Best Swords & Sorcery hero ever?

[FenrisUlf]

HI all,

 

Something you Howard and heroic fantasy fans might enjoy hearing -- the original Conan the Barbarian stories will be reprinted starting this December, three volumes, trade paperback, fully illustrated, by Del Rey books. They will be doing the original Howard stories, mind, not some the later (and often fundamentally second-rate) dreck slopped out by other authors.

 

That said, I'd like to ask -- just who do some of you consider to have been/be the best heroic fantasy character/series ever? (I'd do this as a survey if I knew how; my apologies.) For my money, Conan and Hyboria are the best, though I've got soft spots for Charles Saunders' Imaro and his HF Africa, Lin Carter's Thongor (yes, it's derivative, but it's still fun), and the Simon of Gitta stories by Richard Tierney. And Lord Dunsany's 'The Fortress Unvanquishable, save for Sacnoth' deserves some sort of honorable mention.

 

Anyone else have any names they want to offer?

[Lord Liaden]

Everyone that you mentioned are excellent characters scribed by fine authors. I won't presume to claim the "best" by any objective standards, but I can add my favorites who also have quite a following:

 

The one that appeals to me the most is Michael Moorcock's Elric, for his tragic destiny, complex personality and striking visuals (not to mention the most bad-@ss magic sword ever created). I tend to prefer Moorcock's earlier Elric stories; the later ones are so tied up in that "Eternal Champion" mishmash as to be unnecessarily convoluted.

 

For rollicking good fun with hefty doses of humor and thoughtfulness, I always turn to Fritz Leiber's tales of Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser. These guys are as self-centered as Conan, and like him are heroes only in that they have some code of honor and aren't as vicious as their antagonists. No world-saving here, just high-spirited adventures in a colorful world.

 

Finally, I have to put in a good word for Edgar Rice Burroughs' John Carter. Although the Mars stories are pseudo science-fiction, the effects and motifs are much more fantasy, and Carter is a swashbuckling hero of the first rank. Hackneyed plots and silly prose in some cases, but incredible imagination and great action.

[Lowly Uhlan]

1st pick:Elric.Yes, Stormbringer was the best-ever fantasy weapon and the Law vs. Chaos conflict being copied in other "worlds" (even Battletech had the Chaos Marches,the map had the Chaos symbol on it) is kind of a testament to Moorcock's ingenuity. The Melniboneans were a great fantasy race.

 

2nd:Conan.The Howard originals rocked, Conans days as a theif in Zamora (most notably "The Tower of the Elephant") definetely fired my imagination as a kid. I went looking for those books at Borders and was kind of dissapointed that they didn't have them.I'm glad they're going to be reprinted.

 

I would have gone with Brust's Vlad Taltos as my first pick but I wouldn't really consider those stories Sword and Sorcery, a little too much magic for that genre. I really like Brust's writing style, the combat scenes really are exciting. Gotta love a character that is an accomplished assassin,knows witchcraft and a little sorcery, is a crime boss, and later ended up on the run. Awesome!

[Agent Escafarc]

If your looking for somthing a little newer try The Adventures of Hawk & Fisher by Simon Green (of Deathsalker fame). I know they have collected all the storys in a two volume set(Swords of Haven,Guards of Haven)plus the prequel(Blue Moon Rising) and the newest novel Beyond the Blue Moon. Lots of good ideas for any Fantasy game.

[Beetle]

I haven't read enough of the old stuff to call anything "best", but it would be hard to beat Fafhrd and Grey Mouser for the reasons LL said earlier (plus the exciting guessing game of "How many drugs was Fritz on when he wrote this story?")

 

I have just started Vance's Dying Earth Chronicles and that's very good so far. (been meaning to read it for years, and Steve's plug in FH was the final straw to get me to do it)

[Nevenall]

For my Money

 

There is no beating Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser stories.

[Alcamtar]

Some of my top picks

 

- Howard's "Conan', including the stories edited by Lin Carter and L. Sprague deCamp

- Moorcock, "Elric" and "Corum"

- Karl Edward Wagner's "Kane"

- Vance's "Dying Earth" tales, various characters

- Lin Carter's "Kellory the Warlock"

- The "Death Dealer" (don't remember the author, but based on Frazetta's well-known paintings)

- Howard's "Valley of the Worm" (don't remember the character's name)

 

Also worth mentioning:

 

- Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser - not my favorites, but superbly written

- Lawrence Watt-Evans, "Garth the Overman" from the Lords of Dus... but largely because of his Warbeast.

- John Jakes, "Brak the Barbarian" (totally a Conan ripoff clone, but fairly well done, and the stories are interesting)

 

And of course...

 

"Grignr" from the Eye of Argon!

[Beetle]

Originally posted by Alcamtar

- Lawrence Watt-Evans, "Garth the Overman" from the Lords of Dus... but largely because of his Warbeast.

 

One of the things I've always liked about Watt-Evans is how he writes "real" people. The characters in his stories take actions for perfectly understandable reasons. Guards don't fight to the death, Garth has a mid-life crisis, Valder doesn't give up his wish to be an innkeeper simply because he gains possession of the most powerful weapon in the world (he just becomes an innkeeper with a nasty sword ... that he keeps on the wall). And nobody swears that their swords will not be sheathed until they have vanquished the evil lord.

[Vondy]

Though not properly "sword and sorcery" Howard's non-Conan works are pretty good (most of them), especially his Cormac Mac Art and Solomon Kane stories, which are very telling of the early fantasy genre.

[shadowcat1313]

Fafrhd and the Grey Mouser

Kane

I like some of the characters from the newer Song of Ice and Fire series by George RR Martin

Littlefinger and John Snow are my favorites

 

Joirel of Jory and Northwest Smith from CL Moore

although there as much space opera as anything

but John Carter is the same way and I see hes mentioned

[gewing]

Conan was good, but It has been long enough that I can't remember what I read that was Howard's and what was evrybody elses.

