Point Efficiency vs. Concept

[gewing]

Maybe this is part of why my friends used to say I needed an extra 25 pts "Greg's character disadvantage."

 

I was describing a character idea to a friend, and he disliked it intensely.

 

My idea was a character who was by nature a light/medium brick. He would have something like 40 strength, 50%pd 25% ed damage reduction, a little regen, and athletic normal attributes or so.

 

Because he got tired of the "STING" of getting shot, he made himself a suit of armor. He is pretty smart, and managed to build a low powered set of powered armor. Maybe + 10 str, 10pd/ED armor, IR vision, Radio, and basically conventional weapons. No plasma guns unless he took it from someone. He would probably use something like an xm25 or a barrett Light 50, and have a rocket launcher on his back. A belt fed lmg might be another good weapon.

 

Now the thing is, he tries not to let anyone know that all his powers are not based on the suit.

 

My friend felt this was a ludicrous way to build a character. I just figured it was a relatively fun idea.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

I confess, part of the appeal is when he is captured, and considered harmless...

 

 

Another thought about a character idea: He or she wasn't born super strong. They studied martial arts, and got pretty good. Then they got stronger. Super strength and Aikido?

[mattingly]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

A Powersuit whose secret identity is a Brick? I like it. I'd have no problem with it.

[JmOz]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

I would actualy be concerned about to high of physical defences (your talking about 20 Def + 50%...), & a little concerned about to little damage (Would probably suggest a "Brick MA" Package) but otherwise cool concept

[mikesama]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

My advice, work from concept down to point effiiciency. You can make any character more efficient by making changes but you need to work from the concept first.

 

That being said the concept is fine, we're I GMing the character I'd possibly ask a few questions but the idea would fly with me.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

I say it's an interesting twist on a basic brick character. It's a creative way of building what is essentially "just another brick."

 

I like it.

[Narratio]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

A power suit with a brick inside it who has another secret identity perhaps or perhaps two (lol)? Personally I'll go for concept over efficiency everytime. As the experience points mount up, then you can slowly revise for efficiency. But the idea should take precedence

[Trebuchet]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

I think it's clever. I don't see any problem with it as long as the "in armor" version doesn't exceed campaign defense and/or damage caps (if any). After all, it sounds like over 50% of his powers are inate and not provided by the armor. Losing the suit will still lose him a more substantial portion of his attacks.

 

How is this different in principle from an Energy Blaster buying a bulletproof Spandex costume with a radio and Flash Defense goggles?

[MilkmanDan]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

I think the possibilities with that one are hilarious. "So, Armor Man, now I have you in my clutches, powerless! Hey, wait a minute, put me down! AAAAAAAAAH!"

 

Throw in a few quips like "Ah, you got my armor, but your forgot my secret strength-enhancing earpiece!" Keep a few baubles on your person and the villain will keep thinking they're foci. Until, of course, you wind up captured, naked in a shell, completely shaved and shorn of anything that could be considered strength-enhancing.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

Sounds like you want to be a brick, power armor user, gun bunny and possibly a martial artist all rolled into one. Depending on the attitudes of other people in the group, you might be stepping on toes. "Oh, gewing's playing a brick? Well I won't play a brick then, I'll play a martial artist. What? He's also a martial artist? And the power armor guy? And he has a machine gun!?!?! Is there anything he's isn't doing?"

 

That sort of thing crops up from time to time in groups I have played in so I thought it might be worth mentioning. Myself I like versatile characters and would have no problem with this one.

 

It reminds me of somthing one of my friends does. He has an absolute obsession with power armor and gadgets. Every time he makes a superhero, the guy just has to have a laundry list of specialized equipment that enhances his inate powers or coveres for an existing weakness. He thinks it's idiotic that more supers don't have utility belts and such. I think I've seen at least four character write ups that have the line "No one knows the real source of his powers!" I assume he's itching for the day the suit get's stolen so he can save us all when the villians underestimate him, but it's never actually come up in game...

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

I think the bit that was annoying the friend was the machine gun, etc.

 

It is unlikely to be a dangerous weapon and will most likely be a point sink.

 

 

The rest is nif-tay.

[OddHat]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

Like most characters with a wide range of abilities, he probably won't be quite as good in any one area as a specialist. I don't see that as much of a problem in itself; some of my favorite characters have been point ineficient generalists (Flesh Gordon).

 

Really, he sounds a lot like a classic Silver Avenger.

[bwdemon]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

I agree that this character could step on toes in a team game and might have defenses that are too high. I'm very leery of damage reduction outside of the context of invulnerability to one's own SFX (e.g. fire energy projector has 75% damage reduction v. fire attacks). Plus, with his weapon choices, he may be too much of a killer in a lot of cases. I'm fine with the fake focus thing, though.

 

Somewhat similarly, I tend toward giving my energy projector characters armor of some sort or another. Unless I can justify a force field with the SFX in question, then the character wears OIF body armor to get the requisite level of defense.

[David Johnston]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

Well presumably what the friend found ludicrous was the strength enhancing armour and that has nothing to do with concept versus point efficiency. After all, in "reality" that isn't a +10 str armour. It's a STR 50 armour. So the character spent a huge fortune of money on building an armour that only gives him a slight increase in capability. A suit of armour that gave the same protection but didn't replace his strength could be built for a fraction of the cost.

[mattingly]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

If you want to get really tricky, put a mentalist inside a suit of power armor.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

If you want to get really tricky' date=' put a mentalist inside a suit of power armor. [/quote']

Actually, I created a brick/mentalist NPC (Iron Mike) for my campaign. He doesn't use his mental powers all that much, so everybody thinks he's just a slightly low-powered brick.

