroid belt?"

[GoldenAge]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

How about a giant AVLD or NND (that does BODY)? The aliens may want to move right in!

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

MegaScaled Change Environment (fresh air to Limburger cheese fumes) ought to do the trick handily. Everything with a sense of smell would take its own life in short order once it realized the smell couldn't be escaped.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

Destroy the Earth?!?

 

But... but... I live there!!!

 

 

"It's where I keep all my stuff!!"

 

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

"It's where I keep all my stuff!!"

 

 

I can't remember the movie you're quoting from, but I remember the line. Rep to you, sir.

[lemming]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

I can't remember the movie you're quoting from' date=' but I remember the line. Rep to you, sir.[/quote']

 

Tick.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

10-q!

[薔薇語]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

How about a giant EDM that effects everything in the universe and transports everything to an exact copy of itself (less the plant in question) where said planet is a asteroid belt? How much do you think that would cost?

 

La Rose

[Egyptoid]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

the power level would have to be over 9OOO.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

Mass of planet earth = about 6 x 10^24 kg.

Mass-energy of planet earth = 5.4 x 10^41 joules. Takes a lot less energy than that to shatter it into tiny pieces, even less to break it into big chunks, and far less to render the surface uninhabitable.

A 1 megaton nuke will reduce everything within 1 kilometer to molten slag or irradiated rubble.

 

A 10 STR lifting a 100kg weight to a height of 1 meter = about 1000 joules.

160 STR lifting 100 megatons to a height of 1 meter = about 10^12 joules

510 STR, lifting about 8 solar masses 1 meter = about 10^41 joules

 

Looks like about 525 STR would equal or exceed the mass-energy of the planet Earth. I know Star Hero suggested you'd need around 51d6 KA, with a massive AoE, to do the job, but maybe the planet's a bit overrated--I think you might "only" need about 100 DC applied across a planet-sized area.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

I can't remember the movie you're quoting from' date=' but I remember the line. Rep to you, sir.[/quote']

 

Thank you, Sir. And as soon as I can, I _am_ going to heap rep upon you for your lame/unlame thread.

 

The quote, as someone noted above, is from the Tick cartoon. In particular, it's from an episode where they're spoofing--- argh! The great big purple guy with a Kirby Head---- gah! I don't know enough about comics.... Anyway, he eats planets and things. This episode featured a spoof of him. The Tick was serving as a miniscule agent of hygiene for the big guy, talking about earth... The big guy decides he wants to eat earth...

 

"You can't destroy the earth! It's where I keep all my stuff!"

 

:rofl: :rofl:

[VegasNomad]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

I seem to recall that since you can't get "cover" from an AOE attack...just do enough to destroy each individual hex...right? So since stone is 5 energy/10 physical defense plus 19 body you just need to do enough body to destroy that and megascale it enough to cover the earth...mebbe.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

I seem to recall that since you can't get "cover" from an AOE attack...just do enough to destroy each individual hex...right? So since stone is 5 energy/10 physical defense plus 19 body you just need to do enough body to destroy that and megascale it enough to cover the earth...mebbe.

This is from the FAQ:

If a character uses an Area Of Effect attack against a target larger than one hex (or even larger than the Area Of Effect itself) — such as an aircraft carrier, a giant, a starship, a building, or a dragon — does the damage apply per hex, or just one time?

 

If you use an Area Of Effect attack on an object or creature larger than one hex, or larger than the Area Of Effect itself, you just apply the damage once (using Hit Locations if applicable). You do not get to apply the damage multiple times, “per hex” or otherwise. You can reflect the nature of the attack in the description of the damage it causes and other secondary effects, if you like (“Don’t walk too near the edge of the bomb damage, Bob -- the deck’s fragile there, and you could fall in!”).

Which makes me question needing AoE at all ifyou look at a planet as a single thing (as opposed to looking at it as billions of hexes of rock all individually destructable).

[Kristopher]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

This is from the FAQ:

 

Which makes me question needing AoE at all ifyou look at a planet as a single thing (as opposed to looking at it as billions of hexes of rock all individually destructable).

 

Agreed.

 

Furthermore, without the AoE, you don't get to cheap out on the attack, and you need an attack that actually does enough damage to deal with all the BODY a planet has.

 

And if a person can have up to 20 BODY, a planet the size of Earth does not have only 80-some, or 100-some.

[dmjalund]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

I have always been of the opinion that area affect attacks should have increased (rather than multiple) effect on larger characters, effectively +2dc per x8 mass (but only if the original attack breaches the defense of the character).

 

this would obviously have an upper limit if the target is larger than the Area affected.

 

the corollary would be that a small person/object would suffer less damage from area affect attacks (without being less penetrating)

[SteveZilla]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

Destroy the Earth?!?

 

But... but... I live there!!!

 

Scooped.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Enough to Destroy A Planet?

 

This brings to mind one of my pet peeves with the movie Star Wars. The Death Star fires its big gun at a planet and the planet explodes. Why is it that the giant plasma bolt doesn't just punch a hole through the planet? Granted that would cause lots of destruction and may set off earthquakes and volcanos and atmospheric catastrophes that would ruin the place for the inhabitants' date=' but it isn't like the core of the planet is made of dynamite. If I had to design a weapon to reduce a planet to gravel in Hero terms, I would require a massive AoE (Megascaled of course) to make it hit the whole planet instead of just buying it as a high damage RKA.[/quote']

 

Yeah, but that starts getting into the concept that "Growth is a 'defense'" -- in that if you have enough Growth, you become "immune" to some effects.

 

Suppose instead of a simple (but gigantic) laser, or plasma bolt, it was a beam that suppressed the Strong Nuclear Force in, say, materials denser than Iron -- cauing them to instantly undergo Fission? What with the amount of Iron & heavier Elements in our core, making them all split would IMO blow up the whole planet.

 

Now from a military point of view, destroying a planet doesn't necessarily mean reducing it to gravel, it just means killing everything there, so the Death Star would have been just fine blasting holes in things. Of course that isn't as cinematic, which is obviously what really counts.

 

They would have been better with a planet-wide Neutron Beam. Kill the people, but not the Real Estate.