Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

IMO one of the more intriguing counter-trend examples is from our own Champions Universe: El Dorado' date=' the philanthopist/hero of South America. Miguel Esconsada de Villareal was born into one of Brazil's oldest and wealthiest families, but he wanted to achieve things on his own merits. When he came into his trust-fund inheritance at age 21, he gave [b']all[/b] his money away to charitable causes. He built his own businesses from the ground up, while training in the skills and inventing the gadgets to become a crime fighter.

 

Granted, El Dorado doubtlessly benefitted from the educational and athletic opportunities of his upbringing, and his attitude toward using his gifts to help others is practically the definition of noblesse oblige. Still, his dedication and accomplishments are extremely impressive.

 

He's also based on Watchmen's Ozymandias. So perhaps not the best example. Tetsuronin? Der Bogenschuetze?

[Christopher]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

Doc Savage all earned their wealth' date=' as did neo-pulp hero Tom Strong, although both Savage and Strong “inherited” the benefits of ubermensch programs from their fathers.[/quote']

I only know him from Wikipedia but accordign to it he was given his wealth:

All of this is paid for with gold from a Central American mine given to him by the local descendants of the Mayans in the first Doc Savage story.

[Christopher]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

John Carter' date=' The Shadow[/quote']

This John Carter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carter_%28character%29) is described of getting his influence from a marriage (I asuem he did it for love/heroism, not power) or a gold vein (not stated detailed).

Did you meant him?

 

The shadow:

One of these identities—indeed, the best known—is Lamont Cranston, a "wealthy young man about town." In the pulps, Cranston is a separate character; Allard frequently disguises himself as Cranston and adopts his identity ("The Shadow Laughs," 1931). While Cranston travels the world, Allard assumes his identity in New York. In their first meeting, Allard/The Shadow threatens Cranston, saying that he has arranged to switch signatures on various documents and other means that will allow him to take over the Lamont Cranston identity entirely unless Cranston agrees to allow Allard to impersonate him when he is abroad. Terrified, Cranston agrees. The two men sometimes meet in order to impersonate each other ("Crime over Miami," 1940). Apparently, the disguise works well because Allard and Cranston bear something of a resemblance to each other ("Dictator of Crime," 1941).

[csyphrett]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

I only know him from Wikipedia but accordign to it he was given his wealth:

 

Doc Savage and his crew went into this country called Hidalgo. He followed these bandits/revolutionaries into a hidden mayan enclave and saved their pocket country. So in gratitude, they ship him some gold when he needs it.

 

The thing is Doc is regulary described as buying failing companies and turning them into profitable ventures increasing his personal wealth with no problem.

CES

[Mister E]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

Judging from the name, alone: is Self-Made Man a hero or villain?

 

I say, "villain." Why?

 

The Self-Made Man is an American myth. Nobody just pops out of the void.

 

The first to posses this particular "Man" mystique was supposedly Benjamin Franklin. His self-making manliness came from exploiting his early American capitalist environment.

 

All that follow American Self-Made Man-ism inherit the same legacy:

 

... having to pretend they are something they are not.

 

Self-Made Man is Machiavellian.

[Badger]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

That in part is because of the mutant histery in his world, but otherwise it is a good point.

 

Each of the villian examples earned their companies, but I think that is to stress that they were evil enough to get that far in such a short time. They were ruthlessly to get the power/money they needed when they needed it. They were skrupolous enough to amass wealth that a honorable buisinessman needs 1 to 2 generations to amass. i fact them going (super)villian was a logical conclusion to their previous livestyle.

Tony Stark might had to rebuild but I doubt he ever started from a postion equal to Lex Luthor (he always had at least his name, genious, fame and connections to go for him).

The article also points out that "amassign wealth inherently corrupts" and I think that fits to my "you have to be corrupt to get that far in that short time".

 

But, isnt Stark a villain, *cough, cough* Civil War *cough*

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

Judging from the name' date=' alone: is [i']Self-Made Man [/i]a hero or villain?

 

I say, "villain." Why?

 

The Self-Made Man is an American myth. Nobody just pops out of the void.

