John515 Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Poor guy never seems to get a break. Did the actual character get beat up a lot in playtest or something? Just curious...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mightybec Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? Because it's better than a picture of him shaving his legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterhawk Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? Because Seeker doesn't exist in the 5th Edition Universe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? That's because Nighthawk is Seeker's Secret ID. You see Seeker was sick of getting the crap beat out of him. So, he created a new persona like that Bat guy. Tough, menacing, dark... He never noticed that Bat Guy only fought normal guys, never those super shooting rays out of their hands folks. So, he gets to have his ass handed to him in his new persona now. Poor guy, never gets a break. Perhaps he should retire, or move to Hudson city where a guy with his talents could go far. At least as long as he stays away from the Harbinger of Justice. This is my theory and I am sticking too it. Tasha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? Because every 5th Edition supervillain has an invisible disad: Berserk when facing vigilantes with ducks on thier heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palehorse Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? Maybe he's just into that sort of thing... hangs around and begs supers to beat him up. Until one of them throws him down an elevator shaft. (A day without a Watchmen reference is like a day without sunshine... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? Maybe the yutz should learn something from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agemegos Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? (A day without a Watchmen reference is like a day without sunshine... ) Exactly as you say. When do we get a smiley with a fleck of bblood across its eye? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? I think his silly headgear makes it too easy to hit him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Cross Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? Because he's not good enough to cut it in the big leagues..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? In case you haven't gotten the idea yet, John.... It started as coincidence in the USPD, and now Nighthawk's taken over Seeker's old running gag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? For starters, it's because there seems to be a tendency to depict the heroes getting beat on in general. Take a *good* look through the USPD for example -- yep, pretty much a collection of heroes & heroines getting the wrong end of the combat. Why is that? I think the #1 reason is DOJ's perhaps understandable policy of not publishing many heroic NPC's "so they don't steal the spotlight from the PC's". Insert crack about how everyone's campaign isn't heroic here... As a result you have a short list of heroes to appear in the artwork, by nature limiting the list that is going to be on the receiving end when the beatdown occurs. Closely related to this is the -- I'm about to get in trouble here but I have to say this -- blandness of the Champions. They're so well designed as archetypes that their powers don't lend themselves to interesting visuals. As a result, especially in USPD where the pictures represent interesting use of interesting power, guess who gets drawn in the favorable position? Then there's the "visually interesting" thing. Nightduck and Ironclad are far more distinctive than Defender, Sapphire, and Witchcraft -- and at least one of the HERO artists (I forget which one) made the point that Ironclad is difficult to "get right". So they're naturally going to tend toward the visually distinctive but easy(ier) to draw Nightduck. Then there's something downright Freudian -- I think we might be seeing Nightduck getting beat on as a subconscious reaction to what BatMan has become in the last decade or so. In the same way that Wolverine has become a loathed character because of his built-up uberness, perhaps the artists are taking their loathing out on poor Nightduck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? Hmm. Anybody who's got a lot of the 3rd Edition and earlier supplements ... check to see if the team Martial Artist of those 'iconic' teams were usually depicted as getting the snerd beat out of them. It may just be a curse ... like the Chicago Cubs. "Hello, this is Defender. I'm returning your call about your application to our organization. Our Speedster position is filled, but if you're interested, we have an opening in the Martial Artist division ... hello? Hello? Are you still there?" "I have got to repair this phone ... that's the fifth time this week." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? Poor guy never seems to get a break. Did the actual character get beat up a lot in playtest or something? Just curious...... Actually, the character was playtested by a wonderful player and good friend of mine, Chris Galatti, who despite his many skills as a player could never quite get his head around playing a dark vigilante of the night. Just wasn't in his nature, I guess. So Nighthawk in playtest tended to be very straightforward and not at all sneaky. We did an early adventure where a reporter had disappeared, and the heroes knew he had some evidence in his apartment. We expected Nighthawk to sneak over, break into his apartment and take the relevant computer disks, etc. That never occurred to Chris, so he marched up to the front door of the apartment building, in the middle of the night, and demanded to be let in. The angry, cigar-smoking superintendent in his stained t-shirt of course refused, and the two had an argument through the closed door, with Nighthawk getting more and more outraged. Finally, Chris snaps, and shouts at the super, "You're going on my list!" When we stopped