Public ID or Secret ID

[quozaxx]

Which, in your opinion is harder on a character, having a Public ID or a Secret ID?

 

Both have pros and cons. but complication (or disadvantage) wise they are the same points. Recently one of my player's characters went from Secret ID to Public one.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

Public ID, I'd think. Maintaining a secret ID takes work and can be a proper hassle, but a public ID means that everybody with an axe to grind knows or can easily figure out where to find you and what some good ways of hitting you below the belt might be.

 

("Now that we know who Armor Man is, we can bill him for the all the damage to our fair city that his reckless super-brawls have caused!")

 

In lights of this, I might even be inclined to rule that a secret ID actually is worth fewer points than listed in the book. Of course, I'm looking at this from a comic book perspective now, and in the comics real, significant threats to the secret don't actually come up that often -- more usually it pops up as a relatively minor nuisance that the protagonist can get around with some quick thinking or through sheer luck, and the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

Public ID, I'd think. Maintaining a secret ID takes work and can be a proper hassle, but a public ID means that everybody with an axe to grind knows or can easily figure out where to find you and what some good ways of hitting you below the belt might be.

 

("Now that we know who Armor Man is, we can bill him for the all the damage to our fair city that his reckless super-brawls have caused!")

 

In lights of this, I might even be inclined to rule that a secret ID actually is worth fewer points than listed in the book. Of course, I'm looking at this from a comic book perspective now, and in the comics real, significant threats to the secret don't actually come up that often -- more usually it pops up as a relatively minor nuisance that the protagonist can get around with some quick thinking or through sheer luck, and the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

 

To some extent, the fact that secret ID's have been a comic book trope for so long contributes to this. We've seen a lot of the secret ID stories, so they don't get done as much. Look at the Silver Age DC books, and often the threat to the character's secret ID was far more significant than the threat posed by the villain of the story (if there even was a villain).

 

Public ID means people can find you? oooo scary. I doubt you would have enjoyed the game much if your character just hid from all forms of adversity and you never had to roll a die or role play your reaction to a challenge.

 

Also,I don't think a lot of comic characters have Public ID's. The Hulk? Sure, everyone recognizes him, but the army has to search for him - they don't know where to find him at any given time. I think the 10 point "public ID" reflects the comic version - the character is easily recognized, but is not always in the public eye.

 

Like most things, the real value of these items is set by the game style far more than by the book rules. I dislike using the book value for complications as an automatic feature. Look at the mechanic and build it to reflect how often you view the issue as impacting the game, and how severe the consequences are. If you expect your secret ID will only rarely be an issue, and it will be a minor one, price the Social Complication on that basis. If your Overconfidence is not Strong, but Overwhelming (no books; exact term slips my mind; Total Commitment, maybe), note that and take the extra 5 points. And then play it out accordingly.

 

We had a player with the highest level Psych on his Overconfidence. He played to it. He backed down from no one and nothing. He would not flee a combat. At various times, he indicated his DCV was 4 (followed by "Huh? What's your DEX" "23 - but I've never even heard of this guy - there's no way he can do any serious damage, so why put any effort into avoiding him?) and asked if he could make an Ego roll in order to consider Dodging Firewing's next attack, after having challlenged him to single combat (he made the Ego roll, which enabled him to be missed and got him through post-segment 12; he lost the fight, but he gained the rest of the team time to deal with the mission-critical objective, and his honourable fight earned some respect from Firewing). That extra 5 point complication was well earned, and enriched the campaign for everyone - how many characters have moments like that remembered 10 to 20 years later?

[dmjalund]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

just wait till you encounter the Super-Agent Paparazzi!

[Lucius]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

To some extent, the fact that secret ID's have been a comic book trope for so long contributes to this. We've seen a lot of the secret ID stories, so they don't get done as much. Look at the Silver Age DC books, and often the threat to the character's secret ID was far more significant than the threat posed by the villain of the story (if there even was a villain).

 

Public ID means people can find you? oooo scary. I doubt you would have enjoyed the game much if your character just hid from all forms of adversity and you never had to roll a die or role play your reaction to a challenge.

 

Also,I don't think a lot of comic characters have Public ID's. The Hulk? Sure, everyone recognizes him, but the army has to search for him - they don't know where to find him at any given time. I think the 10 point "public ID" reflects the comic version - the character is easily recognized, but is not always in the public eye.

 

Like most things, the real value of these items is set by the game style far more than by the book rules. I dislike using the book value for complications as an automatic feature. Look at the mechanic and build it to reflect how often you view the issue as impacting the game, and how severe the consequences are. If you expect your secret ID will only rarely be an issue, and it will be a minor one, price the Social Complication on that basis. If your Overconfidence is not Strong, but Overwhelming (no books; exact term slips my mind; Total Commitment, maybe), note that and take the extra 5 points. And then play it out accordingly.

