assault Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity And frankly in this day and age maintaining ANY sort of secret id would be technically impossible simply due to the technology we have available today. Not true. You might not be able to conceal your birth identity, but living under a false ID is perfectly doable. And if you were serious, you might be able to at least cast doubt on your birth ID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity Neither does a domino mask. And frankly in this day and age maintaining ANY sort of secret id would be technically impossible simply due to the technology we have available today. I The Geezer Bandit begs to disagree. http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Geezer-Bandit-Three-Year-Anniversary-Crime-Spree-FBI--164891286.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackEagle Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity Anything is possible with the right computer expert on your side. Under Cover cops do it all the time. Probably one of the best disguses would be if you were a male hero and dressed female when you were "off duty". Jimmy Olson did it in Friends of superman. Or like some who have diffrent hair color and dress diffrently when in either identity. So even in this day and age unless they took your finger prints or had facial recognition cameras then you could get away with a secret ID. Not true. You might not be able to conceal your birth identity, but living under a false ID is perfectly doable. And if you were serious, you might be able to at least cast doubt on your birth ID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity .... Probably one of the best disguses would be if you were a male hero and dressed female when you were "off duty". Jimmy Olson did it in Friends of superman.... "So you dress like that because of your secret identity?" "Yes." "The stiletto heels, the thigh-length mini-skirt, the fishnets, the plunging blouse?" "For great justice!" "Okay, then. So. Wanna go out sometime?" "Sure!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyber624 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity Secret ID that I was referencing is different than False ID. Wearing a domino mask or a pair of glasses or (in some cases) full facial masks definitely could make you somewhat harder to identify, but unless you go to GREAT lengths you will leave some trace of yourself behind. Modern Forensics is pretty much based upon this concept. And it would be even worse for you if you were actually in a COMBAT situation. And photos of you "in costume" or recordings of your voice (if your not using some sort of voice modification technology) can also be used to match you to your normal ID. Of course not having a Public ID makes most of this relatively moot. I can remember several times in various cartoons where the villain unmasks the hero then goes "Who is this guy?" Few people, for instance, would know who Peter Parker was, even if he went swinging around town without the costume. (JJJ of course would quickly rectify that, but I hope you see the point I'm trying to make) Like you said earlier, having your fingerprints (or photo, or voice recording or whatever) is of limited use until you have something to match it to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity In fact, there's a scene in one Spider-Man storyline where Doc Ock catches Spider-Man and unmasks him. The only thing that saves him is that no-one, least of all Doc Ock, believes that "that milquetoast Peter Parker" could be Spider-Man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity Probably one of the best disguses would be if you were a male hero and dressed female when you were "off duty". The opposite seemed to work pretty well for Madame Fatal back in the day. Bonus: his enemies got the embarrassment of being beaten up by an elderly woman who walked with a cane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity So not taking the Complication is more of a Complication than taking the Complication is? I read it more as 'I'm going to do plotlines that the Secret ID Disad covers, so you might as well get points for it'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity Sounds like that is something that should be spelled out to the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity Another viewpoint worth considering is that a Secret ID doesn't represent the costumed superhero but rather the 'normal' member of society. It's often been mentioned that Batman is the 'real' identity and Bruce Wayne is the role he plays as a means of maintaining the wealth necessary to pay for all his 'bat-toys'. The counter example is Clark Kent the 'real' identity and Superman the role he plays to protect the 'human contact' he needs to stay grounded. In both cases the characters could certainly sever ties with their old identies (Bruce & Clark) but they would lose something in the process (easy access to wealth & access to humanity without hero-worship issues). That's where it becomes a disadvantage/complication. It is possible that they could create NEW human identities but they would lose access to any direct connections to the old identities in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackEagle Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity Hyper Man has a good point. The hero is the true IDentity. Might as