Real world vs. Game world

[Harry Canyon]

 

Howdy,

 

There are many places where we ignore the real world for the genre. For instance: How does a world wide criminal organization like VIPER exist? (Posed in the VIPER sourcebook.) Answer: it just does because it's part of the genre (at least that's the answer I remember )

 

Well this got me to thinking (you smelled smoke too? )... How do folks handle all the damage done by battles between superbeings in their games? Are the heroes held responsible and required to make restitution? Does the government pay (probably only in the case of appropriately sponsored groups... at least that's how I'd handle it.)? Do the affected individuals/businesses insurances cover it? Does "damage by superbeings" coverage exist in insurance policies in your game? Or do you even worry about any of this?

 

Uhh... That was a few more questions than I thought.

 

Thanks in advance if you've read this far!

 

Take care,

 

Derek

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

I drive it home that damage done by supers needs to be contained as much as possible or you face the wrath of everything.

 

In one game, a player used a villain like a baseball bat, swinging him into the wall of an apartment building. This is public destruction that could have been avoided. This means he got bad press. I will use this to drive home the point "don't do that!"

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

In addition to trying to minimize the damage done, our group has helped repair damage from stopping villains when we could. We also pay $300,000 a year, each, to retain the services of Damage Control, Inc. to handle repairs and such in as quick and efficient a manner possible.

 

(Or I should say, Dr. Anomaly shells that out on behalf of each team member. Good thing I spent quite a number of points on Wealth... )

[assault]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

Do the affected individuals/businesses insurances cover it? Does "damage by superbeings" coverage exist in insurance policies in your game? Or do you even worry about any of this?

 

When I first played my character Assault, he was a "Hero for Hire". His insurance payments eventually forced him out of business.

 

Of course, massive property damage was one of his specialties.

 

Generally I wouldn't worry about this kind of thing, but it was appropriate for the character in this case.

[beauxdeigh]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

 

Well this got me to thinking (you smelled smoke too? )... How do folks handle all the damage done by battles between superbeings in their games? Are the heroes held responsible and required to make restitution? Does the government pay (probably only in the case of appropriately sponsored groups... at least that's how I'd handle it.)? Do the affected individuals/businesses insurances cover it? Does "damage by superbeings" coverage exist in insurance policies in your game? Or do you even worry about any of this?

 

Uhh... That was a few more questions than I thought.

 

Thanks in advance if you've read this far!

 

Take care,

 

Derek

 

This was a question I considered as well when I was building my game world. One of the things I came up with (after some of the excellent suggestions above about bad press and insurance) was this:

 

After 40 some years of supers busting up private property and illegaly breaking and entering, businesses would want to get pro-active about supers. From this need several security agencies arose. Well funded by hopeful investors, these agencies use high tech equipment and some paranormal personnel to provide protection in these situations. The most successful of these is ADAPT Security Enterprises (Active Defense Against Paranormal Trespass).

 

Depending on what their clients are willing to spend, ADAPT offers different levels of security based on different kinds of threats. This includes:

• On-site personnel. From one agent to a small cadre, each armed with myriad of restraining tools (entange throwers and power suppressors). Super powered agents are available to address specific threats in specific situations. Agents do not carry weapony that would unnecessarily risk property or client personnel.
  
  
• Property protection. Strategically installed force wall generators help guard buildings from wayward superbattles. High security 'safe rooms' protect property and prototypes from super thieves and shadowy vigilantes. Site wide mental dampners protect intellectual property from being stolen before it's put to paper.
  
  
• Emergency support. When natural or unnatural disasters strike, ADAPT agents are trained to provide your company with leadership and policies to protect your personnel and property to the best of their ability.

ADAPT has offices in over 25 cities across the country and is constantly expanding. They recently were co-sponsors of an airline security system deveoped for Homeland Security to identify some paranormal abilities (EWaMD, I don't have my notes to tell you what that stands for), hoping that the technology could help them provide better private security in the future. Also, by hiring one of these agencies, businesses can get a substantial discount on their 'Act of Super' insurance.