 

We had a player with the highest level Psych on his Overconfidence. He played to it. He backed down from no one and nothing. He would not flee a combat. At various times, he indicated his DCV was 4 (followed by "Huh? What's your DEX" "23 - but I've never even heard of this guy - there's no way he can do any serious damage, so why put any effort into avoiding him?) and asked if he could make an Ego roll in order to consider Dodging Firewing's next attack, after having challlenged him to single combat (he made the Ego roll, which enabled him to be missed and got him through post-segment 12; he lost the fight, but he gained the rest of the team time to deal with the mission-critical objective, and his honourable fight earned some respect from Firewing). That extra 5 point complication was well earned, and enriched the campaign for everyone - how many characters have moments like that remembered 10 to 20 years later?

 

Do you mind if I crosspost this later to the thread about Complications? I think it has some bearing.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Psychological Limitation, Palindromedary

[Chimera 12]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

Public ID means people can find you? oooo scary. I doubt you would have enjoyed the game much if your character just hid from all forms of adversity and you never had to roll a die or role play your reaction to a challenge.

 

That, I believe, was uncalled for. I simply explained my reasons why I think a proper Public ID is more of a hindrance than a Secret one.

 

Also' date='I don't think a lot of comic characters have Public ID's. The Hulk? Sure, everyone recognizes him, but the army has to search for him - they don't know where to find him at any given time. I think the 10 point "public ID" reflects the comic version - the character is easily recognized, but is not always in the public eye.[/quote']

 

No, I don't think the Hulk has a Public ID either. Sure, just about everybody recognizes him, but comparatively few people know he's Bruce Banner. (And incidentally, the Social Complication examples on page 6E1 428 rate both a Public and a Secret ID at an equal 15 or 20 points -- Frequent, Major (or possibly Severe) complications, in other words.)

 

Reed Richards, now...

 

Like most things' date=' the real value of these items is set by the game style far more than by the book rules. I dislike using the book value for complications as an automatic feature. Look at the mechanic and build it to reflect how often you view the issue as impacting the game, and how severe the consequences are. If you expect your secret ID will only rarely be an issue, and it will be a minor one, price the Social Complication on that basis. If your Overconfidence is not Strong, but Overwhelming (no books; exact term slips my mind; Total Commitment, maybe), note that and take the extra 5 points. And then play it out accordingly.[/quote']

 

This, on the other hand, I think I agree with. Just how much a Complication is intended to complicate a character's life really should be left up to the player, not the book; it's entirely possible to have a character with a secret ID who's never hindered by it at all in play because it never comes up, but then it should be left at the "background detail" level, not show up on the character sheet as an actual Complication worth points. After all, part of the purpose of said sheet is explicitly helping you tell the GM what you'd like the game to be about.

[Matt Holck]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

if I have five players,

I have little time to deal with individual secrete ID

 

as everyone wants to play,

the team almost exclusively spends most of their time together as Super Heroes

[incrdbil]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

It depends. If both are values the same as a complication, then they shoudl be equally hard, though possibly in different ways. If not, your GM is doing it wrong.

[torchwolf]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

Just how much a Complication is intended to complicate a character's life really should be left up to the player' date=' not the book; it's entirely possible to have a character with a secret ID who's never hindered by it at all in play because it never comes up, but then it should be left at the "background detail" level, not show up on the character sheet as an actual Complication worth points. After all, part of the purpose of said sheet is explicitly helping you tell the GM what you'd like the game to be [i']about[/i].

Exactly.

 

if I have five players,

I have little time to deal with individual secrete ID

 

as everyone wants to play,

the team almost exclusively spends most of their time together as Super Heroes

That's a valid reason for reducing the frequency and value for Disads/Complications in recognition of the actual game time that will be spent on it;

as mentioned under GMing in the rules, the greater the number of players, the less screen time all individual Disads/Complications will get.

 

It depends. If both are values the same as a complication' date=' then they shoudl be equally hard, though possibly in different ways. If not, your GM is doing it wrong.[/quote']

Or should probably reduce the Frequency of the one that comes up less.

Public ID would in general come up more in combat, action scenes and during adventures, while Secret ID would come up more during subplots (though of course subplots may, and maybe should, overlap with scenarios).

[Greywind]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

if I have five players,

I have little time to deal with individual secrete ID

 

as everyone wants to play,

the team almost exclusively spends most of their time together as Super Heroes

Considering using blue book techniques for downtime then. The time spent out of costume is just as important to the character as time in the jammies.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

Do you mind if I crosspost this later to the thread about Complications? I think it has some bearing.

