Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

[Vondy]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

This sounds sort of like you're giving xD&D a pass on the same things you're criticizing Hero for. Maybe I'm misreading you' date=' but it sounds like you don't necessarily like everything about the pre-provided xD&D material (at least the magic; you don't say one way or the other for the monsters), but you use it anyway because it's faster. But with Hero, you say you "have" to tweak the spells or the monsters before use because they're generic and "not setting or campaign specific."[/quote']

 

YI used the default mechanical assumptions imposed by xD&D as a system and extrapolated settings from there. Ergo, I left the magic, monsters, and level-implied power structure untouched. I never tweaked the underlying structure that ran the setting. With Hero such tweaking is mandatory just to get started.

 

Does this mean you use the standard xD&D campaign setting? I can see how playing within a pre-provided setting could make GMing much easier' date=' but I'd think the same would be true for Hero.[/quote']

 

When I did run established settings (e.g., al-Qadim) I generally made a few edits, but editing fluffy word data is much simpler than editing the crunchy mechanical assumptions inherent in a system. I can make a world up in my head and run it on the fly so long as the essential crunchy bits are well-ordered. With Hero I have to order the crunchy bits, too. Its the difference between a cosmetic and major transform.

 

(Though perhaps not to the same extent, since Hero settings generally can't match the volumes of material available for them that xD&D settings have.)

 

Just to quibble slightly, I think it's fairer to say that the number of Hero customers doesn't justify supporting the settings (by being numerous enough to buy enough of the setting core book to justify further books for the setting.) I'm sure Hero would be more than happy to make whatever books will sell.

 

At risk of derailing my own subthread here (and just observing in general, not aiming these thoughts at Vondy specifically, or attributing the opposing position to him), I think a lot of folks overlook how far separated the apple and orange are when they talk about how TSR/WotC "supports" their published fantasy settings, and Hero doesn't. It's because what's practical for xD&D is just utterly different from what's practical for Hero.

 

For virtually every game system, the core rules sell the most, and every "branch" further out the product tree a given book is, the less it will sell (because many customers who bought the "parent" book will not buy the "child" book, but almost no one is going to buy the child book without the parent book). So the core book sells N copies. The world book sells .5N copies. The kingdom book sells .25N copies. The city book sells .125N copies. The adventure-in-that-city sells .0625N copies.

 

Whether that approach is feasible or not depends entirely upon how many players you're starting with at N. xD&D can get down to much smaller percentages of N than Hero can before the raw numbers of sales get so low that the product can't be profitable.

 

This is an economic argument rather than a system argument. Also, the reality you describe is an economic catch-22. Modules are effectively a loss leader or break even product that keeps your consumer-base for the money makers alive. As Old Man says...

 

Oh' date=' I understand that there is no money to be made in printing modules. But my point, which I have been repeating for the past couple of decades or so, is that you still need them to create and support a customer base. Look at how many people just in this thread are posting "I love FH but it is too much work." A majority of my best FH experiences came out of converted D&D modules. Isn't that sad?[/color'][/Quote]

 

 

Okay' date=' gotcha. Thanks! [/quote']

 

You're welcome.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

That would be cool. It makes me wonder about setting' date=' though.[/quote']

 

There are third-party settings for Fantasy Hero, apart from the four published by Hero Games for 5E. The ones I know of are Kamarathin by D3 Games, The Echoes of Heaven by Final Redoubt Press, and The Last Dominion by Pencil Pushers Publishing. The first two of those also have adventures available. So adventures for any/all of those settings might be possible too, if their makers want to make them (or allow them).

 

Plus, of course, someone could always do another third-party setting and set adventures there...

 

Hero's fantasy settings (Turakian, Valdorian and Atlantean Ages and Tuala Morn) are part of Hero's IP.

 

If Jason's OK with third-party modules in these settings, it would be great. If not, I wonder if these board members might not come up with a setting we could all use for third-party modules.

 

They've been open in the past. For example, Chasing A Golden Buck by Beautifulharmony Multimedia is an adventure for The Valdorian Age.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

There are third-party settings for Fantasy Hero' date=' apart from the four published by Hero Games for 5E. The ones I know of are [b']Kamarathin[/b] by D3 Games, The Echoes of Heaven by Final Redoubt Press, and The Last Dominion by Pencil Pushers Publishing. The first two of those also have adventures available. So adventures for any/all of those settings might be possible too, if their makers want to make them (or allow them).

