Resistant to being teleported and resistant to transdimensional powers

[Adventus]

I am thinking about building a character who has a dimensional vortex inside him feeding him energy.  REC 30.

 

I would like to make him resistant to teleport by others due to vortex.  and Resistant to trans-dimensional powers( powers bought with the trans-dimensional advantage or effect definiton).

 

How would you build this?

 

This is for  5E

[Christopher R Taylor]

The standard way would be either a triggered dispel or a suppress on him at all times, both of which are crazy expensive.  Another trick is to buy lots of density increase with "only to counter attempts to teleport" because teleport on others has a mass limit.  ExtraD movement is tough but you could cover both with just a lot of extra DCV against those specific kinds of attacks and figure people aren't likely to use area effect for them.

[Duke Bushido]

It might help to have a more precise explanation of the concept.  If the character is simply difficult to teleport but still takes normal damage or other effects from teleportation-themed effects (or Teleport Usable as Attack), then it's essentially a Disadvantage: he's difficult to bring with you when you want to teleport somewhere.

 

If he is resistant specifically to teleport-themed attacks, then you're going to get lots of answers, because the newer the edition, the more it demands precise mathematical builds with decreasing amounts of lip service to sfx.  What you would have here is defenses-- whichever you chose: PD, ED, Resistant, Reduction, etc-- with those defenses themselves being limited to only working against teleport-themed attacks.

 

Where it gets really wiggy is being resistant to Teleport: Usable as Attack.  I say "wiggy" because there really aren't pre-built powers that deal with this.  There are _accepted_ builds that we have used over the years: x inches of Flight, only to counter Flight: Usable as Attack, for example.  When used in gameplay, if you have 15" of Flight: UaA and the defender has 10" of Flight: only to resist Flight: UaA, then subtract the "resistance" from the attack and that is the total you've moved.  Don't get too hung up on pricing, either: "Only to resist this one specific movement power being used as an attack is an _extreme_ limitation.  I can't speak for everyone, but I'd start looking at -2, then compare the frequency of "movement useable as attack" in my games and, in all likelihood, would end up in -3 country.   However, that's for _my_ games: custom limitations are going to vary _considerably_ in relation to the campaign world.  Just as an example, if I was doing it today, in any of the groups I am involved with, it would probably be -4 or better, since I haven't seen "Movement: usable as attack" in my games since the 90s.

 

 

You could consider going with the 4e Trifecta of Cobble, and lean heavily on Desolid: only versus teleport: UaA and teleport themed attacks.  You know: if you want to just pass out aneurysms to your GM.    Beware, however, of Teleport: Usable as Attack, Affects Desolid. 

 

You know: I'd back up just a bit further: I'd take a hard look around the campaign universe-- even directly ask the GM-- if there is anyone or anything or any chance of T-port: UaA rearing its ugly head.  You're going to have to know this anyway to determine the value of a relevant limitation.  Seriously: there are a number of people, even on this board, who flat disallow it based on things like "It's raining men" and "let the bodies hit the floor."  Oh, and according to youtube, there's a scene in one of the X-Men movies that's hilarious / horrific featuring this very same build as well.  If you get a "No; that's not allowed in my games," then just declare that he is hard to teleport, take the Disadvantage so that he is hard for his allies to teleport as well, and call it good with defenses limited only to attacks with teleport themes.

 

 

Oooh!  Here's a screwy one: Density Increase, increase mass only, Triggered (attacked by Teleportation: Useable as Attack, etc-- buy enough levels of "mass increase" to startle the crap out of any would-be kidnappers and chuckle when they try it.   

 

 

If your guy happens to be a teleporter, consider holding a Phase in every combat specifically to use your T-port to counter someone else's.  Doesn't do much out of combat, but perhaps your GM can work on a Lightning Relexes /  Quick Draw / Power Skill thing that allows you to "abort to teleport Dodge" wherein you pit your T-port against the opponents, capped by the amount of T-port being used against you.  Kludgy, but really and truly, anything to defend against "non attack power used as an attack" is going to be kludgy unless you just buy limited inches of that same movement power only to defend against that movement power.

 

You get tangled up anyway, because limited inches _is_ an attack action, though Triggered _might_ fix that?  I don't remember for certain.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ha!

 

Christopher and I posted at the same time, and with the same idea about Density Increase!

 

That's the mood-lifting thing I needed today. 

