Teleportation, useable as an attack...

[Marcus]

I want yalls take on something... Im not looking at anything grossly horrible, like Megascale 'Port as an attack... just a simple Teleport, 20", useable as an attack, at range, position shift...

 

Would this enable a character to reach out and move someone to another hex, and leave them prone in the new hex?

 

And if so, how 'unbalancing' does it strike everyone as being? The local GM doesnt seem to see it as a real big deal (its a ranged martial throw, that gives more control over where they go, but does no damage) yet the local Martial Artist player reacted with shrieking horror (not suprising, he reacts to EVERY idea of mine with shrieking horror).

 

Just wanted yall's first-glance take.

[Chuckg]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

There's a canon character in CKC -- Tesseract -- who has almost exactly the same power.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

It's a legal build. You just have to get the GM to approve it, which really shldnt be a problem for most GMs.

 

the MA guy is probably just jealous he doesn't think of the cool ideas first.

 

It's not that unbalancing, I can think of a lot of ways around it .. you still need an attack roll so a high DCV helps. Against an opponent with a Position Shift movement power of their own making them prone is of little help and moving them around might be in their favor, might not. It does no damage so it's not as effective as a Legsweep maneuver either. Heck .. you can even use it on your friends - get them out of Entagles and on their feet in one little move.

 

It's a cool Telekinetic trick, go with it.

[Col. Orange]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

I see... I see... I see a martial artist getting Teleported 20" straight up.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

Perfectly legal and not at all unbalancing (well, compared to other UAA Powers). Just another way to buy a TK Throw (other than actually using TK).

[nexus]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

Perfectly legal and not at all unbalancing (well' date=' compared to other UAA Powers). Just another way to buy a TK Throw (other than actually using TK).[/quote']

 

My knee jerk reaction is "yikes". but that because I have seen Teleport UAO really really abused. Teleport straight up, teleport straight down, teleport in front fast moving object. Teleport out of moving vehicles, etc.

[Knightraven]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

I'm afraid I've broken my poor players. They never even suggest any powers that might seem in the slightest way abusive.

Part of me is grateful but I'd also like to be challenged occasionally. The most I got was a fella slipping buy me with a passing strike and enough levels that the non-com OCV penalty wasn't a problem.

The first time he hit someone for 24 dice....

[Lupus]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

There's a canon character in CKC -- Tesseract -- who has almost exactly the same power.

Tesseract is the one with an NND Entangle too, isn't she?

 

I'm not sure I'd allow a Usable As Attack, with Range. Though Marcus is right - this isn't as bad as UAA Megascale movement.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

Tesseract is the one with an NND Entangle too, isn't she?

 

No, that's Captain Chronos (i think his name is).

[Vorsch]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

There seems to be a great loathing by GMs for Teleport UAO, while its true its not a common power in comics its certainly a obvious power for a versatile teleporter. Its a power that is never realy used to its full effect by writers but when given to a player they will use it intelligantly, hence the problem.

 

Teleport straight up is the same as someone using Tk to throw someone straight up.

 

Teleporting someone to a hex you cant see or into solid objects shouldnt be allowed.

 

I woulnd allow megascale versions but then again i consider megascale broken wherever it turns up.

[sbarron]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

Teleporting someone to a hex you cant see or into solid objects shouldnt be allowed.

I had a PC build a Teleport UAO once. Initially he was psyched about teleporting opponents into the air and letting them fall for damage. Then he read the rules for teleporting into objects, and suddenly decided that was the way to go. I put the nix on it after that. Good players would probably be ok with it. But it is ripe for abuse.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

This just makes it a STOP power for me. It means that I am going to have to police the ability a bit more.

 

As to 'Porting people into objects and vice versa that is a separate power, remember that damage is when something goes wrong, it should not be used offensively. Buy a Killing attack or NND EB for that.

 

Why? Because that is what Hero is about, you spend points to get an effect. The effect here is teleporting people into objects and hurting them. That sounds like a mechanic of Killing attack perhaps double knockback with the SFX you 'ported them over there.

 

Anyway what I am saying is you shouldn't give a teleporter any more ability than you would a telepath or telekinetic. In a Superhero game we all need to spend points or use Power skill to pull off tricks. Most of us jiust spend the points.

 

Hawksmoor

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

I had a PC build a Teleport UAO once. Initially he was psyched about teleporting opponents into the air and letting them fall for damage. Then he read the rules for teleporting into objects' date=' and suddenly decided that was the way to go. I put the nix on it after that. [/quote']

 

My ruling was that the damage taken by the person teleported would also be suffered by the teleporter as backlash. It kind of put people off the idea of using it regularly as an attack form but left it open for emergency situations.

 

 

Doc

[nexus]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

But with TK, you have to "Grab" them (and they can escape) and have enough TK strength to hurl them up a good distance. Teleport UAA gets around those restrictions and you can do it regardless of situations. A TK would have be able to throw threw the wall, a teleporter can you just *bamf* you outside the building and 30 stories up.

 

But like I said I've had some bad experiences with the power.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

But with TK, you have to "Grab" them (and they can escape) and have enough TK strength to hurl them up a good distance. Teleport UAA gets around those restrictions and you can do it regardless of situations. A TK would have be able to throw threw the wall, a teleporter can you just *bamf* you outside the building and 30 stories up.

 

But like I said I've had some bad experiences with the power.

 

True, but you still have to hit with the Teleport attack vs. their DCV. Plus when has wall strength really been a deterence to good knockback? If you are going through the wall...you are going through the wall.

 

But like I said it is a STOP power to me. I would watch each application carefully. Throughout the game!

 

Hawksmoor

[ghost-angel]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

If you think the potential abuse from Teleporting someone into a solid object is not good .. then don't allow it.