I would be more than happy to discuss licensing out Kamarathin for 3rd (4th...?) parties to write adventures if anyone is interested.

[Barwickian]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I would be more than happy to discuss licensing out Kamarathin for 3rd (4th...?) parties to write adventures if anyone is interested.

 

Let me actually get the Kamarinthin setting (and other settings) and I'll see (couple of days - I'm making a point of ordering Hero stuff through the Hero store every payday).

 

My concern, however, is maximising utility. I want to do something aimed at broad appeal, and do it for free. Aimed at noobs, perhaps no more than "of interest" to experienced herophiles.

 

If the old models still hold firm, then core rules are the maximum target pool. Settings are a subset.

 

I'm figuring on maximising the pool by aiming at the core rules (actually, aiming at the basic rules, but core expands on those). Anything I make should have the setting as an optional extra - if you want to extend the campaign, you should have the setting, but if you want just what's in the pack istelf, you don't need the setting.

 

IN some ways, it's both a how-to and a teaser.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Very odd. I've read many posts in this thread regarding the downside of Fantasy Hero being the extra GM effort involved. I find this amusing as the primary reason I (as a GM) use Hero is that I'm lazy - too lazy to learn any other game system well enough to be comfortable running it.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Mind you that, when I want a highly customized magic system, I do want Hero. Just wanted to throw that out there as my counterpoint the "required work == downside" point I made above.

[Tasha]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Is pick-up-and-go how you run a campaign? I'm genuinely asking... I'm trying to see why my experiences seem to be different than most. Because yes, when setting up a Fantasy Hero campaign, you have to do a fair amount of legwork in choosing/defining magic system, templates (if you want to use those), etc. if you're not using a pre-made setting. But I did a lot of the same things when I ran xD&D, and it seemed like just as much work.

 

I'm guessing that maybe I was very unusual in using homemade settings for xD&D? I'm starting to wonder if that's my disconnect... if the "xD&D is less work" or "xD&D is easier for newbies" viewpoints, are assuming that playing xD&D automatically means playing in a standard xD&D setting. If so, I'd say it's the using of the pre-made setting that's making it faster/easier, not using xD&D per se. (Though I realize xD&D builds a default setting into the rules, so I totally understand why others might not separate the two in their thoughts.)

 

 

 

Yeah, that sounds like it could have been me. I could see the argument that it might be easier to make a xD&D character, because you're mostly choosing from lists of options at various stages of character construction. (I'm not convinced it's easier, since you're essentially still choosing from lists of options with Hero too, just not so much with particular special effects attached to them.) But faster? Nah, not really... especially not under 3.x, where so much optimizing and planning out of the character's ultimate growth path seems to go on. Sure, making a 1st level character with no eye to the future might be fairly quick, but then, making a 50-point Fantasy Hero character doesn't take that long either...

 

in 1e/2e D&D we had quite a list of houserules for making the game less annoying. In 3e/3.5 we didn't really tweak the rules much if at all, same with Pathfinder. In Hero 5e/6e there is MUCH more work up front. Creating Magic Spells/NPCs/Monsters, even with Grimoires and Bestiaries. I find that with the Grimoire that I need to fiddle with Powerlevels and decide what version of the spell that fits the game. Same with the Bestiary I find that I end up having to tweak every creature in there. There's nothing in Fantasy Hero that I can just pick up a few books and start to play that doesn't entail a ton of work. It's because even the settings feel quite generic. Like they are missing that spark that I the GM must supply to make them vital and want to play in them.

 

Then there's the other problem with Fantasy Hero. That's Power stagnation. Most Hero players and GM's seem to be quite afraid to ever push the powerlevel up and when they do it's never very much. I understand that they do that to prevent all of that upfront work to be rendered obsolete. Also, because it can be hard to find the right balance in challenge, so when a GM does find that balance they are reluctant to change anything. In D&D Characters get more powerful as they gain levels. That means that eventually if you play long enough D&D characters will be playing on the level of the established NPCs of the setting.