well call "secret Identitys" Alter egos. They are the Alternant Identity and in some cases arnt so secret. Face it in the case of Superman/Clark Kent no one could realy be that nieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity Hyper Man has a good point. The hero is the true IDentity. Might as well call "secret Identitys" Alter egos. They are the Alternant Identity and in some cases arnt so secret. Face it in the case of Superman/Clark Kent no one could realy be that nieve. Bruce Wayne has demonstrated extraordinary disguise skills (ie: Matches Malone) but Clark has literally developed the differences between being 'Clark' and 'Superman' over a lifetime. The closest analogy is the effort that goes into placing a Sleeper agent like "Yuri" from the move No Way Out. Clark is not just a role Superman plays. It's the only way he can connect to his humanity via long term social bonds. Going the disguise route like Bruce w/Matches isn't really an option since a true disguise wouldn't hold up to scrutiny over the long term. Clark is a good disguise mostly due to a lifetime of learned mannerisms dedicated to NOT standing out in a crowd. It would be hard for him to repeat if the dual identity of Clark/Superman were to ever be revealed. That's another reason why the identity is so precious to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maccabe Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity Over the course of time it's changed. In the first incarnation of Champions Public Id was 10 pts and Secret Id was 15 pts. It seemed like you could "go Public" by reducing it by 5 pts. By the time FRED arrived they were equal in points and the idea of Famous came along. Now with 6th you could have either but it would never come into play, take no complication thus it was almost a matter of trivia. Each of us may prefer one or the other but in the end how it's handled is up to the Game Master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity I read it more as 'I'm going to do plotlines that the Secret ID Disad covers' date=' so you might as well get points for it'.[/quote'] I suppose it depends on the GM-PC relationship and what Complications represent in a given. For example, to me, not taking the Secret ID Complication but having a "secret identity" means that you want no one to know the character's real ID but you don't want stories about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinanju Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity I suppose it depends on the GM-PC relationship and what Complications represent in a given. For example' date=' to me, not taking the Secret ID Complication but having a "secret identity" means that you want no one to know the character's real ID but you don't want stories about it.[/quote'] Yep. That is (in my mind) the best approach to choosing ANY disadvantage (or complication). If you want it to be an issue in the game, take the disad. If it's just "color text" you can describe how Arachnid-Man has a secret identity, but without the disad/complication, it won't be an issue in the game. He doesn't have to explain why he's always late for/missing dates or work, or why he's looking beat up all the time (like in Fight Club). I tend to provide siblings, parents and/or partners for my PCs, but I don't take them as DNPCs because I don't like dealing with them being kidnapped or menaced. The same with limitations on powers. If you always use a sword or a hammer, but you don't take it as an OAF, it won't get taken away from you. It's just a special effect. The Black Knight, a character of mine, is done that way. His power (to instantly heal from pretty much anything) makes him nigh invulnerable, and he can apply that power to anything he's holding. So he can walk into any cutlery store, buy the cheapest wallhanger sword they have--and then use it to smash through concrete walls or chop cars in half. He never gets his weapon taken away because it's just a special effect. Or, on the rare occasion when it does happen, he grabs a handy crowbar, two-by-four, lamppost or whatever, and goes to town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestlinggeek Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity Hyper Man has a good point. The hero is the true IDentity. Might as well call "secret Identitys" Alter egos. They are the Alternant Identity and in some cases arnt so secret. Face it in the case of Superman/Clark Kent no one could realy be that nieve. You know, I keep seeing this "nobody really believes that Clark kent isn't Superman" thing, and I say "Why not?" Let me put it this way, if Brad Pitt, under a different name, worked in the office with you, and had for months before a Brad Pitt ever became a movie star, and still worked there even afterward, you wouldn't say "I have it! Brad Pitt's Secret Identity is Bob!" No, you'd say "Gee, Bob sure looks a lot like that Brad Pitt guy." Especiall if Bob was a little shorter, wore glasses, spoke differentlyand was not quite as buff as Brad Pitt. Most people in the DC Universe these days don't even realize Superman has another identity. After all, he wears no mask. They figure he must be Superman 24/7. And why not? After all, if you were Brad Pitt, with all his money and fame, would you take eight hours out of every weekday to go work in an office? And if you were Superman, with all his power and ability, would you bother putting on a suit and pretending to be a normal human? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laundry Knight Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity I vaguely recall an old Charlton Captain Atom comic I read where the villain revealed Captain Atom's real face on public TV only no one had a clue who he was; so, the exercise proved pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinanju Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity Or, alternatively, everybody knows Clark Kent is Superman. Or at least, everyone in his day-to-day life. They all just pretend not to see it. See, Superman is insanely powerful, apparently immortal (he hasn't aged since he first appeared in 1938), and goes ballistic when his "secret identity" is threatened. In any way. When the first (real) Lois Lane was killed by gangsters while covering a story, he went crazy with anger and grief. And eventually found a woman who bore a powerful resemblance to Lois and decided that SHE was Lois. No matter that she claimed otherwise (she'd been brainwashed), or that others claimed likewise (also brainwashed, or worse). Any physical evidence or documentation of her true identity dissuaded him. It was all faked, as part of some elaborate scheme. With no other choice, the woman was forced to settle into Lois Lane's life and play her part. And that's when the federal government stepped in. The other major players in "Clark Kent's" life weren't getting any younger. Understudies were found, and trained, and stood ready to take the place of anyone else (including the second Lois) who needed to be replaced due to death, by old age or otherwise. Clark Kent's co-workers and neighbors were organized (or, as the years went by, were replaced thru natural attrition by trained agents) to make sure his "secret" identity was never again threatened. Occasionally, they have to stop someone who tries to break the masquerade by getting to "Clark" and revealing their knowledge of his secret identity. For the most part, they've been successful, but the occasional determined troublemaker gets thru, and a cover story to satisfy Superman has to be worked out. Fortunately, he's pathologically committed to this charade, so it's not very difficult to convince him. The Daily Planet continues to publish only because Clark Kent works there. If not for massive annual subsidies from the federal government, the paper would have gone out of business decades ago. There have been several Perry Whites running the paper over the years. Ditto for Jimmy Olsens and others. The most dangerous part anyone plays is Lois Lane. There have been more Loises than all other parts combined. (In the forties and fifties it wasn't so bad. She could put him off and play chaste for years, but the sexual revolution has been hard on Lois, as Larry Niven has described.) Or so I've imagined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity It's just a convention of the genre. It's easy to keep a Secret ID because the rules of the universe require it to be easy to keep a Secret ID. Just like nobody ever attacks the giant combining vehicle-mech thing until it's completely assembled. It's just one of those things required for the genre to function properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyber624 Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity "AND I'll form the ... WAAAAHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhnnnn............" "Guys? where is Keith?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brionl Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity Yep. That is (in my mind) the best approach to choosing ANY disadvantage (or complication). If you want it to be an issue in the game' date=' take the disad. If it's just "color text" you can describe how Arachnid-Man has a secret identity, but without the disad/complication, it won't be an issue in the game. He doesn't have to explain why he's always late for/missing dates or work, or why he's looking beat up all the time (like in Fight Club). I tend to provide siblings, parents and/or partners for my PCs, but I don't take them as DNPCs because I don't like dealing with them being kidnapped or menaced.[/quote'] It's the flipside of "If it's not a disadvantage, you don't get points for it." If you didn't take points for it, it's not a disadvantage. If the GM really truly feels that that won't work, then just state it in the campaign ground rules. During character generation, everybody has to take either Secret or Public ID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyber624 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity If the GM really truly feels that that won't work, then just ...... get a new GM. Seriously that is what someone is going to pick to have a hangup over in this system??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity ...... get a new GM. Seriously that is what someone is going to pick to have a hangup over in this system??? You'd be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyber624 Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity yeah, unfortunately not. Just saying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Re: Public vs. Secret Identity You say that like the GM isn't allowed expectations, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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