 

I mostly use ADAPT for my campaigns, and they can be a boon or a bane depending on what the heroes are trying to accomplish. While they are present to protect property and can minimize a hero's worries about wanton destruction, they also severely complicate 'unofficial' investigations by those same heroes. ADAPT has a policy about not serving as a shield for any known criminal activity, so they won't knowingly guard a business cover for a VIPER Nest, and as soon as they discover that ths is the case, they will pack up and leave a client hanging (which can be fun). That, and it's a good place to deposit supers that don't fit as heroes, villains or government agents. Interesting NPC and roleplaying opportunities.

 

That's what I did anyway.

[Phil]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

I assume that in a world where superscience can do the most amazing things, pretty much the first thing that the Mr Fabulous and his gadgeteering chum the Brown Beetle will make are a series of robot drones that can be employed by the city and short notice to make safe any property damage and automatically undertake repairs. It's that or face twice-daily IRS inspections. I think they'd go along with it

[Fenixcrest]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

I assume that in a world where superscience can do the most amazing things' date=' pretty much the first thing that the Mr Fabulous and his gadgeteering chum the Brown Beetle will make are a series of robot drones that can be employed by the city and short notice to make safe any property damage and automatically undertake repairs. It's that or face twice-daily IRS inspections. I think they'd go along with it [/quote']

 

That's what I go with to a certain extent. There are mechanical drones that come by and repair city property over the next 24 hours. However, they only repair private property if that property is insured against "Super-Collateral."

[Blue]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

Supers *are* responsible. I've mitigated some of this by having the super-team insured. But this only serves to caution them against doing crazy, city-breaking stunts, because of the possibility of having their insurer insist the city drop that hero from the superteam else lose their policy.

 

In other words, damage happens and that's expected. But blatant, crazy damage for the sake of doing something spectacular may result in you becoming a solo hero

 

(Hasnt' happened yet, btw)

[Hermit]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

Heck, in some areas of my setting the cost of superhuman insurance was getting so bad that the government put a cap on it

[Phil]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

Heck' date=' in some areas of my setting the cost of superhuman insurance was getting so bad that the government put a cap on it[/quote']

Why on earth would they do that? What business is it of the government to put a cap on private commerce? And how would they fund the shortfall? I reckon it's time those XPs were spent on 'Filthy Rich' (Rationale: Bit of insider trading on the Superhero insurance market ) and they should start to pay for their own repairs!

[Cancer]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

Since insurance companies are the evil overlords, superhero insurance is both excessively expensive and claims are always denied. Remember Mr. Incredible's boss.

 

Who me? A former insurance company employee?

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

ADAPT Security Enterprises (Active Defense Against Paranormal Trespass).

Repped! (Not to mention stolen!)

 

In my games I mostly use the "they're insured" handwave. But excessive or wanton destruction can have negative repurcussions for the heroes, ranging from bad publicity to - in the extreme - ballot initiatives to change the law to hold supers accountable for their damages. (Never had to pull the last one...yet.)

 

 

bigdamnhero

"Life is like a sewer: what you get out of it depends on what you put into it."

[Hermit]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

I have occaisonally had relatively "low threat" supervillains forced to use their powers to repair buildings as sort of a community service.

[beauxdeigh]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

Repped! (Not to mention stolen!)

 

In my games I mostly use the "they're insured" handwave. But excessive or wanton destruction can have negative repurcussions for the heroes, ranging from bad publicity to - in the extreme - ballot initiatives to change the law to hold supers accountable for their damages. (Never had to pull the last one...yet.)

 

Thanks, glad you liked it.

 

I've had groups in the past that haven't been as concerned about property damage as the current group is, and I've had to pull out the law on them. My current group is much more careful...and truer to their heroic position in the genre. I've appreciated that. ADAPT is just flavor for them at this point.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

Hi,

 

Supers responsible for the damage they cause? Isn't saving the world from domination or destruction enough? Yeah, I've grappled with this one more than once, and the answer came from an unlikely source (which I've incorporated in my current campaign).

 

The Incredibles tackled the subject by saying the federal government was in charge of cleaning up the messes caused by super heroes and villains. My take on it is there's a government unit (presumably with great ties to the Federal Emergency Management Agency) called the Bureau of Metahuman Affairs. They handle the paperwork and bid out the repair jobs in the various areas where registered metahumans (i.e. Superheroes) are active.