[incrdbil]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Simply put, with HERO we can play the fabtasy genre we want to emulate--not the hardwired too deeply ingrained in D&D or Pathfinder mechanics. And, most of all, no classes, no levels, no Armor Class, no hit points, no straighjackets on abilities or skills, and damage and defense mechanics that make sense, that don't enforce a nonsensical healing scheme to support the cludgy hit point mechanic.

 

(Hit points traditionally are said to reflect not just the capcity to take damage but luck, talent and skill..then why does it take potent healing spells to replenish that?)

[Escafarc]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I make encourage my players to do the heavy lifting when it comes to the magic system. Work smarter not harder.

[Old Man]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I make encourage my players to do the heavy lifting when it comes to the magic system. Work smarter not harder.

 

A good approach, and one I've used in the past. But you have to be careful because I some players will try to take advantage of it...

[Ternaugh]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Very odd. I've read many posts in this thread regarding the downside of Fantasy Hero being the extra GM effort involved. I find this amusing as the primary reason I (as a GM) use Hero is that I'm lazy - too lazy to learn any other game system well enough to be comfortable running it.

 

I'm personally looking at Savage Worlds for a simple system that I can present to my players. We already play Deadlands, so some of the mechanics will be fairly familiar. Their fantasy supplement has plenty of pre-crunched stuff in it that will allow me to concentrate more on designing the setting. In many ways, it reminds me of the mindset that FH for 4th edition had--lots of stuff to get you playing right away. And while I think that FH for 5th* is a great book, it's more of a manual of how to build everything yourself, rather than a way to launch a quick game.

 

I'm also not really comfortable with running stuff in 6th. There are just enough changes in characters and powers that I'd have to break down and really study the rules. And that's something that my players have basically said that they don't want to do.

 

JoeG

*I do wish that FH for 6th had more of the pre-crunched stuff--it could replace the (in my opinion) excessive flavor quotes.

[casualplayer]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

in 1e/2e D&D we had quite a list of houserules for making the game less annoying. In 3e/3.5 we didn't really tweak the rules much if at all, same with Pathfinder. In Hero 5e/6e there is MUCH more work up front. Creating Magic Spells/NPCs/Monsters, even with Grimoires and Bestiaries. I find that with the Grimoire that I need to fiddle with Powerlevels and decide what version of the spell that fits the game. Same with the Bestiary I find that I end up having to tweak every creature in there. There's nothing in Fantasy Hero that I can just pick up a few books and start to play that doesn't entail a ton of work. It's because even the settings feel quite generic. Like they are missing that spark that I the GM must supply to make them vital and want to play in them.

 

Then there's the other problem with Fantasy Hero. That's Power stagnation. Most Hero players and GM's seem to be quite afraid to ever push the powerlevel up and when they do it's never very much. I understand that they do that to prevent all of that upfront work to be rendered obsolete. Also, because it can be hard to find the right balance in challenge, so when a GM does find that balance they are reluctant to change anything. In D&D Characters get more powerful as they gain levels. That means that eventually if you play long enough D&D characters will be playing on the level of the established NPCs of the setting.

 

Instead of the goofy, space intensive, non-helpful three tiered power level way spells are offered in the Grimoires, they should just be costed per die of effect so you can just multiply up to whatever your campaign rolls at. It would make it much easier to increment spell power over time and with experience, and also incorporate into Multipowers and VPPs.

[Ndreare]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Instead of the goofy' date=' space intensive, non-helpful three tiered power level way spells are offered in the Grimoires, they should just be costed per die of effect so you can just multiply up to whatever your campaign rolls at. It would make it much easier to increment spell power over time and with experience, and also incorporate into Multipowers and VPPs.[/quote']

 

This idea could be workaqble also. Then a player could just list

Mickey's Fireball II and we would know that was 2D6 of fireball.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Instead of the goofy' date=' space intensive, non-helpful three tiered power level way spells are offered in the Grimoires, they should just be costed per die of effect so you can just multiply up to whatever your campaign rolls at. It would make it much easier to increment spell power over time and with experience, and also incorporate into Multipowers and VPPs.[/quote']

 

Yeah, this is an old idea, and an easily accomplished one. Just write up the effects like Talents. They have backing mechanics if you pop the hood, but on the surface they are a flat cost for a flat effect.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I'm personally looking at Savage Worlds for a simple system that I can present to my players. We already play Deadlands, so some of the mechanics will be fairly familiar. Their fantasy supplement has plenty of pre-crunched stuff in it that will allow me to concentrate more on designing the setting. In many ways, it reminds me of the mindset that FH for 4th edition had--lots of stuff to get you playing right away. And while I think that FH for 5th* is a great book, it's more of a manual of how to build everything yourself, rather than a way to launch a quick game.