[actingkeith]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

You mentioned that your friend thought it was a ludicrous way to build a character, but you didn't share with us what his objection(s) was(were)...

 

I'm confused by your post because I can't understand why anyone would object to such a nice, well conceived concept.

 

The title of your post seems to indicate that maybe you weren't as 'efficient' with your points as you could have been... my answer to that is 'so'?

 

Now, don't get me wrong. I am a point efficiency person. But everything starts with a concept. If your concept is good and solid that's all that really matters. If your good, solid concept lends itself to an 'efficient' character design, hooray for you.

 

And keep in mind that, for the most part, it's the weaknesses and inefficiencies of a character, not its strengths, that tend to make characters playable. The true beauty of (meta/super)humanity is in its flaws, not its perfections.

 

Peace,

 

-k

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

I'm another one that likes to mix archetypes, so I like the character idea. I admit the 40 STR +10 for the suit is a little odd, but I don't think I'd have a problem with it. The machine gun might be more problematic for me, but that depends on the individual campaign.

[McManus]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

I had a character that was a TK brick, but I put him in a powersuit that was specially designed to make it look like all his powers came form the suit. Then I added a few actual powers to the suit. His powers were on an activation role and when they didn’t work I always blamed the suit. It was a really fun character, and none of the other players knew he wasn’t a Powered Armor Guy (PAG).

 

 

Now I am offering a mental illusionist that poses as a gun bunny so the bad guys don’t always attack her first.

 

I like a little misdirection sometimes.

[Zed-F]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

I don't have a problem in principle with mixing archetypes, and indeed it's something I do myself pretty regularily when building characters. I'll agree with the usual stipulations about campaign caps and not stepping on others' toes, however.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

This character is similar:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/MillennialMen/MillennialMen_Allies_GreenKnight.shtml

 

He is a low level mutant that augments his ability to be a creditable super with a power armor suit. He endeavors to maintain the impression that ALL of his abilities come from the suit.

[shaunclinton]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

The problem the friend had is (I'm supposing from the thread title) that the powers could 'efficiently' all be lumped in with the suit for a cheeky OIF limitation on them all.

 

This sort of thing has come up a lot when we play the hero system... the character who takes the mega-limiter on all of his powers (Only Works In City, OIF, Only At Night, etc.) outshines all the other PCs the majority of the time and then every so often becomes pretty rubbish for a bit. Hard one to workaround without disallowing half the limitations in the game.

 

I wouldn't mind so much except one of my players blatantly refuses any character concept with a limitation on his powers!!!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

If you want to get really tricky' date=' put a mentalist inside a suit of power armor. [/quote']

Yah, see previous post....

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

The problem the friend had is (I'm supposing from the thread title) that the powers could 'efficiently' all be lumped in with the suit for a cheeky OIF limitation on them all.

 

This sort of thing has come up a lot when we play the hero system... the character who takes the mega-limiter on all of his powers (Only Works In City, OIF, Only At Night, etc.) outshines all the other PCs the majority of the time and then every so often becomes pretty rubbish for a bit. Hard one to workaround without disallowing half the limitations in the game.

 

I wouldn't mind so much except one of my players blatantly refuses any character concept with a limitation on his powers!!!

 

The problem isn't the limitations, it's the insistence of the players to put them on all of their powers. If all of your powers work "only in the city", expect to have a portion of adventures take place outside the city commensurate with the size of the limitation. If you don't want to be bored with a useless character throughout that period of time, maybe you should build a character who is capable of doing something productive even when his limitations kick in.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

The problem the friend had is (I'm supposing from the thread title) that the powers could 'efficiently' all be lumped in with the suit for a cheeky OIF limitation on them all.

 

This sort of thing has come up a lot when we play the hero system... the character who takes the mega-limiter on all of his powers (Only Works In City, OIF, Only At Night, etc.) outshines all the other PCs the majority of the time and then every so often becomes pretty rubbish for a bit. Hard one to workaround without disallowing half the limitations in the game.

 

I wouldn't mind so much except one of my players blatantly refuses any character concept with a limitation on his powers!!!

People that rely too heavily on Foci for all their powers typically prove to not be used to their foci being specifically targetted and damaged / destroyed. If the downsides of foci are not enforced then yeah its a great way to save points.

 

Personally I strongly encourage players to not make their characters completely dependent on foci so that they don't suffer from "Sauron Syndrome".

[Guest Cougar]

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept

 

Kind of reminds me of the hodge-podge characters that you could end up with when rolling them up in V&V.

 

I expect to catch a lot of flack for this, but what you're talking about isn't a character concept. It's a gaming gimmick.

 

You're trying to cover all your bases (as you say, part of the appeal is the idea that if he's captured, he's still uber capable) and, from the sound of it, ending up with a character who doesn't really have a core concept. He just has a lot of powers.

 

Put it this way -- while it might seem logical, in 'real world' terms for Cyclops to get himself a nifty suit of high tech armor to protect him while he's zapping away with his eyebeam, he doesn't. Why? Because superhero concepts tend towards simplicity and cohesion, not covering every contingency.

 

Most characters in the source material could benefit from using tech devices to boost their abilities in one way or another and most of them have access to such. Captain America could certainly utilize some sort of "repulsor ray" gun. He's a highly skilled soldier after all. 'Realistically' it would make more sense than him throwing away his protection to hit attackers at range. He doesn't, because it doesn't really fit with his concept.

 

As long as your GM is cool with it, there's no reason why you can't buy your powers however you want. To me, though, the lack of efficiency isn't as bothersome as the lack of a strong, streamlined concept (at least as you've described it here).

 

Paul