 

The reason the government is willing to tolerate the bills? Because even though supercrime rates invariably go up where supers are active, normal crime takes a nosedive, more than balancing the books. Insurance companies like it, the governement likes it, the people like it -- win, win, win!

 

Okay, it is idealistic, but then, what four-color genre superhero game isn't?

 

Matt "The-ever-lovin'-old-school-comics-fan" Frisbee

[clsage]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

Hi,

 

Supers responsible for the damage they cause? Isn't saving the world from domination or destruction enough? Yeah, I've grappled with this one more than once, and the answer came from an unlikely source (which I've incorporated in my current campaign).

 

The Incredibles tackled the subject by saying the federal government was in charge of cleaning up the messes caused by super heroes and villains. My take on it is there's a government unit (presumably with great ties to the Federal Emergency Management Agency) called the Bureau of Metahuman Affairs. They handle the paperwork and bid out the repair jobs in the various areas where registered metahumans (i.e. Superheroes) are active.

 

The reason the government is willing to tolerate the bills? Because even though supercrime rates invariably go up where supers are active, normal crime takes a nosedive, more than balancing the books. Insurance companies like it, the governement likes it, the people like it -- win, win, win!

 

Okay, it is idealistic, but then, what four-color genre superhero game isn't?

 

Matt "The-ever-lovin'-old-school-comics-fan" Frisbee

 

I've been working on a slightly similar idea for a campaign I've yet to start

running...

 

Background:

 

In 1964, the Liberty Bell was almost stolen. The perpetrator (villain name

not at hand right now...sorry) was stopped by the efforts of Philadelphias'

finest, Echo and Shimmer. The perpetrator then sued for unlawfull arrest/etc.

After much legal wrangling, Congress passed the Special Response Groups

Act. The act basically says that heros who agree to certain conditions

become (to steal a line from the 1960's Batman film ) "Duely deputized

officers of the law." Specifically, agents of the Justice Department with

investigative powers similar (though modified) to those held by members of

the FBI.

 

Now....If a hero (or hero group) operates under the umbrella of the SRGA,

then the government provides low or no cost liability insurance for potential

colateral damage incidents. Of course, if said group or hero have too many

such occurances, their status under the SRGA can be changed and the

cost of said insurance can go up.

 

As for "lone wolves" who operate beyond the auspices and agreements

of the SRGA ? Well, they have to pay for their own insurance. IF they can

qualify and afford the coverage.

 

-Carl-

[TheRavenIs]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

This was a question I considered as well when I was building my game world. One of the things I came up with (after some of the excellent suggestions above about bad press and insurance) was this:

 

After 40 some years of supers busting up private property and illegaly breaking and entering, businesses would want to get pro-active about supers. From this need several security agencies arose. Well funded by hopeful investors, these agencies use high tech equipment and some paranormal personnel to provide protection in these situations. The most successful of these is ADAPT Security Enterprises (Active Defense Against Paranormal Trespass).

 

Depending on what their clients are willing to spend, ADAPT offers different levels of security based on different kinds of threats. This includes:

• On-site personnel. From one agent to a small cadre, each armed with myriad of restraining tools (entange throwers and power suppressors). Super powered agents are available to address specific threats in specific situations. Agents do not carry weapony that would unnecessarily risk property or client personnel.
  
  
• Property protection. Strategically installed force wall generators help guard buildings from wayward superbattles. High security 'safe rooms' protect property and prototypes from super thieves and shadowy vigilantes. Site wide mental dampners protect intellectual property from being stolen before it's put to paper.
  
  
• Emergency support. When natural or unnatural disasters strike, ADAPT agents are trained to provide your company with leadership and policies to protect your personnel and property to the best of their ability.

ADAPT has offices in over 25 cities across the country and is constantly expanding. They recently were co-sponsors of an airline security system deveoped for Homeland Security to identify some paranormal abilities (EWaMD, I don't have my notes to tell you what that stands for), hoping that the technology could help them provide better private security in the future. Also, by hiring one of these agencies, businesses can get a substantial discount on their 'Act of Super' insurance.

