Welcoming Women Who Game

[Lucius]

Empowering the Voices of Women: (Total: 131 Active Cost, 18 Real Cost)

Welcoming Atmosphere: Change Environment (Long-Lasting Permanent), Area Of Effect (1 2m Areas; +1/2), Fixed Shape: Thread (-1/4), MegaScale (1m = The Whole Thread; +1) (36 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Extra Time (20 Minutes, Only to Activate, -1 1/4), No Range - Just One Thread (-1/2), Welcoming Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2), Required Multiple Users ([3-4] people already in the thread; -1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Incantations "Please come to http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/87220-The-quot-Essay-quot-(ESSE-UEH)-Project(Warning-mature-controversial-content-contained-herein)?p=2229204#post2229204 and give us the benefit of your point of view" (-1/4), Only In Alternate Identity: Online Persona (-1/4)(Real Cost: 5)

plus

Inviting Participation: Summon 8 400-point Female Hero Gamers (95 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Extra Time (20 Minutes, Only to Activate, -1 1/4), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2), Summoned Being Must Already be a Member the Forum (-1/2), Strong-Willed, in my experience of women who game +4 on EGO Rolls (-1/2), Welcoming Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2), Required Multiple Users ([3-4] people already in the thread; -1/2), Antagonistic (Arrives under no control or compulsion) (-1/4), Incantations "Please come to http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/87220-The-quot-Essay-quot-(ESSE-UEH)-Project(Warning-mature-controversial-content-contained-herein)?p=2229204#post2229204 and give us the benefit of your point of view" (-1/4), Only In Alternate Identity: Online Persona (-1/4) (Real Cost: 13)

 

Or I could just try Persuasion I suppose.....

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wonders if it needs "Transdimensional" to influence cyberspace

[Steve]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

Very nice, Lucius. Everyone who reads this thread, rep him!

[Vondy]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

Change Environment to Clean, Well-Lighted Place with Bathed and Groomed Inhabitants.

 

Or would that be XDM?

[Mister E]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

As an extension of a sense belonging (clairvoyant?) I'd say anybody who posts on this thread is of one class of minds.

[Tasha]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

Change Environment to Clean, Well-Lighted Place with Bathed and Groomed Inhabitants.

 

Or would that be XDM?

 

All that and Clean Bathrooms! Also Inhabitants that treat me as a person and not a potential date or something that needs to be saved (ie treated with respect)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Lucius again.

[Lucius]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be working.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/87220-The-quot-Essay-quot-(ESSE-UEH)-Project(Warning-mature-controversial-content-contained-herein)

 

has over 100 posts, but none of them from women yet.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary adds "that you know of."

[Tasha]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

Unfortunately it doesn's seem to be working.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/87220-The-quot-Essay-quot-(ESSE-UEH)-Project(Warning-mature-controversial-content-contained-herein)

 

has over 100 posts, but none of them from women yet.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary adds "that you know of."

 

I had to have given you rep before. It certainly won't at the moment saying that I have to spread around some rep before giving it to Lucius again.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

All that and Clean Bathrooms! Also Inhabitants that treat me as a person and not a potential date or something that needs to be saved (ie treated with respect)

 

I am being a little facetious here, but...OK, clean bathrooms in a single man's enclave? Clean to the average lady's no-hovering standard? I think someone already suggested XDM, so that was a little redundant.

 

The thing that you have to always understand about men is that when we meet any woman who is within our parameters for attraction, we automatically see them as a potential date. Always. Many of us are more adept at hiding this than others, but the thought still passes through our minds until we have explored its feasibility. This may take a few seconds, or we may obsess about it for years, but don't for a second fool yourself into thinking we don't see you that way. The key is to be more subtle and realistic about these things, and learn to let it go when it's not a likely outcome, which most of us figure out at some point in adolescence.

 

Not being a woman, I suppose I can't really grasp how annoying the knight in shining armor thing can be when it is neither solicited nor warranted. I think it's a default mode for many young men, even the ones who don't spend all their time pretending to be paladins and the like. It's another thing that you have to grow out of.

 

Anyway, I'll stop joking around and flirting with a full-on derail. I will rep Lucius if I am able.

 

EDIT: Damn, I can't rep Lucius again yet.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

I tried to rep him just because so many people can't. I couldn't either...

