Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

[Glupii]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I would also like to add that Killer Shrike is my Hero of HERO. If I had the time to run all the campaigns spawned in my head from reading his ideas, oy.... how many lifetimes would I spend playing? Not such a bad existence really.

[heatmonkey]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I choose it because of familiarity and flexibility. I first encountered Fantasy Hero with version 1. I still have it. That and the companions. I absolutely loved a system that let me craft my own spells, weapons, etc. 6E is considerably more fleshed out and having been away from gaming for so long, it has been a learning curve. But what I loved about it to begin with is still there.

[Stacie.Winters]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

This is a good idea. And not just for fantasy' date=' but for all genres. Recommendations and suggestions for how to balance encounters, things to think about when building your foes (what's the difference between foes with CVs lower than the PCs and those with CVs higher?), exp rewards, handling different types of adventures and/or genres, and so on. In fact, a book such as this would benefit from having numerous authors contribute material and ideas. For my money, I'd like to hear from Scott Bennie, Darren Watts, David Mattingly, teh bunneh, and others with their ideas and opinions on making a game run well and be fun for all.[/quote']

 

I would buy a book that covered all this in a heart beat. Faster than that. A flash.

 

You could call it GMing Hero System (Champions) for Dummies and I'll be the first in line.

 

----

 

Why I am coming back to Hero System... idk exactly why yet. The last time I tried playing in it it was a Champions game and the GM designed each and every major villain with a VPP and when his Wolverine clone who was also attached to a Venom-like Symbiote TPK'd us I quit but...

 

I loved the sheer about of potential possibilities with HS than most other games. It's probably one of the few non-narrative focused games I actually like... didn't like Savage Worlds at all, but HS has so many options... I love it.

 

For fantasy games I am leaning towards HS because I can customize the magic system how I want it, and I can customize the combat rules to be as gritty or as non gritty as best fits the world, and I can detail the races for my worlds and all that good stuff. If I can keep my ADHD. In check then who knows, maybe I will actually come up with something this time around.

 

But, HS is daunting, and can be intimidating, especially to new Hero GMs. Having a book aimed at GMs on running and hacking the game would be very awesome.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I too would love to see a HERO Guide for GM's on running a good game. I think the reason we haven't seen such an animal yet is the percieved lower number of potential buyers. Not everyone who plays HERO runs games with HERO. Maybe a book like this could change that though.

[Armitage]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I too would love to see a HERO Guide for GM's on running a good game. I think the reason we haven't seen such an animal yet is the percieved lower number of potential buyers. Not everyone who plays HERO runs games with HERO. Maybe a book like this could change that though.

 

Plus you'll get the inevitable people shouting "I've been playing RPGs for 20 years! I already know all of this! This is a waste of paper! They should have published something more useful!"

I see it every time a book contains a "how to role-play" or "how to GM" chapter. Some people have an unfortunate tendency to think that every RPG book should be written specifically for them.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

a HERO Guide for GM's on running a good game.

 

Drift on to Susano's website. Control-A. Control-C.

Slide into your campaign folder. Control-V.

 

Done.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Drift on to Susano's website. Control-A. Control-C.

Slide into your campaign folder. Control-V.

 

Done.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, Susano's & Killershrike's sites are 2 of my favorite free fan created resources for HERO. However, I currently see a huge vacuum of published material giving different concrete suggestions on how to balance power levels of PC's & NPC's. Having an official company book as a starting point, whether sitting on a store shelf or company website store, is crucial to getting new players interested and supported. We have plenty of threads here on the board on the subject but very little published material outside of the core books and the APG's which are still on the most part character creation centric (meaning player centric). A Guide for GM's almost demands its own separate vocabulary which is currently brief if even existent.

[BhelliomRahl]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I would be interested in a GM's Guide. I have been GMing for a little over 20yrs, but I still learn new things each time I play from experience or observation. Each System has its own flow, what works for one might not work for another. The GM's Guide to a certain extent gets into the system creators GM mindset which I find to be very help full.

 

Also the Hero System can be a little daunting when first seen from the players' and GM's perspective. As Hyper-Man pointed out most of the books help to walk the player through it but only a little is given for the GM. Most of my players enjoy my Hero System games but would not run it themselves because they are unsure where to begin, to be honest I was not at first. My first game with Hero was good from a story perspective but how I run it with respect to balanced challenges was terrible. I learnt from it and I hope I am a better GM because of it but the Guide would of been useful.

