McCoy Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Yes and no. We have a lot of people with a giant stick up their backside who write "grammar guides" that purport to elucidate the "proper" rules of language who have no clue what they are talking about and come off as completely self absorbed and ethno/ego-centric arses. Things like "cannot end with a preposition" or "double negatives" aren't descriptive rules (rules that show how language is actually used) but prescriptive ones governing how someone things it should be used. Indeed, in latin, it was Impossible to end a well formed sentence with a preposition or break an infinitive AND people who thought latin was the best language saw that natural speakers of English didn't follow these descriptive rules of latin and thus said they were using ENGLISH wrong. That is the most stupid thing ever. If language is actually being used wrong - you don't have to tell the speaker - they already know. That said, grammar features, just like any other features of a language, change over time for all extant languages. We went from a highly synthetic language (one that uses a lot of glob on pieces to create ever more complex single words) to a very isolated language (one where ever more words are used to convey complex meanings). This has some influence from other languages but is largely self contained in English (it is hard to point to a grammar form and go "That's French") Also, this is one that annoys me: the comparison of "double negatives" to "multiplication." This appeal to similarity is how we get the "two negatives make a positive" rule. And the force of mathematics is so strong that people don't question it. But they forget to question the appeal to Multiplication in the first place. In most languages that use double negatives (including many forms of English), the comparison is more like addition. Two negative numbers added together make and even more commanding negative number. I can't get no satisfaction really means "I really and truly am not getting satisfaction". La Rose. Can't really apply a single rule to double negatives. Often it means a more emphatic negative, sometimes it does mean a positive. The "don't end a sentence with a preposition" is my pet peeve, as well as pretentious pedantic nonsense. Counter examples are found in Chaucer, Shakespeare, and the King James translation of the Bible. What examples of English are more venerable than Shakespeare and the Bible? English is a Germanic language, it makes absolutely no sense to crucify it on a Romantic grammar. I absolutely refuse to recast a sentence because it is not how Julius Caesar would have said it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster I've heard this thing about borrowing a great deal going back to a history of the English language published in the 1980s that concluded that this propensity was what made English the awesomerest language ever. Which, I'm sorry. Other awesomerest things ever: my hometown; my home province; my favourite sport; my favourite fast food chain. Seeing a pattern here? It's the "my." And it doth occur to me that when native English speakers write books about the history of the English language, they're writing about their language. So, not to be one of those instinctive anti-homers or anything, I'm requesting a recount of borrowings, in case it turns out that Dutch or Tagalog or Yoruba in fact turn out to be even awesomerestest than English. I recall reading a novelist who had learned English not only as a second language, but after being a published author (I want to say Popescu, but could be wrong). He said something like after learning English, he didn't see how he ever wrote without it. In his native language, if his characters were going to jump they had to jump; in English they could leap, vault, hop, hurdle, skip, all with subtile variations in connotation. I have heard that English is the only language that has, or needs, a reference like a thesaurus. It is the world's most popular second language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Been meaning to do this for a while. Think I'm going to need it a lot during Primary season. [ATTACH=CONFIG]40490[/ATTACH] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Been meaning to do this for a while. Think I'm going to need it a lot during Primary season. [ATTACH=CONFIG]40490[/ATTACH] I think it applies to Secondary and Tertiary seasons too. Lucius Alexander "You hang out with that palindromedary all the time? Isn't that embarrassing?" "Yeah you'd think so, but fortunately the palindromedary doesn't seem to mind most of the time." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"V" Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster The "don't end a sentence with a preposition" is my pet peeve, as well as pretentious pedantic nonsense. Counter examples are found in Chaucer, Shakespeare, and the King James translation of the Bible. What examples of English are more venerable than Shakespeare and the Bible? English is a Germanic language, it makes absolutely no sense to crucify it on a Romantic grammar. I absolutely refuse to recast a sentence because it is not how Julius Caesar would have said it. Churchill on being corrected for ending a sentence with a preposition refuted it wonderfully "This is the kind of nonsense up with which I will not put." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Churchill on being corrected for ending a sentence with a preposition refuted it wonderfully "This is the kind of nonsense up with which I will not put." That is what I was going to post. And today is the perfect day for you to post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Been meaning to do this for a while. Think I'm going to need it a lot during Primary season. [ATTACH=CONFIG]40490[/ATTACH] I regret that I can't Rep you twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytus Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Actually we borrowed a fair amount of grammar. "Educated" individuals writing grammar primers for the new and growing middle class included a lot of Latin grammar which is why we have stupidity like so called "double negatives" being "incorrect" and "illogical" even though two of the three types of double negative are actually used regularly and considered correct... Reminds me of this old joke... A linguistics professor was lecturing to his class one day. "In English," he said, "A double negative forms a positive. In some languages, though, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative. However, there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative." A voice from the back of the room piped up, "Yeah, right." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Querysphinx Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Reminds me of this old joke... A linguistics professor was lecturing to his class one day. "In English," he said, "A double negative forms a positive. In some languages, though, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative. However, there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative." A voice from the back of the room piped up, "Yeah, right." Heh. That reminds me of a quote I put up on my board for a writing class. "Sarcasm is not a grammatical construct." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Is this the twilight of their careers? (Spoilered For Language) [ATTACH=CONFIG]40492[/ATTACH] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster I recall reading a novelist who had learned English not only as a second language, but after being a published author (I want to say Popescu, but could be wrong). He said something like after learning English, he didn't see how he ever wrote without it. In his native language, if his characters were going to jump they had to jump; in English they could leap, vault, hop, hurdle, skip, all with subtile variations in connotation. I have heard that English is the only language that has, or needs, a reference like a thesaurus. It is the world's most popular second language. Incidently, if you're keen on the subject, I'd recommend Planet Word a BBC series. And yeah, it has an English bent to it, but they ask a french actor the difference in performing Shakespeare in English vs French (he sides with English) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Incidently' date=' if you're keen on the subject, I'd recommend Planet Word a BBC series. And yeah, it has an English bent to it, but they ask a french actor the difference in performing Shakespeare in English vs French (he sides with English)[/quote'] Well, Shakespeare was written in English. Wonder if they would have used a French author if the response would have been the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Moliére, fr'ex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Well' date=' Shakespeare was written in English. Wonder if they would have used a French author if the response would have been the same.[/quote'] Good Point. But...still, the french do Shakespeare don't they? So his plays went beyond his language, they perform them in both. I for one liked Three Men and a Baby better in the French version. But that's nowhere near relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Moliére' date=' fr'ex.[/quote'] This isn't about teeth, man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Celt Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster More Firefly motivation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster My sister posted this on facebook, but I approve the message: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster My sister posted this on facebook, but I approve the message: Two questions: 1) Is that your dog? ...and... 2) Did you ever have them fixed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Two questions: 1) Is that your dog? ...and... 2) Did you ever have them fixed? Getting fixed is probably why he/she is trying to drive off. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster I found this on another discussion board, so I can't take credit for this. But I think you guys would enjoy it anyway. [ATTACH=CONFIG]40525[/ATTACH] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escafarc Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster I found this on another discussion board, so I can't take credit for this. But I think you guys would enjoy it anyway. [ATTACH=CONFIG]40525[/ATTACH] So it's sort of like the humps on a camel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZilla Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster So it's sort of like the humps on a camel? [ATTACH=CONFIG]40529[/ATTACH] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Spoilered for language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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