laughing, we decreed that from then on Nighthawk carried his "Enemies List" in his utility belt and added to it whenever somebody ticked him off. We used that list as a joke for weeks, and it never got less funny. Bad guys stole the list. Somebody (in a nod to the Simpsons) replaced it with Nixon's list ("Ginsburg, Dean, Fonda... what the hell?") One time, when Nighthawk was sneaking around inside a Viper nest, he tried to knock down a door and utterly blew his roll- all ones for damage. He hit the door hard, stopped, said "Oww!" and crumpled to the ground. When he got up, he reached for his list and wrote, "Door." Put the list away, stopped, took it out again and added, "Guy who built door." We didn't stop laughing for twenty minutes. On the other hand, I don't recall Nighthawk ever losing a fight in playtest. He's really heinously good with that baton. He also beat a couple of Viper agents with a fish at one point, IIRC, but that's a different story. dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? Because every 5th Edition supervillain has an invisible disad: Berserk when facing vigilantes with ducks on their heads. You are close. Nighthawk suffers from something called "The Daffy Syndrome". The reason it is hard to recognize, is that we do not get to see the previous panels, or "hear" the dialog. But, through forensic retrocognitive analysis, I have discovered the source of Nighthawk's problems. First, for those of you not familiar with "The Daffy Syndrome", let me give a bit of background. Ducks, while basically brave enough, tend to panic in combat situations. They have a tendency to develop a situational variation on Tourette's Syndrome. Ducks have been known to make random, nonsensical, and even downright suicidal comments in the heat of combat. This has even been known to manifest itself in those who wear the duck as an emblem or symbol. So, the reason you see Nighthawk on the receiving end of so much punishment, is his tragic tendency to yell out things during combat like: "Duck Season!" "I demand you shoot me now!" "Shoot the duck!" KA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? He gets beaten up alot because he has a duck on his head, a background that just doesn't work for a hero, and he replaced the far superior Seeker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just A Guy Name Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? Cool story, Darren! 'Cept for the strange, inappropriate comment at the end;) I always thought it was just because he's..well, kinda wimpy. Plus, there is that costume issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? Hmm. Anybody who's got a lot of the 3rd Edition and earlier supplements ... check to see if the team Martial Artist of those 'iconic' teams were usually depicted as getting the snerd beat out of them. Well, Foxbat was made fun of and got an ice cream cone in the face. Black Pallidin got opened up by Anklysour. Doing a quick flip through 3rd, a lot of unknowns are depicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? Why does Jerry (the cat) always get beat up? Why does Mr. Bill always wind up getting the worst of it? Why does Vlade Divacz always wind up being knocked to the floor (OK, bad example... he's a huge ham whose never actually been knocked down for real in a game in his life). But you get my point. For every Itchy there is a Scratchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caris Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? Why does Jerry (the cat) always get beat up? I thought the cat was Tom, and the mouse was Jerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GestaltBennie Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? Every comic book hero gets beaten up on the cover. I'm sure if you look hard enough, you can find an issue of Superman where he's beaten to a bloody pulp, and the Prankster's standing over him with his foot on his chest. And inevitably, it has nothing to do with what's in the actual book. Champions honors this glorious tradition of Silver Age comics whose covers are an outright lie. (Unless it depicts Dr. Destroyer laying on the beating, in which case it's probably sugarcoating the bloodbath. :-) See VIPER, Coils of the Serpent, p. 17-18 for a truer perpective on Nighthawk and what a combat with him is *really* like. Scott Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawksmoor Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? I have a note from NightHawks doctor he says that Nighthawk has a medical condition that makes people *want* to hit him. It is unavoidable, it is unstoppable you have to hit him! Hawksmoor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? Of course, that was versus VIPER agents. While VIPER agents are nothing to sneeze at, two 150 point agents vs one 350 point street leveler = two unconscious agents. In some ways, thats what street level types are for in superteams: to protect the "bigger" supers from agents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karma Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 I know it's been said before... ... but I gotta say it again. "You take Seeker's place on the team, you get Seeker's butt-kickings absolutely free" What? It's true. Everyone, artists included sees Nighthawk as the 'Seeker' of 5th Ed. Poor guy he didn't even get the cudos of 'taking on Dr Destroyer single handedly on the cover of the Champions book' that Seeker had. Then again, Seeker was an Aussie so he was more heroic. ;P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Re: Why does Nighthawk always get depicted getting the crap kicked out of him? I have a note from NightHawks doctor he says that Nighthawk has a medical condition that makes people *want* to hit him. It is unavoidable, it is unstoppable you have to hit him! Hawksmoor I have that, but my doctor refuses to let me get workmans comp for it. His advice was stop being an ass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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