 

The first to posses this particular "Man" mystique was supposedly Benjamin Franklin. His self-making manliness came from exploiting his early American capitalist environment.

 

 

So Ben Franklin is the son of a working-class fellow (you can tell that Josiah Franklin is working class; he works at the businesses that he owns, just like Warren Buffet!), and that pretty much makes him working class, too. His mom was just a country girl from Nantucket name of Folger. What? You've heard that name? Shut up. No. Just shut up.

 

Anyway, at the age of 17, this totally working class boy (I said, "shut up") runs away to Philadelphia. Along the way, like any seventeen-year-old working class runaway, he's invited to dinner by the Governor of New York, and soon after his arrival in Philadelphia, he's sent on a private mission to London by the Governor of Pennsylvania, who is his buddy.

 

I remember when that sort of thing used to happen to me back when I had no money! But relax, this doesn't prove that Ben wasn't a self-made man, because it turns out that the Governor's word wasn't good in London, and so Ben was left to ...hang around London for two years with no discernible means of support, meeting famous people, reading lots of books, and generally making a name for himself. Just like those homeless kids begging down on the Granville strip.

 

And then back he goes to Philadelphia, where he finally makes a name for himself.

 

Ben: "Hey, Mr. secretary to the assembly, I just got a state of the art printing press with no apparent source of capital!"

Secretary: "Well, why don't you become the sole-licensed printer to the colony? Here's a bunch of Indian treaties and the like for you to publish, and a wheelbarrow load of money in payment case you want to finance the publication of an almanac on the side!"

Ben: "Yay! I'm a self-made man!"

Later...

Ben: "Hey, Albany Conference dudes. Check me out! I'm an official Pennsylvania delegate!"

Dudes: "Big ups, Ben! How'd that happen, exactly?"

Ben: "Well, the guys down in Phillie got tired of giving out all the appointments to totally connected insiders, so they decided to give me one, too. Because I totally do not have any inside connections."

Dudes: "And because you're totally not connected or anything, we'd like to make you postmaster of the colonies!"

Ben: "Well, on the one hand, that'd be like a license to print money. But on the other, I don't know if I'd look good in a blue uniform..."

Dudes: "Don't worry, Ben, you can use the office to circulate your almanacs and make even more money!"

Ben: "Awesome, because I'm about to take the lead of a major insider faction in the assembly and try to win an election! Like all us eighteenth century working class outsiders do!"

Dudes: "Careful. If you lose, you'll have to go off to London and swan about the court, living in luxury on your enormous wealth and buttering up the king, and he won't even be able to tell you apart from all the Cocknies and Tynesiders doing the same!"

Ben: "That is a risk I'm prepared to take. Just as long as my shadowy real estate interests in America are taken care of while I'm away."

Dudes: "Will making your illegitimate son by an unknown woman the Governor of New Jersey cover that?"

Ben: "Well, bastard sons of working class, self-made outsiders usually do way better than Royal Governor of a Crown Colony, but... okay."

Dudes: "Okay. And give our best to your maternal uncles, okay?"

Ben: "Shut up shut up shut up shut up."

[Badger]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

So Ben Franklin is the son of a working-class fellow (you can tell that Josiah Franklin is working class; he works at the businesses that he owns' date=' just like Warren Buffet!), and that pretty much makes him working class, too. His mom was just a country girl from Nantucket name of Folger. What? You've heard that name? Shut up. No. Just shut up.

 

Anyway, at the age of 17, this totally working class boy (I said, "shut up") runs away to Philadelphia. Along the way, like any seventeen-year-old working class runaway, he's invited to dinner by the Governor of New York, and soon after his arrival in Philadelphia, he's sent on a private mission to London by the Governor of Pennsylvania, who is his buddy.

 

I remember when that sort of thing used to happen to me back when I had no money! But relax, this doesn't prove that Ben wasn't a self-made man, because it turns out that the Governor's word wasn't good in London, and so Ben was left to ...hang around London for two years with no discernible means of support, meeting famous people, reading lots of books, and generally making a name for himself. Just like those homeless kids begging down on the Granville strip.