 

I really liked John Carter of mars, though iirc the CHessmen of mars seemed weak and disgusting.

 

I really like the Hawk and Fisher books, also the Taltos books.

 

One of my favorites, though, is the pair of books by David Weber, "Oath of Swords," and "The war God's Own"

 

Now if he would just gain duplication so he could write 24 hours a day AND have a life with his wife and 2 adopted daughters...

[Old Man]

Re: Best Swords & Sorcery hero ever?

 

Originally posted by FenrisUlf

-- the original Conan the Barbarian stories will be reprinted starting this December, three volumes, trade paperback, fully illustrated, by Del Rey books.

 

That figures, after the time and expense I went through to collect most of them in the past year. Oh well. Better to have new trade paperbacks than old falling-apart ones, I guess.

[Thirdbase]

While I haven't read much of the older fantasy, so I can't comment on Conan or the others. I'll give my vote to Paksennarion from the Deed of Paksennarion. This character is probably the closest I've read to being a true hero.

 

But don't read anyhting else by the author

[tkdguy]

I've always enjoyed the Conan, Elric, and John Carter series. How about the Thieves' World series? They were more a bunch of short stories than novels, but they were pretty good.

[Agent Escafarc]

Originally posted by tkdguy

I've always enjoyed the Conan, Elric, and John Carter series. How about the Thieves' World series? They were more a bunch of short stories than novels, but they were pretty good.

I liked the early Thieves' World stories and also liked the Liavek series too. It had an interesting take on magic. Especially liked the one about the camel:p

[Ghost who Walks]

What was interesting about Conan were a couple of things.

 

He appeal on several levels.

~Obviously he is a big Barbarian, and really strong.

~But there is enough of a mystery about his origins, to make him a compelling character

~The world Howard created remains interesting, so much so that seven decades of authors have been able to write stories for it. That has to be a record.

~Also there is a subtext in the books. Howard was prone to fts of depression, and is probably one of the few fantasy writers who might have survived in his worlds. Barbarians always survive conflicts with civilization, but rarely profit from it.

[assault]

It's interesting to compare Howard's Conan stories with the De Camp/Carter ones. There is quite a different feel. That doesn't mean that the De Camp/Carter ones are bad - far from it - but they definitely are different.

 

The ones by later authors basically aren't worth reading.

 

An idea I have considered is to base a campaign in a truncated version of Hyboria - more or less from Zamora to Turan east to west, and from southern Hyperborea to northern Stygia. This covers most of Conan's early career, from his escape south, his career as a thief in Zamora and Corinthia, his period in Zamboula and such places, and with a bit of tweaking, bits of his military career, especially including the battle in Black Colossus. The idea would be that the area is a bit of a no man's land between the major powers, with at best rather ramshackle collections of city-states.

 

Of course, I would file off the Hyborian serial numbers...

 

Some of Howard's other stuff is very good too, and other bits are a bit lame.

 

Clark Ashton Smith wrote some pretty fine Cthulhu-ish fantasy stuff, which is worth a look.

 

Alan

[shadowcat1313]

theres a new anthology out that looks interesting, its entitled Shadows over Baker Street

 

from what I have heard its Sherlock Holmes crossed over with the Cthulhu mythos

[Rage]

Druss the Legend has to be the best IMO.

[Greenstar]

Holger Carlsson "Three Hearts and Three Lions" by Poul Anderson, though it's a bit high magic. Still the definative paladin in my book.

[Bazza]

Re: Re: Best Swords & Sorcery hero ever?

 

Originally posted by Old Man

That figures, after the time and expense I went through to collect most of them in the past year. Oh well. Better to have new trade paperbacks than old falling-apart ones, I guess.

Old Man, you may want to check out these two trade paperbacks.

• The Conan Chronicles Vol 1 (ISBN 1857989961)

• The Conan Chronicles Vol 2 (ISBN 1857987470)

An interview with the editor of the books is here: http://www.barbariankeep.com/cnchron.html and according to it, they are pure REH no pastiches and also contain uncompleted fragments etc. If you woul like any other information, just ask (I have both).

[StationX]

Druss the legand is good, but by far my favorite is Waylander

 

ERB Mars(Barsoom), Venus(Amtor) and Earths Core(Pellucidar) are old favorates as well.

 

Chris

[FenrisUlf]

Originally posted by Thirdbase

While I haven't read much of the older fantasy, so I can't comment on Conan or the others. I'll give my vote to Paksennarion from the Deed of Paksennarion. This character is probably the closest I've read to being a true hero.

 

But don't read anyhting else by the author

 

Why? I only ever read her Paksennarion series myself, and while I didn't care for the last two books (too AD&D for me) I thought the first was magnificent.

 

But what's so bad about her other books?

[Starwolf]

The Dragonlance Chronicles by Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman ( along with a couple of hundred spin off stories). The Hawk of May by Gillian Bradshaw (a somewhat historical fiction with a splash of sorcery thrown in. King Arthur with a twist). And finally The Book of Lost Swords by Karl Saberhagen (possibly the best magic sword series ever written).

[Farkling]

MMmmmmm.....Hawk and Fisher

Brust's Jhereg series.

 

Juliet McKenna

Tales of Einarinn

1. The Thief's Gamble (1999)

2. The Swordsman's Oath (1999)

3. The Gambler's Fortune (2000)

4. The Warrior's Bond (2001)

5. The Assassin's Edge (2002)

Nice magic system and societal structure for magic.

 

For a more swahbuckling story, try Brust's Phoenix Guards...they ape Dumas quite well and stand alone from Jhereg, taking place before the Cataclysm and during the Interrugum.