 

I'm also not really comfortable with running stuff in 6th. There are just enough changes in characters and powers that I'd have to break down and really study the rules. And that's something that my players have basically said that they don't want to do.

 

JoeG

*I do wish that FH for 6th had more of the pre-crunched stuff--it could replace the (in my opinion) excessive flavor quotes.

 

I just wanted to add that I was messing around at Rpgarchive.com at under the Champions filter ther is a Westren Shores Campaign by Peter Cobcroft. He went and added alot of details to the game, such as names for money by each race. He has religion for each race. He even had a chart suggestioning which skills are common and uncommon. Its a good read if you have the time. (Of course this is written for 4thed rules.)

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Yeah' date=' this is an old idea, and an easily accomplished one. Just write up the effects like Talents. They have backing mechanics if you pop the hood, but on the surface they are a flat cost for a flat effect.[/quote']

 

This is also what I tend to do.

 

I utilize the Grimoire heavily because it takes away so much of the heavy lifting as far as spell creation is concerned. However I tend to use the basic writeups allowing players (and my NPC's) to purchase them at the power level they desire, or (most often) can afford at the moment.

[Ternaugh]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I just wanted to add that I was messing around at Rpgarchive.com at under the Champions filter ther is a Westren Shores Campaign by Peter Cobcroft. He went and added alot of details to the game' date=' such as names for money by each race. He has religion for each race. He even had a chart suggestioning which skills are common and uncommon. Its a good read if you have the time. (Of course this is written for 4thed rules.)[/quote']

 

The old Red October BBS also had expanded spell lists for the various 4th ed magic colleges, and a bunch of other useful stuff: http://www.mactyre.net/october/Files.html

 

JoeG

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/88573-Post-your-campaign-setting-supplement?p=2279018#post2279018

 

Let's put this to the test: Is Fantasy Hero really lacking in pre-generated "stuff"?

[tancred]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

Very odd. I've read many posts in this thread regarding the downside of Fantasy Hero being the extra GM effort involved. I find this amusing as the primary reason I (as a GM) use Hero is that I'm lazy - too lazy to learn any other game system well enough to be comfortable running it.

 

This is why I do Hero for everything. I know it WAY better than I will ever know d20 or any other system.

 

As for a pre-generated setting, my players had a blast in Turakian Age. Close enough to D&D to feel familiar, but still with the unique flavor of Hero.

I did a lot of adding on to what was in the book and the 5th ed. Grimoires, but that was mostly stuff I wanted, not absolutely had to have for the game.

In the process of writing up prefabs for my players for spells and so on, I went ahead and did conversions of things I had done for 4th edition. Added new spell colleges and a lot of new spells to existing colleges.

I really do like that magic system. Again, similar enough to D&D to not confuse my players, but unique enough to show that it isn't exactly the same.

 

Haven't done anything with it lately, though. Painted myself into a corner with my PA game (the players love it too much to let me stop) and now it's taking all the time I have for gaming.

 

When I'm not running Hero Glupii or our other GM usually run d20, though Glupii will run Hero when he has the time to prepare the setting.

[Glupii]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I've heard this from other GMs as well. If you (or anyone else reading this) don't mind elaborating, I'm curious what you mean. I've never found running Fantasy Hero to be any more work than running xD&D, so I'd like to learn how others' experiences are different. Is it because you make more use of published material for xD&D? Or do you find xD&D less work than FH in some way even when making up original material? Or something else?