[Lucius]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

The thing is, I was trying to solicit participation for this thread

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/87220-The-quot-Essay-quot-(ESSE-UEH)-Project(Warning-mature-controversial-content-contained-herein)

 

After these recent posts therein

 

I would like to see some female participation in this thread. I know I've been largely writing up example abilities from a Hetero Male protagonist/antagonist perspective, but I think most of them could be readily adjusted/used by Hetero Female, Homosexual Male, Bisexual, Lesbian or Transgender characters against a variety of targets. Some of what Mr. E mentioned above makes me wonder how one would go about writing up an ability that would make a character extremely desirable without actually being considered coercive or unduly manipulative.

 

He was the first to comment on something I noticed from the first page of the thread: that although we have notable female regulars here on herogames.com none of them were in our thread. In fact, it had already stuck me that it was mostly a handful of us posting, all male. My response to the above was

 

This was the 100th post. So far, not a single post from a female point of view.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that mine is now the 101st post

 

Well, it's not necessarily easy to find this thread. One had to have been following the Heightened Libido thread(which itself did not get much female interest/participation), or to be wandering around the forums. I think, in terms of subject matter, romance/eroticism/sex is equally interesting to both genders, including in an RPG context. However, I think it's also easy, when only one gender is giving their "take" on the subject matter, to cross invisible lines that make the other gender tend to either lose interest or feel a bit put off/alienated. I don't think, to this point, we've posted anything that's too blatantly offensive(I could certainly be mistaken on this point), but I also think we haven't necessarily posted anything that would be specifically appealing to the interests of female gamers, whatever their orientation. If we have, I'd love to hear from someone about it.

 

I could suggest writing more about romance in Hero System, but that in itself would be stereotyping. My wife reads/watches as much erotica as I do. Now, the stuff she reads is written a bit differently than mine, but nonetheless it's pretty explicit. There are fictional genres specifically written to appeal to women--bishonen and reverse harem anime/manga, shows like BTVS, and so forth.

 

On the topic of gender stereotyping, I give you this:

A man has claimed that his wife was raped by an 'invisible man', Sin Chew Daily reported.

 

The youth, in his 20s, said his wife would remove her clothing, touch her own body and moan while sleeping at night, since a month ago.

 

He sought help from a medium, who then told him that someone had used black magic to take away the wife's 'soul' and rape her.

 

The couple, from Bintulu, Sarawak, lodged a police report but the cops could not do anything to arrest the 'invisible man'.

 

Whereupon I posted the Power write up above, and then started this thread to repost it here in order to address

 

Well' date=' it's not necessarily easy to find this thread. One had to have been following the Heightened Libido thread(which itself did not get much female interest/participation), or to be wandering around the forums.[/quote']

 

So far it's gotten me praise, which is nice, but it's still failing of its purpose of proving that megaplayboy was right in saying

 

I think' date=' in terms of subject matter, romance/eroticism/sex is equally interesting to both genders, including in an RPG context. [/quote']

 

At this point I think I'd be happy to see a woman in the thread even if she's there to insult us and tell us what we're doing wrong. The thread doesn't even have a bathroom let alone a dirty one so it can't be that.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Despite the palindromedary's insinuations it's not me either. I've been in lots of threads that were not abandoned by women when I showed up.

[Tasha]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

The thing is, I was trying to solicit participation for this thread

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/87220-The-quot-Essay-quot-(ESSE-UEH)-Project(Warning-mature-controversial-content-contained-herein)

 

After these recent posts therein

 

 

 

He was the first to comment on something I noticed from the first page of the thread: that although we have notable female regulars here on herogames.com none of them were in our thread. In fact, it had already stuck me that it was mostly a handful of us posting, all male. My response to the above was

 

 

 

 

 

Whereupon I posted the Power write up above, and then started this thread to repost it here in order to address

 

 

 

So far it's gotten me praise, which is nice, but it's still failing of its purpose of proving that megaplayboy was right in saying

 

 

 

At this point I think I'd be happy to see a woman in the thread even if she's there to insult us and tell us what we're doing wrong. The thread doesn't even have a bathroom let alone a dirty one so it can't be that.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Despite the palindromedary's insinuations it's not me either. I've been in lots of threads that were not abandoned by women when I showed up.

 

I looked in the thread you mentioned. It didn't interest me. It treads into areas that I don't go in my Gaming. Romance is ok, anything beyond the Fade to black and the Implied act is something that I don't need in my gaming. Characters with some of the abilities mentioned in that other thread would probably get a WTF reaction from me. I can't speak for the other Ladies of Hero, but it's safest to stay out of such threads.