 

And then back he goes to Philadelphia, where he finally makes a name for himself.

 

Ben: "Hey, Mr. secretary to the assembly, I just got a state of the art printing press with no apparent source of capital!"

Secretary: "Well, why don't you become the sole-licensed printer to the colony? Here's a bunch of Indian treaties and the like for you to publish, and a wheelbarrow load of money in payment case you want to finance the publication of an almanac on the side!"

Ben: "Yay! I'm a self-made man!"

Later...

Ben: "Hey, Albany Conference dudes. Check me out! I'm an official Pennsylvania delegate!"

Dudes: "Big ups, Ben! How'd that happen, exactly?"

Ben: "Well, the guys down in Phillie got tired of giving out all the appointments to totally connected insiders, so they decided to give me one, too. Because I totally do not have any inside connections."

Dudes: "And because you're totally not connected or anything, we'd like to make you postmaster of the colonies!"

Ben: "Well, on the one hand, that'd be like a license to print money. But on the other, I don't know if I'd look good in a blue uniform..."

Dudes: "Don't worry, Ben, you can use the office to circulate your almanacs and make even more money!"

Ben: "Awesome, because I'm about to take the lead of a major insider faction in the assembly and try to win an election! Like all us eighteenth century working class outsiders do!"

Dudes: "Careful. If you lose, you'll have to go off to London and swan about the court, living in luxury on your enormous wealth and buttering up the king, and he won't even be able to tell you apart from all the Cocknies and Tynesiders doing the same!"

Ben: "That is a risk I'm prepared to take. Just as long as my shadowy real estate interests in America are taken care of while I'm away."

Dudes: "Will making your illegitimate son by an unknown woman the Governor of New Jersey cover that?"

Ben: "Well, bastard sons of working class, self-made outsiders usually do way better than Royal Governor of a Crown Colony, but... okay."

Dudes: "Okay. And give our best to your maternal uncles, okay?"

Ben: "Shut up shut up shut up shut up."

 

For some reason, I sensed sarcasm in this post.

[Clonus]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

Yes, well in any case the list of well-to-do superheroes runs something like this:

 

1. Tony Stark. Like Howard Hughes, inherited a small fortune and turned it into a big one.

2. Moon Knight. Accumulated a small fortune out of a career as a mercenary,

3. Batman. Born rich and doesn't seem to have become a lot richer.

4. Reed Richards. Started middle class and became rich just by selling the crumbs that fall from his intellectual table

5. Stephen Strange. Started middle class, and became rich by being the world's best neurosurgeon back in the day. It's not certain how much money he has now, but have you seen his house?

6. Charles Xavier. Inherited big money.

7. Mister Terrific. Both of them were athletic and intellectual prodigies who made a fortune as teenagers from not very much.

8. Green Hornet. Rich boy from the beginning

9. Green Arrow. Inherited a fortune. Pissed it away

10. Ted Kord. His wealth comes from being a genius inventor. No particular indication that his parents were all that wealthy and he was a Ditko character so he probably succeeded by his own efforts.

11. Daniel Rand. Inherited a fortune from his sleazy crook of a father.

12. Thor, T'Challa, Namor. All members of royal families

13. Warren Worthington. The name says it all.

[Twilight]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

Didn't Green Arrow have his fortune swiped from him? As in he didn't so much piss it away as get swindled by somebody he trusted?

[lemming]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

For some reason' date=' I sensed sarcasm in this post.[/quote']

 

The sarcasm is strong in this one.

[The Weapon]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

I also remembered an even older story than all of our examples so far.

 

Snow White and the Seven Dwarves:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_White

The evil stepmother has made herself rich (by marrying the King). Wheras Snow White and the Prince that kissed her were born wealthy.

The original story it was the evil mother. Grimm's tales were far more twisted in the original.

[Alverant]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

Though not a superhero, it's my understanding that Scrooge MacDuck built up his immense wealth from nothing, using a combination of hard work and incredible good luck. He's never struck me as particularly greedy, although he does enjoy his wealth greatly, to the point of having a huge vault filled with massive amounts of golden coins that he basically just rolls around in from time to time.

