I wonder how many have stopped using Champions/HERO for similar reasons to this?

[Vondy]

Vondy,

 

Though, I have to add, as I mentioned in my first post he, himself has not always been that good at doing just that. Even upon receiving proof that I had suggested to Steve directly the ideas that they ended up using, no one at Hero would even suggest to say well it was a good idea. They insisted that they came up with it independently, which may be the case, though with giving the exact same idea to the creator who shot down said idea, only to have himself a few months later does not sound like coming up with it independently. At best it sounds as if he the thought came too him later again in a way that would work how he originally said it wouldn't (though I suggested how they would originally) and he may have forgotten the part where the idea came from someone else. To those that, that sounds reasonable too though, I reiterate, if it were a legal case, where you plagiarized without remembering you did so (again, not claiming this is the case, only comparing it) you would still be found guilty.

 

I have no way of evaluating your allegation. Nor am I the correct address for it. However, without clear proof, plagiarism is a charge you want to avoid on a public forum. A lot of ideas put out on these boards were discussed and subsequently made their way into official publications. This was especially true of ideas proposed during the pre-6e discussion, which was all about what we wanted to see in the new edition. If you put it on the boards its pretty much fair game. Giving credit for those ideas is, of course, the right thing to do. However, I'm not sure that Steve is always sure exactly where he saw something, or who posted it (esp. since many posters aren't known beyond their handles), or even if he first saw it on the boards. He does a ton of research when writing and writes a great deal and I'm sure a lot of things just get sucked in. I think the benefit of the doubt in the absence of clear bad faith is the best policy. Else the environs become soured.

[Greywind]

Greywind,

 

Sorry, you weren't there. That may be your opinion, but its just not the fact. Maybe it is better now. Hopefully. In the past, I had said just a few minor negative things, had pages of responses telling me I should find a new system, because I was looking for a house rule for a perceived flaw. Or told much worse. And when I would say something as simple as the dreaded L word. (lemmings) I would get banned. Not really banned. That maybe too strong of a word. I would be put on suspension and not allowed to post for a few days to a few weeks.

 

Now imagine my shock when instructed by the powers that be at Hero that me suggesting people blindly following them can be compared to lemmings is WORSE than others telling me I should kill myself because I don't like something with the rules and asking if anyone else felt the same way and had a work around.

 

Unless it happened pre-Cybergames, I've been here.

[Tasha]

I don't doubt that those other Ultimate books were brought up on the boards, but I remember Bruce bringing up a ton of Ultimate book ideas (I think it was at a Bay Area Convention during a Hero Games Seminar).when they first started to publish those way back in the 4e(pre cybergames etc) days. So who knows where they got the idea to do a specific books. BTW many authors and companies don't like reading message boards because of just this issue. Someone brings up an idea and later an Author has a similar one (perhaps influenced by the post or perhaps by something else completely) the person who posted the idea gets their back up and pitches a fuss. At this point I would respectfully suggest letting the whole thing go. Unless you are going to get a lawyer and sue the company, it's just not worth worrying about. It also causes a lot of trouble for no real gain for anyone involved(usually causing bad feeling more than good).

[Greywind]

Absolutely, Tasha. On the BattleTech board you can't post fan designs outside of a forum specifically for that purpose. A forum that anyone attached to the company isn't supposed to visit.

 

Fan designs on other boards that I'm aware of usually end up getting edited or deleted by the moderators so that it isn't an issue for the company.

[Willpower]

Vondy,

 

I know. To be clear, I never accused anyone of Plagarism. I said it is similar. Plagarism is taking someone else's work and saying it is yours. I was just talking about an idea. And this was WAY before 6th Ed.

[Willpower]

I don't want to push my luck so I edited this. I will just shut up about this issue now. People always just jump to defense on this site anyway and I don't want to get booted again. Still not buying Hero though. M&M is awesome.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Willpower

[Willpower]

I'm just gonna shut up bout this now.

[Greywind]

There's legal issues. It is just a lot easier not to have the can of worms opened at all.

[Vondy]

Hold it right there Mr. Insinuate and Run. Not so fast. You said it, you stand for it!

 

Vondy,

 

I know. To be clear, I never accused anyone of Plagarism. I said it is similar. Plagarism is taking someone else's work and saying it is yours. I was just talking about an idea. And this was WAY before 6th Ed.

 

Nice try. You clearly had an ax to grind and proceeded apace in a public forum. What is more, the fact that you merely "likened" it to plagiarism is insinuation by comparison and isn't a mitigating factor. Not in debate, not in logic, and not in court. That you have some weasel-words to hide behind doesn't change the clear intent of your words.

 

CLAUSE 1 People always just jump to defense on this site anyway

CLAUSE 2 and I don't want to get booted again.

CLAUSE 3 Still not buying Hero though. M&M is awesome.

1. The first clause is an ad hominem attack intended to characterize anyone who dissents from your expressed view as a thoughtless reactionary. That is not good faith on your part. Its a passive aggressive swipe at the entire community.
2. The second clause is intended to cast yourself in the role of oppressed underdog when you are the one leveled an unsubstantiated and patently ugly charge by way of insinuation. Utter balderdash. Its rank hypocrisy.
3. The third clause simply underscores that you are not here in good faith; are seeking to poison the well; etc.

I have zero respect for your polemics, which I regard as smarmy and invertebrate.  

 

Note: I had intended to give *you* the benefit of the doubt until I saw your 01:10 AM post.

[TheQuestionMan]

Since finding Hero System and Champions I have never given up. Even during the bait and switch tactics of Champions: New Millennium.

 

My preference is for 5E, but I will play not GM 6E.

 

GM

[Vondy]

Since finding Hero System and Champions I have never given up. Even during the bait and switch tactics of Champions: New Millennium.