 

 

[Dr.Device]

How about a barrier that prevents teleportation, with an auto-resetting trigger (whenever someone tries to teleport him)?

[Amorkca]

2 hours ago, Dr.Device said:

How about a barrier that prevents teleportation, with an auto-resetting trigger (whenever someone tries to teleport him)?

Perhaps add Hardened a few times for extra protection?

[Ninja-Bear]

I am going to go with Desolid only versus T-port and dimensional powers. Depending on how much the campaign has T-Port UAO  and Dimensional Powers, I can up to a -2 limitation.

 

Going with Dr.Device, I could see using Power Defense to Block said powers. Also perhaps look into Damage Negation.

[Ninja-Bear]

@Duke Bushido for aneurysm of the GM and only dealing with the T-port part. I present: Extra Dimension Travel with a Trigger! Anytime the Hero gets hit with a T-Port UAA, this kicks in and he “travels” to the correct spot in the correct dimension! Seriously though this power would be fairly cheap but how many characters are out there that can use T-Port as an attack?

[Greywind]

3 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

@Duke Bushido for aneurysm of the GM and only dealing with the T-port part. I present: Extra Dimension Travel with a Trigger! Anytime the Hero gets hit with a T-Port UAA, this kicks in and he “travels” to the correct spot in the correct dimension! Seriously though this power would be fairly cheap but how many characters are out there that can use T-Port as an attack?

 

It's a good way for them to find out they were in the wrong dimension all along.

[LoneWolf]

One thing to consider is that teleport can have a lot of different special effects besides moving through other dimensions.  Just because your power protects you from the most common form of teleportation does not mean it protects you from others.  You could have a speedster that has teleport with the special effect he moves so fast you cannot see him.  How is a dimensional vortex going to stop that?

 

UAA requires that the power have a reasonable common and obvious set of defenses to the power.  For Teleport UAA the most common defense is having your own teleportation powers.  So if your character already has teleport chances are you already have the defense to stop teleport UAA.  That does not prevent a teleporter from grabbing your character and teleporting both of you.  The problem with using desolidificaiton is that technically this requires that all your power has affects solid.  A lot of GM’s will probably let it pass, but according to the rules you need it.

 

Density increase is actually a very good solution.   Buy 7 levels of density increase 0 END, Persistent, Only for purpose of resisting dimensional powers (-1 ½) for 20 points. This gives you 12,800 kg of mass and +35 STR, +7 PD +7 ED, -14m of knockback.  This would cover both teleportation UAA (with the correct special effect) and Extra Dimensional movement UAA.   It would also give you +35 STR to resist oddball effects and a little extra PD and ED vs dimensional power (attacks with the transdimensional).  If you cannot turn it off add always on to reduce the cost to 16 points.   This is a lot cheaper than desolidification and actually works better.  
 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

You could have a speedster that has teleport with the special effect he moves so fast you cannot see him.  How is a dimensional vortex going to stop that?

 

I actually could see how, but this does bring up a minor quibble I have with the generic nature of Hero powers: special effects are important to the game, but often blown off by the mechanics.  Should Power Defense defined as magic resistance really stop a poison?  You have two choices: go simple, or have every power a huge block of "I covered every contingency" modifiers on it.  A bit more granularity on defenses might be a bonus, if done with restraint.

[Ninja-Bear]

Lonewolf brings up some good points!

[Christopher R Taylor]

Ninja-Bear is right about Lonewolf!

[Greywind]

The only comic source I am familiar with that has the ability was the Guardian/Vindicator armor from Alpha Flight. Nightcrawler tried to teleport him/her once and hurt himself because the armor didn't want to be moved like that.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Guardian's armor was pretty unique, it had that odd ability to stop its kinetic motion and let the earth rotate under it which acted like teleportation.  In fact it really should not have allowed Box to kill him the way it did, based on its kinetic energy control.

[Greywind]

I don't think Byrne thought that critically. His story plan required Hudson to die in issue 12.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah, which I mean I get killing an important and likable character is a powerful storytelling tool and nobody would have given a damn if Puck was rubbed out but... that really hurt.  I liked him a lot.

[Sketchpad]

I realize this is a bit of a stretch, but what about creating an Advantage for Knockback Resistance that effects Teleportation?