[Tasha]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

I am being a little facetious here, but...OK, clean bathrooms in a single man's enclave? Clean to the average lady's no-hovering standard? I think someone already suggested XDM, so that was a little redundant.

 

The thing that you have to always understand about men is that when we meet any woman who is within our parameters for attraction, we automatically see them as a potential date. Always. Many of us are more adept at hiding this than others, but the thought still passes through our minds until we have explored its feasibility. This may take a few seconds, or we may obsess about it for years, but don't for a second fool yourself into thinking we don't see you that way. The key is to be more subtle and realistic about these things, and learn to let it go when it's not a likely outcome, which most of us figure out at some point in adolescence.

 

Not being a woman, I suppose I can't really grasp how annoying the knight in shining armor thing can be when it is neither solicited nor warranted. I think it's a default mode for many young men, even the ones who don't spend all their time pretending to be paladins and the like. It's another thing that you have to grow out of.

 

Anyway, I'll stop joking around and flirting with a full-on derail. I will rep Lucius if I am able.

 

EDIT: Damn, I can't rep Lucius again yet.

 

BTW how to clean your Bathroom to standards that the average woman would feel ok with is a VERY important skill to gain for the Single Guy. Even if your bathroom is a disaster area all other nights of the week, taking the flamethrower to the nastyness is very appreciated for Gaming nights. (also leaving out a container of Disinfecting wipes near the Toilet can help prevent hovering). When Dating you will want to bring your new girlfriend home, it helps her impression of you if your bathroom and kitchen are clean.

 

I don't care what the guys are thinking, I can't stop that. Just curb the impulse to assume that I am a helpless little kitten. Also curb the impulse to try to flirt etc. I am there to game with you. I guess what I am saying is to not act on your male impulses. LOL.

[Lucius]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

I looked in the thread you mentioned. It didn't interest me. It treads into areas that I don't go in my Gaming. Romance is ok' date=' anything beyond the Fade to black and the Implied act is something that I don't need in my gaming. Characters with some of the abilities mentioned in that other thread would probably get a WTF reaction from me. I can't speak for the other Ladies of Hero, but it's safest to stay out of such threads.[/quote']

 

Mind if I quote you on that?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says I just did

[megaplayboy]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

Actually, we probably could stand to address RPG romance more generally and devote a few posts to the plot dynamics of dating, courtship, and short and long term relationships. Some of the material already posted isn't of the "flavor" that many gamers might be comfortable with, though it is at least illustrative of a direction one could go if one wished to. I don't particularly assume that female gamers are more(or less) interested in romantic, erotic or sexual themes or storylines, but to the extent that they are, any input, feedback or participation in the thread in question would be appreciated. If there's something particularly offensive on there, feel free to PM me and we can address it in an appropriate manner.

 

One "significant other DNPC" trope that occurs to me is the one where the hero(ine), who has a secret ID, is frequently having trouble showing up on time(or at all) for dates, and makes frequent excuses for doing so. IRL this would cause a lot of tension, and might lead to the SO thinking the character is cheating on them. Suppose your DNPC hires Cheaters, Inc. to follow you around for a couple weeks!

[薔薇語]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

...Some of the material already posted isn't of the "flavor" that many gamers might be comfortable with...

 

I looked in the thread you mentioned. It didn't interest me. It treads into areas that I don't go in my Gaming. Romance is ok' date=' anything beyond the Fade to black and the Implied act is something that I don't need in my gaming. Characters with some of the abilities mentioned in that other thread would probably get a WTF reaction from me. I can't speak for the other Ladies of Hero, but it's safest to stay out of such threads.[/quote']

 

I'm with Tasha on this one. That subject matter isn't even one I want to go into during a game. Eventhough the character I used for my board persona (The Rose) is / was a lech of a person - I prefer the debauchery stay far off screen. I can recall once I was running a game with one of my exes and she decided to become more provocative and explicit in one of the 'encounters' she was having. She did it purposely because it made me feel uncomfortable (me, a 17year old boy at the time). And I have not eased up on my prudishness since then.

 

I would imagine that this is a subject matter that most female gamers don't like to discuss simply because it too often leads to male-centric fantasy land and thus become well over sexualized in that manner too.