 

I mostly use ADAPT for my campaigns, and they can be a boon or a bane depending on what the heroes are trying to accomplish. While they are present to protect property and can minimize a hero's worries about wanton destruction, they also severely complicate 'unofficial' investigations by those same heroes. ADAPT has a policy about not serving as a shield for any known criminal activity, so they won't knowingly guard a business cover for a VIPER Nest, and as soon as they discover that ths is the case, they will pack up and leave a client hanging (which can be fun). That, and it's a good place to deposit supers that don't fit as heroes, villains or government agents. Interesting NPC and roleplaying opportunities.

 

That's what I did anyway.

 

Stolen and repped. I did this once but you did it better.

[Adventus]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

I have read a book on something like this taken to the extreme.

 

Those who Walk in Darkness by John Ridley.

 

In this book a Supervillian takes San Francisco hostage. Before the citizen, normals, can pay the ransom a Superhero flies in and tries to stop the Evil villian. Only he doesn't. The city is completely destroyed. The US Government, in shock, passes an Executive Order, declaring all Superbeing persona non grata. They have 30 days to leave the country or be 'arrested'! This lead to the formation of MTac, a specially trained division of the police who hunt down and try to arrest metanormals. The story focuses on one member of the Los Angeles Mtac division, Soledad O'Roark. She is a black woman who uses an unauthorized electronic pistol to take down a pyrokinetic with White Phosphorous rounds. The story is bout what happens to her as a result.

 

The parts where they discuss how to take down various types of metanormals is priceless. The most feared type is the Telepath. If you run into one of these you will end up blowing your brains out.

[vitruvian23]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

Since insurance companies are the evil overlords, superhero insurance is both excessively expensive and claims are always denied. Remember Mr. Incredible's boss.

 

Who me? A former insurance company employee?

 

Heh - it would be fun to find out that the insurance company to which you pay tremendous premiums and are always fighting with over claims is actually a front for the local VIPER cell. When you take them out, you of course lose your coverage until you can find another carrier - and the property management company that leased the building to VIPER (what, you think they'd buy?) brings a lawsuit against you for damages since there's no insurer to go after...

 

The US Government, in shock, passes an Executive Order, declaring all Superbeing persona non grata. They have 30 days to leave the country or be 'arrested'!

 

The setup for this was rather lacking, in that there was plenty of time between the event cited and the events of the book for a test case to get to the courts (and likely have the EO overturned as too broad - what threat is a person with a minor power who never engaged in criminal or vigilante activity anyway?). However, it appears that this has yet to happen - every superhuman's response has been to leave or go into hiding. It also seems odd that all the superhumans being taken down by the squad are either slightly deranged or basically innocent - nobody deciding that this action made it open season for out and out supervillain action, therefore going out and proactively committing crimes. After all, outlaw superpowers, and only outlaws will have them...

 

Far more likely would be more stringent laws against vigilante action by anyone, superhuman or not, and massive government recruitment of superhumans to work directly in the established chain of command for law enforcement, disaster relief, etc. Even a registration law (which would have to be for powers specifically able to cause harm, not just any powers at all) would probably take quite a while to push through. If DHS and similar bodies did just decide to stamp out all superhuman activity in a hysterical reaction to the disaster, they'd be very unlikely to offer deportation as an option, given that that potentially puts superhuman resources into the hands of other nations... you'd sooner see concentration camps than deportation.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

We must be doing something wrong in our campaign, because collateral damage is usually minor. Of course, it helps that MidGuard's battles often take place in out-of-the-way locations and nobody seems to mind mere property damage when you're saving the world!).

 

Most significant damage I remember was in the team's first ever group battle, when GreenWar (a radical splinter of Greenpeace which thinks Earth First is too moderate) and a team of mercenary supervillains tried to blow up a Norwegian nuclear power plant using a railroad propane car as a fuel-air explosive bomb (IIRC the blast would have been equivalent to about 3000 tons of TNT). Since they couldn't defuse it (nobody with Demolitions), two of the characters picked the tanker up and threw it into a nearby crevasse, where the resulting explosion totally destroyed a railway bridge. However, considering the alternative, that repair was happily covered by the Norwegian government.