 

Anyway, he may not be a superheroic example, but at least he isn't a villainous one.

 

Hope that helps.

I remember in the cartoon that half the time he was trying to increase his fortune and the other half he was defending it. As for being heroic/villainous I remember one episode where he was going to shut down a manufacturing plant so he could "have his profit now instead of later" and didn't think about the people he was putting out of work (until he lost his memory and wound up rallying against himself).

[Alverant]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

Good point. By extension' date=' business owners occasionally need to take actions that are less than altruistic for the good of their companies, such as staff reductions or opposing collective bargaining. Heirs to inherited wealth who do not operate their own businesses do not face the same constraints. This means heirs are permitted to be more heroic because they do not need to sully themselves with the concerns of the real world.[/quote'] Except often these "less than altruistic" actions aren't for the good of their companies, but for the good of themselves. For example collective bargaining is good for companies because it's good for the employees (most of the time) but not so good for the executives. In fiction (and often reality) those opposing collective bargaining want more control over their employees and treat them poorly. Likewise a company may cut back on safety and maintenance in order to "save money" which really means "more profit for ME".

 

There is the belief that those who get rich quickly in business did so through unethical means. It's not that big of a step to go from raiding pension funds and being lax on employee safety (knowing employees will be hurt or killed) to hiring a criminals to engage in corporate sabotage and political assassinations.

[Alverant]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

My theory is that an honest business man who got rich would be less likely to abandon his/her business to become a hero. While a dishonest business man who got rich would be more likely to engage in other criminal activities to increase their wealth.

 

Those who inherit would become heroes to prove to themselves since they got their wealth by doing nothing or feel that by being rich they have an obligation to help others. OTOH inheriting wealth could mean not understanding the value of money or working and might not care how their actions affect others or feel they are entitled to their position and would do anything to maintain it.

 

It comes down to what makes a better story.

[fbdaury]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

My main COH character- the only 50 I've gotten so far is Dynamic Concepts, an inventor who tired of his smallish design company getting passed over for government contracts in favor of companies run by High Tech heroes- so he designed and built a powersuit that provides him with powerful electrical generation abilities and set out to make a name for his company, even taking the company name as his hero title. He has since become more concerned with heroics but still does a large deal of the inventing/design for his company while allowing trusted employees to run the day to day operations. I've since created a number of other characters whose backstory involves technology provided by DC's company to help further the cause of justice.

[Mister E]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

Ben: "Shut up shut up shut up shut up."

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Lawnmower Boy again.

[wilsonstone]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

Certainly there's been a villain who killed their wealthy parents for their inheritance early.

Arcade. Though his Modus operandi is 30 years old.

[wilsonstone]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

But' date=' isnt Stark a villain, *cough, cough* Civil War *cough*[/quote']

Lol...I hated civil war. It really ruined Iron Man for me and I was a fan since the 70s! I'm sure its been retconned, and I kinda hope so.

[Arkham]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

5. Stephen Strange. Started middle class, and became rich by being the world's best neurosurgeon back in the day.

It's not certain how much money he has now, but have you seen his house?

 

One early story involved Dr. Strange having money problems in the "I've been saving the world instead of paying my bills!" sort of Spiderman-ish way. He does some dumb things for an issue or two until the writer goes, "This plotline is stupid" and he magically creates a giant pile of gold. Problem solved.

[Mathew]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

In the Marvel comics didn't Tony Stark loose his company and have to rebuild it? So technically his CURRENT fortune is self-made.

[Christopher]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

In the Marvel comics didn't Tony Stark loose his company and have to rebuild it? So technically his CURRENT fortune is self-made.

Did he ever started from "No money, no Friends, no technical genius, no famoues name"? Or did he always had some of this to smooth the way a lot compared to Lex Luthor?

[Clonus]

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

 

Did he ever started from "No money' date=' no Friends, no technical genius, no famoues name"? Or did he always had some of this to smooth the way a lot compared to Lex Luthor?[/quote']

 

The Byrne Luthor started by getting something more than a million bucks through a criminal act. The more recent Luthor has the technical genius AND the stolen money.