 

 

 

Do you think they have trouble understanding game play in the HERO System, or just character creation? I'm curious because my own experience has been that new players to Hero (even if they're new to RPGs altogether) have no particular trouble grasping how the game plays (or at least, no more trouble grasping it than most other RPGs). It's the points and Advantages and Limitations and Adders and Active Points and Real Points and Enhancers and all that stuff that crosses their eyes. For example, when I've run Hero games at conventions (even for brand new players) and I present them with a character, they do fine with it. It's creating one that overwhelms some folks. Has your experience been different?

 

Wow, where to begin.

 

Well one thing that I think makes the D20 system a little easier is the built in balance system. It is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But it is pretty good. And unless I have REALLY crafty players (and I have a few that will really skew the game balance if not kept under control) the ability to create an encounter that is pretty well balanced for the group is not hard at all.

 

Yes, alot of it, I am sure, has to do with the overwhelming amount of pre-done adventures and books available. I can almost always find something to start with when modifying it to fit my campaign. If I was fabulously wealthy and had plenty of time to just do nothing but work on my game world and adventures, etc. I suppose I might gravitate more toward the realism and the great game flow of Hero even for my Fantasy games. But I have a family and a job and yada yada yada, same thing likely every other gm deals with. And so easy makes it possible to run games when I might not be able to if I had to invest more time into it for every game.

 

Then there is the constant balancing act you have to do with such a wide open system. The one game I ran, I used a few ideas from Killer Shrike (who in my opinion is THE master at Hero and whose game I would gladly give my next meal for the opportunity to play in) and it went well. But only because the one person really playing the magic system was Tancred who not only understood the balances well but is also one of our other GM's and therefore was very reasonable when it came to applying limits to some powers that threatened to throw the game balance out the window.

 

I am looking to try my hand at another in the future because I would like to model the world of the Dagger Fall series, Tamriel for a campaign and the magic system would have to be custom fit for that. Thus I would use Hero for it.

 

As for the ease for new players, I think part of it is that when trying to comprehend a new game, having limits sometimes HELPS to make it a little easier. In D20, the player knows what their character's abilities and limits are pretty quick because it is built into the class. And when facing another member fo their class, they have SOME idea of what to expect. Hero is SO wide open when it comes to choices that for a new player it can be very frustrating not being able to do everything you want to do because you have to balance those points. In D20, you roll dice, and they are what they are. You may decide what stats go where and MAYBE if the GM allows, you can make some small modifications. But mostly the dice make the decisions for you. In Hero you have to think about and decide each and every thing. And for a new player, the task of deciding..."Hmmmm is a 13 str. good enough, or should I cut down my con from 15 to 14 so I can up my str by two points?" ... is ALOT to consider. They do not grasp what the numbers mean and therefore are less connected o their characters. Now I will grant you, some of my newer players are new to roleplaying games all together! And that is even tougher as they have several learning curves they are trying to climb at once. I thought of a perfect example for my point after making this post. My sons are 8 and 11. I have played Hero Quest with them for a few years before introducing them to D20. They took to it far better because they now had the concept in their head of rolling dice, comparing the result to what your character's stats said they could do, and applying the result. They also understood that their character may be better or worse at things than the other characters and it takes a good mix of talents to make a good party. (Something VERY important to learn when you have 2 very competitive brothers!) So when they got to the point where the Heroquest system was too limiting (Why CAN'T I just peak in the door or listen at the door instead of just flinging it open?) did I consider them ready for a more advanced system. D20 was a good next step. Had I tried to introduce them right to Hero, they would have been too frustrated because they would read each skill, each power, each talent, and want their characters to do them all. With D20, they didn't have as many choices once they decided what kind of character they wanted to play. It was far easier for them to grasp.

 

I hope I made some sense here. I apologize for not checking in for a while to answer this question in a more timely fashion.

[Ndreare]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

While choice can slow things down. Over commingled it can be done by the gm just getting an idea from the player and making the first character.

the the players learn as they go when they get experience the can use it to learn about new rules...

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

While choice can slow things down. Over commingled it can be done by the gm just getting an idea from the player and making the first character.

the the players learn as they go when they get experience the can use it to learn about new rules...

