The Hero System is bland and over complicated

[RexMundi]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Actually, I've made it a point since I got the book when it finally came out, to bring it to all my "small Cons" .... I've had no issue, with 8 and 10 year olds picking up the new rules at all, to the point of their making fun of their 30 and 40 something year old multiple degree holding DnD grognard parents about it...... Old Dogs new Tricks I believe, but the game is retardedly simple to pick up if you actually bother to RTFM.

 

Oh, Quincon I ran my 6e 4 hour spot where the Sidekicks (Played by a group of 4 kids ranging from 8 to 12, whom have never played HERO before), had to defeat their mentors (Played by the parents all of whom have had "some" experience, or were "sticking to 4th or 5th because their genius was not consulted in the creation of 6th)......The kids mopped the floor with the parents, right out of the box. They were even FAR more polite about handling books that weren't theirs either, and then went and made the folks go over to the vendors and buy out all the 6e material.

 

All good times. Certainly not bland and Overcomplicated (watching the kids dis the next two rounds of the 4th Ed DnD RPGA stuff and the Pathfinder Society material in order to work on their OWN HERO stuff, was cool as well.).

 

 

~Rex

[Wolf]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

I recently found out that my FLGS has a group of pre-teens that are playing 6e once a week. Apparently the GM's dad got him into 5th while young... it was awesome to see kids playing (heck, anyone playing) Hero in a game shop, first time ever seeing that for me.

[Susano]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

We had some people who never played any RPGs join a short supers game to see how the 6E rules are. They're having a blast with the game and don't seem to have issue with the rules, other than not liking the character generation process. However, I ascribe that to A) the guy who helped them make their PCs and using 700 point characters as a way to introduce people to HERO for the 1st time (and having them make the PCs themselves.)

[RexMundi]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Yeah to many points......I've got the "build" broken down to a science and can actually "interview" a player and build the first PC with them, so they have all the input yet don't have to worry about point crunching but can still see where the points go etc etc etc ......Keeping it all interactive with 6 or so people I can usually generate the PC's in an hour, while the entire table participates, leaving a good solid three hours for play in a 4 hour event. Faster if folks want the pregen.

 

~Rex....Con Event Maestro 1st Class.

[prestidigitator]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

I've been using a roll-high method, but I've got my wife and kids (not yet in highschool) playing heroic fantasy Hero. Had a bunch of pregenerated packages for them to use to create characters. Game play is quite smooth and fun, and no one is having trouble, "getting it." That's not from people picking up the books and reading them, but honestly how many people do that before they get introduced to any system by an enterprising GM? It happens, but it's pretty rare IMX.

[casualplayer]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

I'm guessing you're jesting somewhat but I LOVE the index it's by far the most useful index of any RPG I've seen ever!

 

The value of an index increases with pagecount; Hero's index is pure, unalloyed gold!

[jtelson]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

I'm guessing you're jesting somewhat but I LOVE the index it's by far the most useful index of any RPG I've seen ever!

 

Just a carry over joke from one of the early threads complaining about 6th edition. It is a good index; The index is always right. I will listen to the index. I will not ignore the index's recommendations. The Index is God. And if this ever happens again, the Index will personally...hmmm that might have been something else.

[brionl]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Just a carry over joke from one of the early threads complaining about 6th edition. It is a good index; The index is always right. I will listen to the index. I will not ignore the index's recommendations. The Index is God. And if this ever happens again' date=' the Index will personally...hmmm that might have been something else.[/quote']

 

Disparaging the index, is an indexable offense!

[Ragitsu]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

I would rather watch paint dry, than play HERO.

[Hrimhari]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

The value of an index increases with pagecount; Hero's index is pure' date=' unalloyed gold![/quote']

This I must agree with 100%. It's absolutely invaluable, especially having the index to both books in each. I can't stand badly-indexed reference books of any sort, and with Hero, it's absolutely necessary.

[TSandman]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Hehe. If I could get them to do the simple maths required to do that' date=' then it wouldn't matter whether it was roll high or low. When in the middle of an intense fight, having to do coordinate substitution in your head (while strapped to a centrifuge) can take you out of the moment and back into reality. My players function better when they're in the gamespace and can simply roll what the sheet tells them instead of having to think about it.[/quote']

 

Just do it from the get go.... substitute it right on their sheet before giving it to them

[dmjalund]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

The Index is Mother and Father

[TSandman]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Don't get me started. I have very little patience for this frankly. If you can't get you roll under your stat roll number ( in which a higher one is better BTW) I sure wouldn't hire you. I freely admit dealing with various groups of the public for years however has made me the general IQ to lower than I would tolerate in people I associate with socially.

 

 

Oh, but I agree with you...

 

but then, there is a part of the gaming population that don't understand why HERO doesn't use a 20 sided die... "as most of them do"

[Susano]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

The Index is Mother and Father

 

The Index is the mindkiller....

[TSandman]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

All good times. Certainly not bland and Overcomplicated (watching the kids dis the next two rounds of the 4th Ed DnD RPGA stuff and the Pathfinder Society material in order to work on their OWN HERO stuff, was cool as well.).