[Vondy]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I understand your point. as to introducing your kids to Hero' date=' I have had a different experience. With my daughter who's 9, she didn't find it overwhelming. But that's because of two things, one since its just her and me, its more one on one. (I can imagine having two to teach at the same time is harder ) And two, (and most importantly, to me) while I gave her character options, they where limited. I have no idea why it seems taboo in this community (though not expressed by all) to dare to put limits on characters, when it teaching new people, regardless of age. Now I understand that if the player gets it, then by all means allow them more options. If it was a different game, would there be such an expectation to know all the rules first? I don't think so.[/quote']

 

Whenever I would introduce a newbie to Hero, I would discuss what they wanted and build their character for them. This was always done with the understanding that, when they started to get a feel for the system, and we'd determined how close I'd gotten, that they would be allowed to rebuild the character. This was especially effective in superheroic games, where character builds are generally more involved.

[Jhaierr]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/88573-Post-your-campaign-setting-supplement?p=2279018#post2279018

 

Let's put this to the test: Is Fantasy Hero really lacking in pre-generated "stuff"?

 

I wonder if it is not that Fantasy Hero lacks pre-generated settings, but that it lacks widely popular (even in the Hero community) pre-generated settings. D&D, meanwhile, has several settings that have been popular over the years and have a definite feel of familiarity and nostalgia when playing them. Likewise, Rolemaster has its Shadow World setting, and so forth.

[Jhaierr]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I would be interested in a GM's Guide. I have been GMing for a little over 20yrs, but I still learn new things each time I play from experience or observation. Each System has its own flow, what works for one might not work for another. The GM's Guide to a certain extent gets into the system creators GM mindset which I find to be very help full.

 

Also the Hero System can be a little daunting when first seen from the players' and GM's perspective. As Hyper-Man pointed out most of the books help to walk the player through it but only a little is given for the GM. Most of my players enjoy my Hero System games but would not run it themselves because they are unsure where to begin, to be honest I was not at first. My first game with Hero was good from a story perspective but how I run it with respect to balanced challenges was terrible. I learnt from it and I hope I am a better GM because of it but the Guide would of been useful.

 

I agree that this would be very good for new and old players/GMs alike. I'm not sure we'd agree on what constitutes "good GMing" or "balanced challenges," but a core book would be a good start.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Never have I regretted my decision to go into s ience rather than computer programming more than while reading this thread.

 

HERO must be the ultimate system to take advantage of the computing resource now available to us. HERO Designer is a great tool for making characters (though I believe much more so often you understand how to do it the hard way).

 

If there was to be a HERO Campaign Guide, then it would be so much more useful if it were ele tonic with the ability to tweak the settings for everything...

 

If I had the turakian Age but wanted things toned down, then there should be a bar that I could do that on, and get appropriately adjusted versions of villains, beasts and spells. It would be impossible for other systems but I think achievable in HERO.

 

Of course it would not be commercially viable, it would need dedication and monomaniacal focus on a game, but I have seen plenty of that around. However, such a tool would make the kind of tweaking that Vondy mentions a doddle...

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I wonder if it is not that Fantasy Hero lacks pre-generated settings' date=' but that it lacks [i']widely popular[/i] (even in the Hero community) pre-generated settings. D&D, meanwhile, has several settings that have been popular over the years and have a definite feel of familiarity and nostalgia when playing them. Likewise, Rolemaster has its Shadow World setting, and so forth.

True. Some enterprising fan should write one.

[tancred]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Never have I regretted my decision to go into s ience rather than computer programming more than while reading this thread.

 

HERO must be the ultimate system to take advantage of the computing resource now available to us. HERO Designer is a great tool for making characters (though I believe much more so often you understand how to do it the hard way).

 

If there was to be a HERO Campaign Guide, then it would be so much more useful if it were ele tonic with the ability to tweak the settings for everything...

 

If I had the turakian Age but wanted things toned down, then there should be a bar that I could do that on, and get appropriately adjusted versions of villains, beasts and spells. It would be impossible for other systems but I think achievable in HERO.

 

Of course it would not be commercially viable, it would need dedication and monomaniacal focus on a game, but I have seen plenty of that around. However, such a tool would make the kind of tweaking that Vondy mentions a doddle...

 

This is exactly the kind of project I would love to tackle.

Except for the minor matter of having to work to support my gaming habit...