 

Feel free - I generally figure once it's posted, it's public domain, but thanks for asking before cross posting.

 

That' date=' I believe, was uncalled for. I simply explained my reasons [i']why[/i] I think a proper Public ID is more of a hindrance than a Secret one.

 

My comment wasn't intended as a shot, and in some games, the Public ID may well be more of a hindrance. If we think about it, how hindering is a Hunted? If no one had one, there wopuld still be adversaries to fight, and I don't see the Hunted coming after the specific PC and taking him out in very many games. DNPC? There would be no innocent bystanders if we didn't provide one for the GM? Complications are, in large part, a means for the player to define the kinds of challenges he'd like his character to be faced with in the game.

 

No' date=' I don't think the Hulk has a Public ID either. Sure, just about everybody recognizes him, but comparatively few people know he's Bruce Banner. (And incidentally, the Social Complication examples on page 6E1 428 rate both a Public and a Secret ID at an equal 15 or 20 points -- Frequent, Major (or possibly Severe) complications, in other words.)[/quote']

 

I'd say the most obvious change would be to the frequency. If the Public ID will come up more often than the Secret one, clearly it is more frequent. Severity of the complications can also be easily varied.

 

Reed Richards' date=' now...[/quote']

 

For a while, he and Sue did maintain a secret ID to try to provide a normal lifestyle.

 

This' date=' on the other hand, I think I agree with. Just how much a Complication is intended to complicate a character's life really should be left up to the player, not the book; it's entirely possible to have a character with a secret ID who's never hindered by it at all in play because it never comes up, but then it should be left at the "background detail" level, not show up on the character sheet as an actual Complication worth points. After all, part of the purpose of said sheet is explicitly helping you tell the GM what you'd like the game to be [i']about[/i].

 

I could also see a GM specifically barring certain frequencies for certain limitations because he doesn't intend to focus more than a certain amount of attention on them.

 

That's a valid reason for reducing the frequency and value for Disads/Complications in recognition of the actual game time that will be spent on it;

as mentioned under GMing in the rules, the greater the number of players, the less screen time all individual Disads/Complications will get.

 

IIRC, 6e also suggests reducing the required points in complications when there are more players in order to reflect the limited screen time to deal with each character's issues. What we saw in our 6e characters is far less Hunted's since these now go from "all Supers have enemies and we need them to get to the point level" to "this issue is germane to the specific character, and is expected to come up in play with considerably more frequency than the "villain of the week".

 

Public ID would in general come up more in combat' date=' action scenes and during adventures, while Secret ID would come up more during subplots (though of course subplots may, and maybe should, overlap with scenarios).[/quote']

 

The player placing a high frequency on non-combat, non-action, non-adventure complications would also seem to suggest a request the GM focus considerable time on such activities.

[wick]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

In the case of the Incredible Hulk you can says:

1. Distinctive features: Large, muscular, half-naked, green guy

2. Reputation: Hulk Smash...everything.

 

These are way different than having a Public ID.

 

Public ID is Tony Stark head of stark industries who also happens to sideline as Iron Man.

 

You can even have both a secret and a private identity. Say a captain of industry buy day and a masked figure by night.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

The real reason I tend to think of a Public ID as more limiting than a Secret one may just be that I tend to reflexively assume a background in which the possession of superhuman powers does not in and of itself grant you any special rights. That is, you may have pulsonic blasts and a snazzy costume, but as far as society at large is concerned you're still just another private citizen, no more entitled to take the law into your own hands than J. Random Vigilante Wannabe and his trusty shotgun.

 

In such a setting, a secret ID can be awfully convenient. If, to the public eye, Armor Man simply remains a mysterious figure in a shiny golden battlesuit who shows up out of nowhere to save the day, that's one thing. After all, the public does love its heroes. But as soon as it becomes public knowledge that A. M. is really 'just' Toby Quark, industrialist playboy? How long do you think it would take for the same people who were his fans last week to start questioning just what makes him so special that he should be allowed to go traipsing about in what amounts to military hardware? (There'll be people asking that question even if they don't know who he is, of course. But the number will positively leap upwards overnight if his secret ever comes out. Just human nature.)

 

But, as I said, that's a setting issue. You could just as easily have a world in which superpowers and a proven dedication to work for the common good genuinely do make somebody part of an acknowledged elite with special privileges, legal or otherwise. There, then, a public ID might actually be less of a hindrance for a hero than a secret one, on the principle that people are more likely to question and distrust somebody who hides behind a mask where others don't...

[Blue]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

Secret ID is harder on the character.

 

Public ID is harder on everything and everyone around the character.