~Rex

 

For me, HERO is to D&D as Lego is to GI-Joe...

 

One is quick and easy to play with, while with the other, you can have lot of fun with the unfinished product...

[Hrimhari]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Just do it from the get go.... substitute it right on their sheet before giving it to them

Which just really over-complicates things since I'm trying to teach them the system as well, by making their characters with them.

Oh, but I agree with you...

 

but then, there is a part of the gaming population that don't understand why HERO doesn't use a 20 sided die... "as most of them do"

I had a response to Steamteck's post last night, but it apparently got caught in some sort of 'too many posts too fast' moderator filter and hasn't been moderated in yet. I said that among my players, the one who has the most problem with it is the smartest person I know. In play, he's simply too distracted by the drama of the scene to want to think about the system. It's a personality thing, not a smart/stupid thing.

 

I absolutely agree that it's not too hard to understand. It is, however, rather off-putting to some players and, given all the sacred cows being slaughtered in 6e, I'm a bit surprised that 'always roll high' didn't make the cut. I'm not saying it's a bad system because of it, just that in some cases, it does represent a barrier.

[TSandman]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

The Index is the mindkiller....

 

I must Index.

Lack of Index is the mind-killer.

Lack of Index is the little-death that brings total obliteration.

I will finish my Index.

I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.

Where the Index has gone there will be Everything.

Only It will remain.

[Susano]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Oh, but I agree with you...

 

but then, there is a part of the gaming population that don't understand why HERO doesn't use a 20 sided die... "as most of them do"

 

Funny... we're playing Qin right now and it uses 2x d10 (subtract one from the other), and before that it was Unknown Armies, which is d100 (okay, 2 x d10 read as ones and 10s.)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

It's counter-intuitive for some that rolling LOW means Success' date=' when almost everything in society is Higher the Better.[/quote']

 

Like golf scores and work weeks?

[Susano]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Like golf scores and work weeks?

 

ERAs

[Lucius]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Lucius' date=' you really know your McDonald's history. [/quote']

 

Not really....I just know about the history of bad ideas.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says something about a land war in Asia...

[TSandman]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Like golf scores and work weeks?

 

When Luck (as in dice rolling) or any competition, the majority of times, Higher is Better...

 

Anyways, those having problems with Rolling Low might not be the ones who plays golf, as those asking why HERO doesn't use D20 most probably do not play anything else than the "usual suspect"...

[Guest steamteck]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

I absolutely agree that it's not too hard to understand. It is, however, rather off-putting to some players and, given all the sacred cows being slaughtered in 6e, I'm a bit surprised that 'always roll high' didn't make the cut. I'm not saying it's a bad system because of it, just that in some cases, it does represent a barrier.

 

Its my fault it stayed. I failed to communicate on the boards how much I prefer it. ( Not true at all, I rant whenever this comes up.)

 

 

Seriously, I guess I really have never associated with people inflexible enough for this to be a problem. I can't imagine the old school role players from my college days having any problem but them they were willing to try anything.

Then again most of my present players are long term and remember the Fantasy Trip which made most of us fall in love with the elegance of rolling under a target number. We just felt all bad ass when we have a big target number. The number seems like our power level so the bigger is better. " Ha! I succeed on a 14 or less. Take that fool!"

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

When Luck (as in dice rolling) or any competition' date=' the majority of times, Higher is Better...[/quote']

 

Both golf and ERA's involve competitions. "Points scored" indicates good offense if it is higher, but poor defense on the part of the opponent, who wants lower "points against". A 2 minute penalty is higher than a one minute penalty, but I'd be hard pressed to say it is "better". In many board games, neither high nor low may be desirable. The desired roll in backgammmon, Sorry (card, not dice), Monopoly or Talisman varies with every turn.

 

Should we also revise the hit location table? Presently, the lowest rolls are best, the highest rolls are poor and they don't move in lockstep in between.

 

Anyways' date=' those having problems with Rolling Low might not be the ones who plays golf, as those asking why HERO doesn't use D20 most probably do not play anything else than the "usual suspect"...[/quote']

 

The simple answer is that "This is Hero. It does not have the same rules as Other Game." There is no intrinsic superiority in a "roll high" system over a "roll low" system. if you want "roll high" to be better, all you have to do is subtract the roll on 3d6 from 21 and change no other rules.

[Markdoc]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

I fail to see why the "high or low" is an issue. It's very simply' date=' to hit and skill rolls is low, damage is high. What's so hard about that?[/quote']

 

I know a lot of long time hero gamers don't get it, but it has been an issue for every single group of hero newbies I've taught (and I've taught a lot of people: it's the only way I can get a game of Hero ). It's not an impossible issue, but it is an issue, just as it was with D&D. Saying "Well, it shouldn't be an issue" isn't helpful. Maybe it shouldn't .... but it is. Given that we'd like to encourage new players, I do think the missed opportunity to simply/unify mechanisms with 6E was a shame.

 

cheers, Mark