 

GM assistance is probably really the best way to get newbies started out in Hero. Let them have an idea of the world's background, let them pick a general concept, build to that concept while making a few suggestions, and maybe make them spend the last few points on their own. After that, XP are easy to spend.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

As for the ease for new players, I think part of it is that when trying to comprehend a new game, having limits sometimes HELPS to make it a little easier. In D20, the player knows what their character's abilities and limits are pretty quick because it is built into the class. And when facing another member fo their class, they have SOME idea of what to expect. Hero is SO wide open when it comes to choices that for a new player it can be very frustrating not being able to do everything you want to do because you have to balance those points. In D20, you roll dice, and they are what they are. You may decide what stats go where and MAYBE if the GM allows, you can make some small modifications. But mostly the dice make the decisions for you. In Hero you have to think about and decide each and every thing. And for a new player, the task of deciding..."Hmmmm is a 13 str. good enough, or should I cut down my con from 15 to 14 so I can up my str by two points?" ... is ALOT to consider. They do not grasp what the numbers mean and therefore are less connected o their characters. Now I will grant you, some of my newer players are new to roleplaying games all together! And that is even tougher as they have several learning curves they are trying to climb at once. I thought of a perfect example for my point after making this post. My sons are 8 and 11. I have played Hero Quest with them for a few years before introducing them to D20. They took to it far better because they now had the concept in their head of rolling dice, comparing the result to what your character's stats said they could do, and applying the result. They also understood that their character may be better or worse at things than the other characters and it takes a good mix of talents to make a good party. (Something VERY important to learn when you have 2 very competitive brothers!) So when they got to the point where the Heroquest system was too limiting (Why CAN'T I just peak in the door or listen at the door instead of just flinging it open?) did I consider them ready for a more advanced system. D20 was a good next step. Had I tried to introduce them right to Hero, they would have been too frustrated because they would read each skill, each power, each talent, and want their characters to do them all. With D20, they didn't have as many choices once they decided what kind of character they wanted to play. It was far easier for them to grasp.

 

I hope I made some sense here. I apologize for not checking in for a while to answer this question in a more timely fashion.

 

I understand your point. as to introducing your kids to Hero, I have had a different experience. With my daughter who's 9, she didn't find it overwhelming. But that's because of two things, one since its just her and me, its more one on one. (I can imagine having two to teach at the same time is harder ) And two, (and most importantly, to me) while I gave her character options, they where limited. I have no idea why it seems taboo in this community (though not expressed by all) to dare to put limits on characters, when it teaching new people, regardless of age. Now I understand that if the player gets it, then by all means allow them more options. If it was a different game, would there be such an expectation to know all the rules first? I don't think so.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

When I taught my kids Hero, I didn't give them any options other than which character to pick from. I had all the special abilities, including a description of the martial maneuvers, laid out for them in plain text. I also had a quick explanation of how END worked for each attack and some quick advise on how to balance END use. The idea was that we could layer a little bit more on as time went on. Sadly, other things distracted them and they never really embraced roleplaying as anything more than a replacement for Heroscape.

[Glupii]

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

 

I agree 110% that the only way to go with new players is to limit their options. But finding and balancing those limits adds more to the GM again. And as I have said, when I am trying to put together a game, usually (not always but often) I am pushed for time. If I go into a game unprepared, especially with the caliber of some of the players I have in my game, it is not as much fun for me as I am constantly worrying about messing up the game balance by winging it. (Have done that too many times in the past three decades) So I have three factors:

 

1. Need for a lot of prep

2. Pressure brought on by lack of time due to other life situations

3. Two systems, one that has tons of ready made details, easy to modify, and the other almost completely devoid of pre-made modules and whose system is so wide open I have to also work harder to maintain balance.

 

Put those three together and simply put, D20 wins for me hands down every time.

 

And before anyone thinks otherwise, I LOVE the HERO system. I think it is AWESOME. If I had more time to work on it and/or there were more resources available for me to utilize, I am sure I would migrate to the system for fantasy. But for now I keep it in my bag of tools for non fantasy games only.

 

One last thing, I think it would work to limit the kid's choices and options when introducing them to Hero...to a point. But they are just too inquisitive and would want to go off in directions counter to those limits every time. With D20 I have the built in excuse "Those are the rules" Plus the one factor I had not mentioned is that when we play I have gotten my wife to play too and she is NOT a long time gamer, and is VERY new to ANY role playing. So keeping to what she knows and has learned has its benefits.