[Maccabe]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

Actually when HERO was starting out as Champions Public ID was 10 points and Secret ID was 15 points, they were also SEPERATE disadvantages. It wasn't until later that they came under one category.

I remember one of my players talking about dropping his characters Secret ID to Public ID. These days thats not even a point difference so maybe somewhere people who made contributions to HERO thought they were worth the same number of points and were thus equal. Ideally it does depend on the type of campaign and character in question.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

I don't think of either Public or Secret Identity being harder than the other; each causes a completely different set of complications in the character's life. As a GM, I prefer Secret Identity, but that's a matter of personal preference. Different campaigns, different GMs, different gaming styles.

 

In my Champions (5E) game, I have four players with Secret Identity and one* with no Disad points for identity, secret or public. And unlike Matt Holck, I don't have problems including some Secret Identity stuff for 5 players pretty much every game session. IME, it's more a matter of keeping individual bits from taking over play. Plus, my players' characters tend to share personal info and gravitate together or involve each other in SID, so they don't mind so much when another player is in the spotlight.

 

For example, Serendipity's SID owns a bar. During play, Styx's SID has started working at her bar as a bouncer. Frequently, something that touches on a character's secret identity in my game (like VIPER taking over Sentinel's SID's brownstone to search for something hidden there, or Serendipity looking for her long-lost fraternal twin sister, who ended up being a member of PSI) will end up involving some or all the heroes in the end. And those times that they don't, well, the uninvolved players get to enjoy watching someone *else* squirm for a bit...

 

* Though Subliminal has no Secret Identity or Public Identity disad on his character sheet, he does have a non-hero name and his DNPCs are not aware of his adventuring career. So in effect, he has a secret ID, though I'm much more lenient with him on that.

[Karmakaze]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

If we think about it' date=' how hindering is a Hunted? If no one had one, there wopuld still be adversaries to fight, and I don't see the Hunted coming after the specific PC and taking him out in very many games. [/quote']

 

That's going to depend on your game and your GM. Thinking back to the last two times I took a hunted, my hunted inconvenienced my PC more than the team in general, because the attacks were targeted to my PC's weaknesses. In the second case, I wound up needing a rescue from the rest of the team, which I'd count as hindering. Unless I'd made a specific enemy during gameplay, I don't think the GM would have had a general villain target me that way.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

For a while, he and Sue did maintain a secret ID to try to provide a normal lifestyle.

 

Considering that resulted in Elspeth Cromwell mistaking them for witches and getting them (and Franklin) dragged down into Hell, I think they paid more than the standard 15 points for the complication.

[wrestlinggeek]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

Ok, I'm gonna sum up my feelings on this one. It depends on three factors:

1) The Character

2)The Campaign

3) The GM.

[Greywind]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

Considering that resulted in Elspeth Cromwell mistaking them for witches and getting them (and Franklin) dragged down into Hell' date=' I think they paid more than the standard 15 points for the complication.[/quote']The GM rolled 3 on the involvement roll and based the entire arc off that.

[AnotherSkip]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

just wait till you encounter the Super-Agent Paparazzi!

 

Uh.... actually, I have one. He is the Hireling of the Butler for the mega villians of the campaign. the Butler alone has had at least three hours of the team dealing with him.... The super agent Paparazzi hasent gotten that much time yet but it should only be a matter of time before he rizes to Bullet in the Head level of annoyance.....

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Public ID or Secret ID

 

That's going to depend on your game and your GM. Thinking back to the last two times I took a hunted' date=' my hunted inconvenienced my PC more than the team in general, because the attacks were targeted to my PC's weaknesses. In the second case, I wound up needing a rescue from the rest of the team, which I'd count as hindering. Unless I'd made a specific enemy during gameplay, I don't think the GM would have had a general villain target me that way.[/quote']

 

This again depends on perspective. It sounds like the team was down an ally in the first case and inconvenienced by having to rescue one in the second place, disadvantages to them in both cases. Don't DNPC's get targeted by attacks more powerful than they can taken and get kidnapped and need rescuing?

 

Considering that resulted in Elspeth Cromwell mistaking them for witches and getting them (and Franklin) dragged down into Hell' date=' I think they paid more than the standard 15 points for the complication.[/quote']

 

Would they have had no adventure that issue in the absence of that complication? In a game, would Reed and Sue's players have been the only ones involved in that adventure, while the other players sat around with nothing to do? And if they were, which players would feel they had been disadvantaged?

 

NOTE: Our games run with all the same complications, but there's no question they impact the character group. That's the nature of a group activity. Complications really only provide a message to the GM about the kinds of challenges we'd expect our characters to face. If we had no complications, I expect we'd still face challenges or the game would get very boring very quickly. And I doubt any of us expect our complications to come up evbery time - we still expect a variety of challenges.