 

Someone suggested you can only Teleport another into a hex you can see, which is a good idea. Any attempt to do so automatically fails the power (or assume that Telepory UAA inherently has Safe Blind and no damage can ever be done).

 

just don't let the player buy N-Ray Perception.

[Vorsch]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

in a 60AP game teleport UAO range is only 12", hardly a game breaker. Dont let it do damage and your set to go.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

I always strictly control any form of Movement UAA, as it is extremely easy to abuse.

 

The classic two power combos w/ T-Port UAA is A) The Bouncing Betty attack (T-Porting people straight up and letting them fall for falling damage) and The Deer In Headlights attack (T-Porting people directly into the path of a large moving vehicle or a Move-Thru specialist).

 

I let a character have a T-Port UAA once before, but w/ an Activation Roll and a Side Effect -- if the Activation Roll failed the PC T-Ported to where he was trying to T-Port the target instead. This somewhat curbed the more cheesy/damage resulting combos.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

I'm afraid I've broken my poor players. They never even suggest any powers that might seem in the slightest way abusive.

Part of me is grateful but I'd also like to be challenged occasionally. The most I got was a fella slipping buy me with a passing strike and enough levels that the non-com OCV penalty wasn't a problem.

The first time he hit someone for 24 dice....

I don't get it. OCV at non-combat speed is always 0. Levels mean nothing at that speed.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

There's no balance issue of teleporting others into objects for damage. It's forbidden by the rules (FREd page 240 "It is impossible for a character deliberately to Teleport another character into a solid object, even if the Teleportation is bought Usable As Attack.")

 

Other than that, it's not more inherantly unbalancing as an EB. For the same points you get the same damage from teleporting an opponent straight up and letting them fall as if you'd just EB them (plus they have a chance to avoid the damage or negate it with a Breakfall roll).

 

It it really bugs you, enforce the 1/2 Move rules. If you've already made a half move, you can only teleport your tartet a 1/2 move.

 

What I'm surprised most people don't try is this:

 

Go Directly To Jail, Do Not Pass Go: Teleportation 10" 20 Fixed Locations (individual cells on level 4 of Stronghold) MegaScale (1"=1,000 km, +1) Ranged (+1/2) UAA (+1) (140 Active) Only To Fixed Locations (-1) Real Cost: 70.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

Go Directly To Jail' date=' Do Not Pass Go[/i']: Teleportation 10" 20 Fixed Locations (individual cells on level 4 of Stronghold) MegaScale (1"=1,000 km, +1) Ranged (+1/2) UAA (+1) (140 Active) Only To Fixed Locations (-1) Real Cost: 70.

This does assume, of course, that you'll always be more than 1,000 km from Stronghold when you use this Power. Probably valid, but I just thought I'd point it out. As an alternative:

 

Go Directly To Jail, Do Not Pass Go: Teleportation 2" 20 Fixed Locations (individual cells on level 4 of Stronghold) MegaScale (1"=100,000 km, +1.5), Can Be Scaled Down To 1" = 1 km (+1/4) Ranged (+1/2) UAA (+1) (28 Active) Only To Fixed Locations (-1) Real Cost: 24

 

Of course, to put someone in Stronghold, you'll likely need to make the T-Port x3 Armor Piercing (because of the Hardened Defenses) but with my construction, that won't up the cost a significant amount.

 

And if you want to be really nasty, add Area of Effect: 1 Hex (+1/2) -- that way, you've only got to hit a DCV of 3! Of course, it does mean anyone else in the same hex as the target goes along,too, but oh wel...

[Barton]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

This does assume, of course, that you'll always be more than 1,000 km from Stronghold when you use this Power. Probably valid, but I just thought I'd point it out. As an alternative:

 

Go Directly To Jail, Do Not Pass Go: Teleportation 2" 20 Fixed Locations (individual cells on level 4 of Stronghold) MegaScale (1"=100,000 km, +1.5), Can Be Scaled Down To 1" = 1 km (+1/4) Ranged (+1/2) UAA (+1) (28 Active) Only To Fixed Locations (-1) Real Cost: 24

 

Of course, to put someone in Stronghold, you'll likely need to make the T-Port x3 Armor Piercing (because of the Hardened Defenses) but with my construction, that won't up the cost a significant amount.

 

And if you want to be really nasty, add Area of Effect: 1 Hex (+1/2) -- that way, you've only got to hit a DCV of 3! Of course, it does mean anyone else in the same hex as the target goes along,too, but oh wel...

 

I had a character with this power. It is unbalancing. My planned combats would not work because he would teleport the bad guys away. I made him add one charge/day to it. That made it powerful but not overboard.

[freakboy6117]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

that power is really nasty against speedsters even a short teleport attack with the velocity control adder can be used to drop a fast moving opponant to zero velocity in perfect line for a comrades attack. i actually bought a teleport as part of a speedsters package so they could come to a complet halt in next to no distance.

 

you could make a continous area effect version that just dumped a speedster outside with zero velocity would make an excellent defense againt a Flash/quicksilver type enemy.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

i actually bought a teleport as part of a speedsters package so they could come to a complet halt in next to no distance.

You should check out "Combat Acceleration/Deceleration" under Movement Powers.

[drrushing]

Re: Teleportation, useable as an attack...

 

My ruling was that the damage taken by the person teleported would also be suffered by the teleporter as backlash. It kind of put people off the idea of using it regularly as an attack form but left it open for emergency situations.

 

 

Doc

 

I totally agree with Doc's assessment. Giving a player the ability to virtually kill any opponent is NOT GOOD. That being said, when the player ALSO suffers 20 Body NND whenever they 'Port their opponent INTO a reinforced concrete basement, they may reconsider their actions. The idea of the power is meant to be useful, and versatile, not a cheap excuse as a character killer.