 

Now, if you want to talk about dating / romantic intrigue in a setting, I may recommend looking at the volumes and volumes of Anime and Manga that deal solely with the issues of dating, etc. Texts and shows that are oriented for young ladies and thus avoid some of the debauchery that would otherwise be a turn off. There was one anime made int his vane that I truly enjoyed, too: Tora Dora. And I know there are examples of alternate IDs, etc., being used as the background in several of them (Heck, Sailor Moon did it), but they don't spring to my mind all that readily.

 

La Rose.

[danbuter1]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

I've never had a problem with women gaming. It's the other guys at the table while she's there that cause the problems.

 

In addition, is this the "cool" thread for october? I've seen variations of it on every major rpg board.

[Ragitsu]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

BTW how to clean your Bathroom to standards that the average woman would feel ok with is a VERY important skill to gain for the Single Guy. Even if your bathroom is a disaster area all other nights of the week, taking the flamethrower to the nastyness is very appreciated for Gaming nights. (also leaving out a container of Disinfecting wipes near the Toilet can help prevent hovering). When Dating you will want to bring your new girlfriend home, it helps her impression of you if your bathroom and kitchen are clean.

 

I don't care what the guys are thinking, I can't stop that. Just curb the impulse to assume that I am a helpless little kitten. Also curb the impulse to try to flirt etc. I am there to game with you. I guess what I am saying is to not act on your male impulses. LOL.

 

You know, stereotypes are a two-way street, and any time a topic comes up (not just on the HERO forums, mind you) on "Female Gamers" (who are somehow automatically more special and interesting than Male Gamers), I see a lot of blame sent just one-way down that same street, with the apparent onus also sent down that way as well...as if they are always to blame and/or must make up for the reprehensible behavior of other males.

 

It's a little tiring, and a little insulting to not only read the hate, but to see everyone okay with the apparent unspoken assumption that Female Gamers can do no wrong (because I rarely hear stories of Female Gamers doing bad things, so either one gender really is "bad", or there isn't enough data on the other that you don't hear much bad about...or the bad takes a different form).

[megaplayboy]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

Well, I think the male-centered thing can also happen when the distaff side of the gaming table surrenders the field. I tend to prefer dialogue to monologue. I don't always enjoy what my wife has to say about what I think or do, but I generally appreciate the feedback. Similarly, if my female gaming colleagues have a different take or preferences from my own, or even some qualms about mine, I won't minimize their input, but will do my best to welcome it.

 

As I noted, we could use more material in that thread vis a vis plain old romance, dating, etc. --from anyone and everyone. It's not just about super-getting-laid-powers or mind-rapey-kinda-powers or me-love-you-long-time-powers (though, in their proper context, I don't think there's anything particularly wrong about being able to simulate genres where those powers exist), it's about addressing what is admittedly a sensitive issue, the broader topic of romance, eroticism and sex in the Hero System and in RPGs more generally. I acknowledge there are different campaign styles and some will "fade to black" and some will go further than that.

[Ragitsu]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

I acknowledge there are different campaign styles and some will "fade to black" and some will go further than that.

 

On the American front, this is significantly backed by the general nation-wide (and mostly unspoken) consensus that violence is to be glorified and tolerated, while sex/sexuality is something to be downplayed.

[Lucius]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

I had to have given you rep before. It certainly won't at the moment saying that I have to spread around some rep before giving it to Lucius again.

 

Was it the first post in the thread you were trying to reputize?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary has a Y chromosome and a Y-not? chromosome

[Christopher]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

I tried to rep him just because so many people can't. I couldn't either...

Can't hit him for at least two or three good posts in a row. I could write up wich posts I missed, but that list would just grow and never shrink again.

 

I looked in the thread you mentioned. It didn't interest me. It treads into areas that I don't go in my Gaming. Romance is ok' date=' anything beyond the Fade to black and the Implied act is something that I don't need in my gaming. Characters with some of the abilities mentioned in that other thread would probably get a WTF reaction from me. I can't speak for the other Ladies of Hero, but it's safest to stay out of such threads.[/quote']

I followed to begin with, but the long posts and overall theme drove me off too. I recently deleted it from my subscriptions, since there was to much I had missed already.