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I wonder if it is not that Fantasy Hero lacks pre-generated settings' date=' but that it lacks [i']widely popular[/i] (even in the Hero community) pre-generated settings. D&D, meanwhile, has several settings that have been popular over the years and have a definite feel of familiarity and nostalgia when playing them. Likewise, Rolemaster has its Shadow World setting, and so forth.

 

Hmm. What always surprised me was that mature settings like Greyhawk, have not tried to expand the base of their setting by producing information to allow other settings to be used in it. Rather than repackaging Greyhawk, of the Forgotten Realms for a new generation of D&D player they could produce a HERO gamers guide to Greyhawk and see if they can draw in sales of the setting from other systems...

 

It would need a HERO afficionado to ensure that HERO was not being used to play D&D but that the guidance was there to use the setting to play HERO. But there are lots of mature settings that might sell more if they were easier to use in other systems.

 

 

Doc

[starblaze]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Yeah' date=' I've seen it. It's from the Player's POV but not a GMs. I'd need to know what I can throw at my player's w/o making something impossible for them to beat. So far the best advice I've gotten is to fudge the numbers, but that kind of defeats the point of having a game system to begin with.[/quote']

 

I love how he tells you to READ THE DAMN BOOK!

 

Which more of my players did that.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

It's all about Rock, Paper, Scissors.

 

There simply aren't enough points for a player to make a character that can be the best at everything. You want to challenge the fighter? Make him go up against a creature that can attack his mind. Or Entangle him. Or drains basic characteristics (especially Speed. They hate that one!). Want to challenge the theif? He might be a master trap detector, but what about magical traps? Want to challenge the party mage? He might be able to slay armies with his Chain Lighting spells and sway Emperor's with Mind Control, but lets see how he deals with a tomb that has anti-magical properties and gets a face full of Rot-Grubs. Hard to concentrate on casting a spell of doom when there are little maggots burrowing into your FACE!

 

Really, challenging players isn't so difficult, no matter how powerful they are. Sometimes it simply means hitting them from a different direction, even if at times that means from below the belt!

[gojira]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I wonder if it is not that Fantasy Hero lacks pre-generated settings' date=' but that it lacks [i']widely popular[/i] (even in the Hero community) pre-generated settings.

 

It's ironic that someone would make this statement while there's a kickstarter for a fantasy setting for Hero, Narosia, that is not even half way to its funding goal and less that a week left to fund it. Either there's no way to make a setting "wildly popular" with Hero's customer numbers, or Hero's customers just aren't into pregenerated settings. Or maybe there's some other reason, I can't really tell.

[Orion]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Either there's no way to make a setting "wildly popular" with Hero's customer numbers' date=' or Hero's customers just aren't into pregenerated settings.[/quote']

 

This. In my experience, almost all gamers, regardless of the system or genre, want a generic world. If doing fantasy, they want elves and dwarves, chain mail and plate, magical sword, and fireball throwing mages. They don't care what the name of the city is, the name of old king whose tomb they are robbing, the culutre and hostory of the kingdom, or the politics between the nobles, high priests, and merchants. The don't want maps with beautiful artistry and well-thought out geography, or a working ecology that includes monsters, they just want to know how many days it is to the dungeon, and and whether wolves attack them while they are sleeping in their armor. Settings are to make the GM happy, not the players.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

It's ironic that someone would make this statement while there's a kickstarter for a fantasy setting for Hero, Narosia, that is not even half way to its funding goal and less that a week left to fund it. Either there's no way to make a setting "wildly popular" with Hero's customer numbers, or Hero's customers just aren't into pregenerated settings. Or maybe there's some other reason, I can't really tell.

 

I think it's that the vast majority of the HERO community plays mostly Champions and those who do play Fantasy (or sci-fi etc) already have campaign settings they have established, whether its a setting belonging to another system, a generic setting like HARM or one they created themselves. I think it stems from the fact that it simply took way too long before Hero came out with a dedicated Fantasy campaign setting. Aside from the attempt at doing Shadow World with Hero stats, it wasn't until the 5th edition that Hero got any dedicated settings aside from the Champions Universe. By that time the majority of us long-time Hero players who were inclined to play Fantasy or some other Heroic type game had to come up with settings from somewhere, so we did. It was a case of "too late" on the part of Hero Games/DoJ.