[zornwil]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

A team member's magic and another's robotics usually can fix up any damage. Otherwise, the authorities (and insurance) consider damage reasonably on the scale of the crime is okay, such as holes being created in buildings for a bank robbery and small building destruction in apprehending a villain destroying the city.

[Springald Jack]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

As I mentioned in the Registration Act thread, Registered Metas can get very cheap(relatively) insurance through M.A.S.K. Non-registered are often unavailable for taking money from, and so Buisnesses take MPPD (Massive Paranormal Property Damage) Policies in places like Delta City, Victory City, NYC, LA, and Tokoyo.

[Arkham]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

We just had our first major property damage in our last real session.

 

Based in SF, the West Coast Supers had in custody a shapeshifting villain who can take the form of any mid-level super or below, including all powers and skills. In addition to the heros, he is also hunted by two major villains who he really ticked off ( but that's another story ). So, his battle with the heros was being televised live and so of course the other villains show up to to waste him.

During the course of the fight, Amorpheous, the shapeshifter has turned in to a gigantic blob, squashing over a dozen cars during Rush hour in SF on Van Ness, the hero Mauler picks up the pool from the roof of the team's Base and dumps it over the side to disable a villain called Mud Tracker, the Ultra-not-quite-cosmic powered villain Holocaust is constantly surrounded by a 20" radius whirlwind of fire and fear which started a number of building fires, as well as nearly killing numerous bystanders in their cars, and Lady Lava called forth a 16 meter long fissure to swallow hole one the heros, also doing major structural damage to the surroundings.

 

Generally, we handwave what property gets done as being covered by insurance. More often we joke about Mauler who has a public id as a superpowered construction worker and how his crimefighting is a conflict of interests. This time there will probably be some major consequences, but since the only damage the PCs themselves caused was to their own base, it won't be towards them.

[Kenn]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

I've stated that Parahuman Insurance is one of the advantages to belonging to a super team, and that the parahuman Insurance is actually one of the major costs of funding a super team.

 

On the government side of things, there is a presdiential cabinet position Secratary of Parahuman Affairs, who is the person the head of the Central Security Bureau answers too.

[OddHat]

Re: Real world vs. Game world

 

It's complicated in my campaign, and I keep wanting to do an article on it. Roughly, things are only about as good in the campaign world as they are in the real world outside of the military and law enforcement, and only Mad Science keeps things going at all:

 

Q) Why, with all these genius Mad Scientists, do civillian consumers see so few bennefits?

 

A) Irreproducible results and a world wide state of war that has lasted about 100 years.

 

Mad Science is in large part about irreproducible results. Much of it is based on alien technology that we really don't understand, and on the use of alien materials and devices that we can't duplicate or mass produce, starting with what the British were able to salvage after the first War of the Worlds. Further, most of our top minds are dedicated to largely fruitless efforts to backwards enjineer alien technology, rather than developing our own. It's a small total number of minds, but they are our very best, and it puts a damper on development world wide. When they can win a tiny piece of knowledge and find a practical use for it, it will almost always go to the military first and generally stay there. After all, mad men and super criminals are a constant threat, and the economy is always on the edge of colapse. Which brings us to the Wars.

 

Man has known no peace since the first War of the Worlds. The aliens devestated every western nation, and World War I followed. Then came waves of Mad Scientists and freaks (not to mention the Rogue Planet Crisis and the Kong incident) until WWII, and then more super powered lunatics together with yet more alien invasions and giant monsters all the way up to the present. The cost is almost impossible to calculate. Which leads us to the next question:

 

Q) Who pays for all this?

 

A) We all do.

 

Our Superhuman community and Science Heroes can do a lot to rebuild from the constant battles, and emergency services in every industrialized nation are very, very good. Even so, very high personal and business taxes together with massive insurance premiums can bareley keep up with the damage, and themselves are a constant drag on development. Today much of our industrial infrastructure is supported by the Mad Science of the last century. Many ecconomists believe that, without that support, our standard of living would completely colapse.