 

My preference is for 5E, but I will play not GM 6E.

 

GM

 

Having used both 5e and 6e, there are things I like about both. I'm not sure how I'd mash the two, up, however.

[Greywind]

It's been my system of choice for supers for 30 years.

[Tasha]

Re: Ultimate Mastermind. No Such Book. He might have talked about writing it, but it never appeared in print. Currently all of the 5e Ultimate books are available on the Online Store. No Ultimate Mastermind. Amazon has listings of all of the 5e Ultimate books, but not Ultimate Mastermind. Are you really so hurt over a book that was NEVER PUBLISHED?

 

As for the Ultimate Energy Projector, it was definitely something that was intended to be written and published for 4e.

Hero has been my system of choice since 2e Champions. I have looked at other super's games and their complexity is very high and they have nearly 0 flexability. I can build ANYTHING I can imagine in Hero. In other systems (Including GURPS and Savage Worlds) I can only build what the Designers have given as powers. Hero gives the most complete set of abilities that one can use for any genre including Superheroes. YMMV

[Chris Goodwin]

Once The Ultimate Mentalist and The Ultimate Martial Artist (both originally 4e books) came out, The Ultimate Energy Projector was a no brainer.  

 

It's possible, though difficult, to pull up 2001 era postings from web.archive.org if anyone is curious.  

[GhostDancer]

 I had a good experience with credit from Steve Long.  I went so far as to tell him that is was more than I deserved, given that I was simply restating what I read in a professional law enforcement publication, and he went forward with special thanks to me, anyway.

 

-Will "Suffice" Geiger

[Shiva13]

I have taken the recommendation of some of the people in this forum and took a look at Fate. And I have bought all of the books for it.

 

They have put out a small supers supplement called Venture CIty Stories that has gotten a generally positive reaction from me.  It's good stuff. And I'm looking forward to their Powers supplement that they mentioned will be forthcoming.

 

In all, Fate looks very promising to me.

 

As for Hero. I still play it. I still GM for it. It is an old stand-by for me. It is what I know and use continually.

[Sketchpad]

I don't want to push my luck so I edited this. I will just shut up about this issue now. People always just jump to defense on this site anyway and I don't want to get booted again. Still not buying Hero though. M&M is awesome.

If I can just mention one thing here, Willpower. You do realize you're on a Hero Games board, right? That might be one reason why people are jumping to defend the system and the board, especially after you state that you like M&M. You're going to get friction when you do that, Bub. Just a bit of FYI and all.

[Ninja-Bear]

Years ago, I thought that the older editions of Champions were simplilier and in a sense they were. However, now that I am learning what you you used to get for free with some of the old powers and what wasn't available, I'm not so convinced. I have never been big on having granularity yet I can see its purpose. I too have looked at other systems and I still come back to "I can do this or that in hero".  For example, a friend gave me Heroes Unlimited a gift. Which I do like because it has some powers that I just never thought of before.  Elemental control: Ice has a power iirc called snowball which onlt does one point of damage.  In my mind, I would write that up as a flash power. Unless I missed it, (which is a real possibility) flash or something similar to it in Paladium doesn't exist. I do think though were some of the idea of complexity arises comes from the OPTIONAL rules.  Hero system should have a motto (and I try to remind it to myself) It is as complex as the GM wants it to be! . Right now I'm running a Champions game for my daughter and nephew (both 10) and working on a fantasy game for my oldest brother who didn't know that there were any editions beyond 2nd in D&D.  One of my biggest hints though in creating characters is to look at any sample powers, any villian books, look on-line, any genre books, etcetra. Why build from scratch when you can modify to suit?  (also and I don't know why, but the last few years the hero system has really started to click for me-could it be the influenced of this forum? )

[BhelliomRahl]

I have been roleplaying for about 25 years and I like to think that I have played a very diverse selection of games (most of which I own) and I have enjoyed them all.  However since I got into Hero it has always been my preferred system.  I started playing 4th edition but only had the core books, I really started to get into the system with 5th Edition and made a real investment in both time and money, which I have never regretted.

 

Hero is my preferred system because if I can imagine it I can make it and I really like that.  I understand that Hero can be complex, but that is only if I allow it.

 

As stated preciously, "Hero is as Complex as the GM makes it".

Example:

My friends always complained about Hero because of the Character creation complexity and complications as they saw it, so I spent several weeks making a step system where the players could choose from options: Race, Background, Profession, Characteristic Blocks (Hardy, Quick, Intelligent, etc).  It was a simple process and my players could build their characters in 30 minutes and they really enjoyed it.  My players had no problem with Hero after this and overtime they wanted more diversity from their characters and started changing parts and in the end are making characters from scratch with no complaint.

 

I do still run games with other systems, Fate being the main one.  I started with a Pulp Star Wars/ League of Extraordinary Gentlemen using Spirit of the Century which was very free form and great fun. Fate Core is a great system if I want to sit down and start a game in 15-30 minutes with no preparations (It does have a lot of depth to it if I want to use it - The Dresden Files is a great resource), I carry a copy in my shoulder bag.  What I enjoy is the idea of Aspects, its, something I have implemented into my Hero games.

[GhostDancer]

"...players could choose from options: Race, Background, Profession, Characteristic Blocks (Hardy, Quick, Intelligent, etc)."  -

BhelliomRahl

Super!  Please post this system, or at least PM it to me.  Such could win some converts, and I have several new players.

[Pattern Ghost]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that a guy using "Willpower" for a handle didn't have enough willpower to resist necroing an old thread to start up a rant at random?

[Old Man]

What game would that be?  In Hero it's supposed to be Ego. 

[Pattern Ghost]

[GhostDancer]

http://www.gocomics.com/sunny-street/2014/05/23/#.U4Jb63JdVOg

[GhostDancer]