 

Oddly, I strongly prefer women as characters in MMORPG's and RPG's (I think because I have little in common with most man anyway). I generally eshew the "most common superpower" or even revealing costumes in their design. Most of them are what I see as decent, mature women in terms of sexuality and relationships (wich means: First you respect someone, then you date someone for some weeks, then there is perhaps more). So no "landing in the wrong bed", one-night-stands or "relationships should start with both landing in the bed" (one of the most unrealistic things I have seen in the media so far).

Once in a while I have the idea for a heroine with "tangible sexuality". But they tend to be to most emotionally stable, least likely to ever start something with a teammember (and if, then nothing under a serious relationship; no affairs or one-nights), orrientation/activity is generally hinted but not shown and combined with the fade to black/fade from black you mentioned.

I am more interested in the practical uses of potentially sexuall practical powers. For example, an adaption of the D&D Sucubus would include:

Generally half/zero END on X STR, not only for the one thing

Shapeshifting and thats useable/a factor as a power in game and maybe factor for the Secret ID(s)

I usually go first for high Presence, then SA. But I am more likely to just buy normal PRE anyway. In part because it also acts as defense vs. PRE Attacks/works everytime, every interaction skill with no uncertinity/GM-fiat in it's application. But mostly because I have learned that our measure of atractiveness (when uninfluenced by our hormones and lower instincts) is certinity/perception of the self worth of a person. So a person with certinity about herself (high PRE, decent EGO) will be regarded as atractive/interesting automatically in my understanding. Revealing clothing is a way to show that, but when the behavior does not fit's to the revealing clothing (i.e. the person dresses beyond what is her real certinity to look more certain) it just get's wierd/unatractive for me.

 

Usually my male impulses react to my own design/are the driving force behind it, so I soner or later lose the interest and none got to the playing phase so far (that could be because of my lack of games, of course).

I generally percieve my "manly insticts" as highly anoying and would like to have more controll over them and I think I could life without them. They are mostly in my way.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

Currently in that other thread we're discussing the subject of romance, specifically how to roleplay it. Since people sometimes RP members of a different gender, orientation (or even species), or age, this is actually an area which

1) should be not remotely alienating or offensive to discuss

2) is relevant to almost all campaigns

3) benefits tremendously from diverse viewpoints

 

IOW--"please just show up and give your 2 cents on this specific topic: how do you roleplay romance? how do you think your personal identity(gender, orientation, age, race, class, education, appearance, etc.) affects your perspective on it? Do you have any general thoughts on how these traits affect how people really interact romantically?"

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

I looked in the thread you mentioned. It didn't interest me. It treads into areas that I don't go in my Gaming. Romance is ok' date=' anything beyond the Fade to black and the Implied act is something that I don't need in my gaming. Characters with some of the abilities mentioned in that other thread would probably get a WTF reaction from me. I can't speak for the other Ladies of Hero, but it's safest to stay out of such threads.[/quote']

 

My take on this as well, and I'm a guy... and a hedonist at that.

 

I don't handle romance / sex in my games beyond "Yeah, OK, your character does that, let's move on." I can accept that not all gamers would agree with my methods or opinions on this aspect of role playing, but it works at our table.

[phoenix240]

Re: Welcoming Women Who Game

 

Well, I think the male-centered thing can also happen when the distaff side of the gaming table surrenders the field. I tend to prefer dialogue to monologue. I don't always enjoy what my wife has to say about what I think or do, but I generally appreciate the feedback. Similarly, if my female gaming colleagues have a different take or preferences from my own, or even some qualms about mine, I won't minimize their input, but will do my best to welcome it.

 

As I noted, we could use more material in that thread vis a vis plain old romance, dating, etc. --from anyone and everyone. It's not just about super-getting-laid-powers or mind-rapey-kinda-powers or me-love-you-long-time-powers (though, in their proper context, I don't think there's anything particularly wrong about being able to simulate genres where those powers exist), it's about addressing what is admittedly a sensitive issue, the broader topic of romance, eroticism and sex in the Hero System and in RPGs more generally. I acknowledge there are different campaign styles and some will "fade to black" and some will go further than that.

 

I'll step up and admit our games do go further than that if the players are interested in pursuing it. It's much like combats. Sometimes it's interesting, sometimes you can skip it. I think the fact our campaigns are primarily PBEM is part of the reason for this. Interestingly (and not to discount Tasha's post) I've noticed its mostly female players are most interested in romantic and sexual subplots and story lines.

 

Total aside: but on the bathroom thing, I've worked janitorial duty and Ladies Room are pretty often as or even more repulsive than Men's rooms. lol