 

Affects Teleportation (+1½): Your Knockback Resistance allows you to apply your KB Resistance to Teleportation attacks (or any attempt to Teleport you for -½). To use, just subtract your KB Resistance from the Teleportation distance. If the result is 0, you do not teleport. If the result is positive, but lower than the intended Teleport distance, you only are transported that amount of meters. Note, this only affects normal Teleportation. Something like Megascale Teleport can only be affected by a Megascale application of this power.

 

Or, maybe make a new power all together that tethers the character?

 

TELEPORTATION RESISTANCE [STOP]

Type: Defense Power / Special Power
Perceivability: Imperceptible
Duration: Persistent
Target: Self Only
Range: Self
Costs END: No
Cost: 2 CP per -1m of Teleportation

Reduces Teleportation distance due to being a tether of some kind. This power reduces the meters of any Teleportation effect, and applies, by default, to all instances of Teleportation. 

 

[LoneWolf]

The problem with making up stuff that is not in the rules is that a lot of GMs will not allow it.  If you want something that subtracts from the teleportation why not use a triggered teleport. You could do 15” teleport, 0 End, Constant, Persistent, Trigger (takes no time, resets automatically), only to resist teleport for about 20 points.  The problem with this is it does not stop extra dimensional movement, or any other teleportation tricks.   

 

I still think the density increase is a better approach.  Not only does it stop you from being teleported or moved with extra dimensional movement it will also work against other powers of a similar nature.  Let’s say someone hits you with an entangle or telekinesis defined as an extra dimensional barrier.  The density increase gives you an additional 35 STR to resist that.  
 

[Ninja-Bear]

Another thought could be Deflect bought up to  18- with appropriate advantages and limitations.

[Tech]

If the character is unique, meaning there are no other characters with that TP resist ability, then I suggest talking to the GM and both of you make up a custom power for that character alone. I've done that with before as GM and it works; the Hero Games system comes up with about 99% of power conceptions but it's not perfect. Talk to your GM.

[Christopher R Taylor]

DCV works well: they can't teleport or XDM what they cannot hit.

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

DCV works well: they can't teleport or XDM what they cannot hit.

 

 

AoE:  1 hex.

 

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Sure, you can get around the DCV problem but... what is the likelihood someone buys that unless they're using a power pool or something?  I mean you cannot defend against every conceivable attack, just the reasonably expected ones.  The chances someone buys "teleport vs others" is pretty slight to begin with (although I did put a character with that in the Champions Begins villains).

[unclevlad]

Well, but there is a nasty rule...that you can't teleport someone who's unconscious without UAA.  IOW, an unconscious person is considered implicitly unwilling, so Teleport usable simultaneously fails on that test.  This is rather annoying;  teleport is an *awesome* rescue power, and there's too much of a chance that a persone requiring an evac, won't be conscious.  (And those that aren't can reasonably be presumed to be most *at need* of immediate evac to medical attention.)  Sure, what you don't want is the ability to simply snatch someone sleeping straight from their bed into your hidden island stronghold, or prison cell, or 1000' over an erupting volcano.

 

But that's the problem here.  The evacuation scenario is one every DM would be willing to allow;  the other scenarios are just as clearly creating massive holes in plot lines and world building, and that's true in every gaming system.

 

So...options might be:

--rewrite Teleport *greatly*.  How often do comics teleporters actually teleport an entire team?  I really don't know, because I can't remember that many teleporters.  So are we basing off the fantasy, magical teleport?  That might not be a great basis.

--Eliminate UBO, *period*.  In all forms.  It's too damn easy to play games with advantages;  it's a HECK of a lot harder with adders.  The mass mult is an adder.  Toss on that any sentients *must be willing*.  Or alternately, must at least be incapable of resisting, to allow for rescue teleporting.

 

Several aspects of Teleport seem to be designed to make it hard to use, which rather strongly suggests it's overpowered in the first place.    Some of this is the non-scaling, no-defense nature.  Well, OK...define a scaling and a defense.  5" of base Teleport == 1d6 of "teleport attack".  Define a "negate teleport" defense...2 points maybe buys 3 points of defense.  Count the pips on the "teleport attack dice" and reduce by the defense.  If the attack still has a positive number, the teleport happens.

[dmjalund]

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

How often do comics teleporters actually teleport an entire team?  I really don't know, because I can't remember that many teleporters.

Magik (New Mutants) did it fairly often