 

This. In my experience, almost all gamers, regardless of the system or genre, want a generic world. If doing fantasy, they want elves and dwarves, chain mail and plate, magical sword, and fireball throwing mages. They don't care what the name of the city is, the name of old king whose tomb they are robbing, the culutre and hostory of the kingdom, or the politics between the nobles, high priests, and merchants. The don't want maps with beautiful artistry and well-thought out geography, or a working ecology that includes monsters, they just want to know how many days it is to the dungeon, and and whether wolves attack them while they are sleeping in their armor. Settings are to make the GM happy, not the players.

 

D&D players maybe. You might be surprised at the number of players I have encountered who absolutely loved the details in one setting or another. One of the game setting that has this going for it right now is Exalted. On the Exalted forums, there are tons of discussion about various aspects of the campaign setting, the who, what and where, that have little to do with the mechanical aspects of the game system. The players I have also love this sort of thing. Of course, they are heavy Roleplayers and they love the social aspect to the campaign setting we were last playing. The Who, What and Where became an incredibly important aspect to the plot and I believe the players became more invested in what was going on because of that focus, rather than just going from one dungeon to the next looking for loot.

[Old Man]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

This. In my experience' date=' almost all gamers, regardless of the system or genre, want a generic world. If doing fantasy, they want elves and dwarves, chain mail and plate, magical sword, and fireball throwing mages. They don't care what the name of the city is, the name of old king whose tomb they are robbing, the culutre and hostory of the kingdom, or the politics between the nobles, high priests, and merchants. The don't want maps with beautiful artistry and well-thought out geography, or a working ecology that includes monsters, they just want to know how many days it is to the dungeon, and and whether wolves attack them while they are sleeping in their armor. Settings are to make the GM happy, not the players.[/quote']

 

I think the real issue is the lack of support the Hero settings get. The setting books are great but without crunchy sourcebooks and pregenerated adventures they're just relatively useless background material. I know that sourcebooks and canned adventures can't possibly make money but I have stated earlier that you need to lower the barrier to entry for new players and GMs, especially in Hero, and you do that by handing them everything they need to start playing in five minutes. Hero surely wouldn't have the reputation for complexity that it does if new players could skip over the character creation process. And it's galling that the best source for Fantasy Hero canned adventures, in 2012, is still converted AD&D modules.

 

Once players have a few good adventures/sessions under their belts, and start encountering interesting politics and beings, then they will start caring what hex they were in on the Greyhawk map. And as more players play published adventures, they will have shared experiences that build up the Hero community. Even here, we discuss what happened when we went through the Caves of Chaos for the fifth time, or how far we got into Tomb of Horrors before TPK. Where is Fantasy Hero's Keep on the Borderlands?

[gojira]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I think I might agree with the Old Man, at least partially. I was going to add, on my own, that Wizards/DnD seems to have one setting, at any given time, and to put all of their resources (writing, printing, advertising, etc.) behind that one setting. Which is what it seems to take to make a setting "wildly popular." What appears to not work is the shotgun approach, where you sort of spray your resources around and hope something hits.

 

There's a new adventure, Tangent One, just announced. It's a system-less adventure for a fantasy RPG. While that's a neat idea, I find myself wondering how useful it could really be, with no stats for monsters or other details. It's those details which save me time, or most of my time anyway. But it illustrates the problem that Hero Games currently has so many fantasy campaigns going that supporting just one isn't really possible.

 

For two bucks, I might chance a purchase, just to see what it's like. But I'm still kind of dubious of the concept of a system-less adventure.

[Escafarc]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I think maybe "campaign" length adventures like the Temple of Elemental Evil and the Queen of the Demon Webs not tied to any particular world that could be plug in to any game would be more useful.

[gojira]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Just to toss some more virtual bread crumbs out while feeding the pigeons, DnD has a much more rigidly defined system. Queen of the Demon Webs could put "For level 10th-16th adventurers" and have a ready market. In Hero, it's not so clear what you put on the outside of your adventure module to let folks know what to expect inside.

[Escafarc]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Just to toss some more virtual bread crumbs out while feeding the pigeons' date=' DnD has a much more rigidly defined system. Queen of the Demon Webs could put "For level 10th-16th adventurers" and have a ready market. In Hero, it's not so clear what you put on the outside of your adventure module to let folks know what to expect inside.[/quote']

I was thinking of the one that combined the G,D,and Q modules and the ToEE which started at 1st level and went up to 12th+(?} they could be used to run a whole campaign.